I don't want wood shooting photos....

[hoffy]

OK folks, a couple of weeks ago, I had my heart set on buying a Press type camera with a range finder.

Then I decided that LF wasn't for me.

But, for some unknown reason, I keep on getting drawn back to the marvelous work that is displayed on this forum. I also am very interested in trying some alternative processes, one day.

So, LF (4x5 to start with) is back on the agenda and so is the search for a camera. I have had a think about a rangefinder and have heeded most peoples advice and have decided to give one a miss, which leads me to 'what camera should I buy'?

OK, these are my parameters:


Field camera over a monorail
Rotating Graphloc type back
Prefer not to purchase a wood camera
Something that I could use for portrait work as well
4x5


I am well aware of the Toyo 45 range. I am also aware of the camera's discussed on the front page of this website.
What I am not aware of is what other candidates are out there that would fit the above requirements.

I have come across a handful of Wista 45D's on Ebay, as well as a couple of Rittreck-views. I have seen a small amount of discussion on these camera's, but not an awful lot.
How are these in the grand scheme of things? Will these be camera's that I will outgrow quickly? How are things like replacing Bellows on these? At this point in time, I am looking at around $500 to $600 to get going (one lens, one board, a couple of holders and a camera).

Any advice more then welcome!

Cheers

[Doremus Scudder]

hoffy,

Not to sound curmudgeonly, but why are you asking for advice when you have already decided what camera you want. You describe your desired features very exactly, so just go out and get a camera of that type that fits your budget. The differences between cameras that have the features you want are inconsequential.

As for outgrowing a camera... I still have the very first view camera I ever purchased, a Graphic View II, and it is still as serviceable as the day it was made (which was a long time before I acquired it...).

I have both metal monorail and wood folding cameras. I carry lightweight wooden folders in the field. I like the Toyo 45s (the Wista metal folders are similar as others of this type), but they are just to heavy for me. My Wista DX is just over 3 pounds; my Horseman Woodman is even lighter. Metal field cameras are 6 pounds and up. But, since you don't want a wooden camera, I won't recommend one.

My advice: get a Toyo 45. It is a great camera, you won't outgrow it for what it was intended to do (if you need other features for whatever reason, you need another camera, likely a monorail), it is well-built and will last you a lifetime. Buy used. Then if you don't like it, you can sell it for about what you paid for it.

Best,

Doremus

[sully75]

Chamonix 45 n-2 is a great camera. Some wood but a lot of metal. Regardless, it's awesome.

Oops. A bit out of your price range but something to keep in mind.

The thing about LF cameras is that as long as the standards are paralell, they are all kind of the same camera. Just a box with a lens and film. So...you can't really outgrow them. Some do more than others, but all of them do the basic functions. Sometimes people are better off with no movements.

[Fred L]

I have to ask...why is wood not an option ?

[IanG]

I have to ask...why is wood not an option ?

After using a Wista 45DX for 26 years I'd say bwhy not, what's your aversion ?

On the other hand the Toyo 45A is a good camera and was somethiong I had in mind until I found a Super Graphic at a bargain price.

Ian

[hoffy]

Maybe I am being a bit anal, but I think something a bit more substantial would take a bit more punishment. I am also thinking I should be able to get something metal a tad cheaper then a wood camera.

But, yes you are right - in the end they are just boxes with holes in them.

[Len Middleton]

Maybe I am being a bit anal, but I think something a bit more substantial would take a bit more punishment. I am also thinking I should be able to get something metal a tad cheaper then a wood camera.

But, yes you are right - in the end they are just boxes with holes in them.

Hmm, metal not wood camera, ... have you met Frank?

Like many here, I have both. and therefore I am agnostic with regards to the construction materials provided they are fit for use.

I have no doubt that my metal body Linhof Technika could handle a great deal of abuse, however it will have to be returned to the manufacturer or their representatives for proper repairs.

While my wood 8x10 and 8x20 cameras would not be able to take the same amount of abuse, I know I could send them to Richard Ritter (or likely many others) for effective repairs.

With the advent of advanced short run and prototyping techniques, the situation is much different now than before. But I think that you might find that materials used are more tied to preferred manufacturing techniques of the companies (e.g. Linhof => cast and machined) and the volumes produced (i.e. cannot write off the casting dies over short run, therefore hand crafted wood often solution).

Hope that helps,

Len

[Jim Jones]

A sturdy and usually inexpensive all-metal press camera is the Burke & James. It has the advantage of better front movements than Anniversary or Pacemaker series Speed Graphics, a revolving back, and the once ubiquitous 4" square lens boards. The Speed Graphic has the edge in build quality despite the wooden chassis in most models, the Graflok back in some versions, and is part of a more complete system. The Super Graphic might fit the OP's criteria better than any other press camera. Some models of Speed Graphic also have the advantage of a focal plane shutter, facilitating the use of barrel lenses. For $500 and patient shopping, one can get both a basic press and field camera outfit. Compatibility of lens boards is desirable in an arsenal of LF cameras.

[John Kasaian]

Get a Linhof Technika if you've got the $$. It's Sturdy with a capital "S" and the long time weapon of choice for many fine photographers.

[E. von Hoegh]

Get a Linhof Technika if you've got the $$. It's Sturdy with a capital "S" and the long time weapon of choice for many fine photographers.

Yes, that is essentially what the OP specified. Too bad they don't come in mahogany...

[Len Middleton]

Sorry, cannot resist your thread title...

If indeed you do not want wood shooting photos, then on this site you might find one of eddie's car shooting video... :confused:

I seem to remember a Subaru wagon being the highlighted victim in one... :cool:

[Len Middleton]

Buy a Linhof Technika and don't look back.

And I expect that many of us here (at least myself) have not looked back after that decision...

[SpeedGraphicMan]

Check out this steal of a deal!

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=11891389

[E. von Hoegh]

And I expect that many of us here (at least myself) have not looked back after that decision...

I know I haven't. Not only have I had it since the late 1980s, it was my first and is my only 4x5.

[Ari]

I have a TK45 and a Wista RF, and I'm considering the purchase of a metal 8x10, so you might say that I prefer metal cameras.
I like the stability and precision of metal; it comes at the cost of added weight, though not too much more.
I've found the Crown Graphics and their ilk to be fine cameras, but quite large once you see them in the flesh.
A Technika is great to own, I've had two, but they are expensive.
Toyo field cameras are very nice, not too dear, but some models have a fair amount of plastic parts, and repairs from Toyo are not cheap.
Wista fields are excellent compromises, not too expensive (but more so than a Toyo), all-metal, rugged and precise.

[C. D. Keth]

There's an all metal canham in the classifieds right now. It's selling for about 1/3 of its new price.

[hoffy]

Sorry, cannot resist your thread title...

If indeed you do not want wood shooting photos, then on this site you might find one of eddie's car shooting video... :confused:

I seem to remember a Subaru wagon being the highlighted victim in one... :cool:
I'm suprised it took this long for someone to pick it up...some days I think I have the maturity of a 14 year old with a stack of Hustlers...

ANYHO... Back to the REAL subject!

Does anyone have any opinions on Wista 45 D's?

[polyglot]

You can all blame me for turning hoffy off wood since I have a 45A. The first camera I used was a Shen Hao and suspect that if my tripod had fallen over with it on top (as has happened once with the Toyo - family... what do you do), the wooden camera would no longer be with us whereas the metal shows no signs of damage. I'd be prepared to believe that a Chamonix or Ebony would be more rugged but I've never seen one in the flesh.

Has anyone seen a modern (i.e. Graflok) Technika that's affordable? They seem to be $thousands.

[Stephanie Brim]

There's an all metal canham in the classifieds right now. It's selling for about 1/3 of its new price.

Either we're *all* broke or everyone's looking for larger now because that should have sold quite a while ago. It was a good price in the first place.

[C. D. Keth]

Either we're *all* broke or everyone's looking for larger now because that should have sold quite a while ago. It was a good price in the first place.

If I needed a second 4x5 camera, I would have been all over that like stink on sh!t!

[cosmicexplosion]

Maybe he plans on taking photos by throwing his camera down cliff. So the stair comparison wasn't really fair.

I mean really

My hundred year old 2d is still kicking

This seems like a fair question but really it's photography
Not gi joe training camp

Your not on your belly in mud getting shot at in naam

Your putting it on a tripod and shooting pretty little things
So you can show your mummy

It's like any thing that is made or from nature.

If you abuse it it will break

Unless you get a plate steel
Camera with bullet proof glass that weighs a ton

Get real

Just get a freaken camera and get a robust photo that won't break

As Ritter said

You can repair a woody in the field or a carpenter can from any where

But a metal is proprietary product and may not be made any more

But if your young and ride a bmx and want to throw your bag down at your mates coz life sux

And every thing you own is coated in rubber water and shock proof

Then I would advise you to take up digital.

[hoffy]

Really? That is how you encourage people to get into Large Format photography?

But, yes, you are right. In the end, it is just a box with a hole at on end.

[Noah A]

I'm not sure why the wood camera fan boys jump all over anyone who says they don't want a wood camera, but it happens all the time...please don't get discouraged. You will find some good advice here if you filter out the noise.

I also prefer metal cameras. I'm not saying wood cameras are bad, they're just not for me. I've tried a few cameras over the years and I think you can't really go wrong with a Wista or Toyo metal field. Of course, the Linhof Technika is amazing, but it's out of your stated budget. You may find an old Tech III for a good price, but you also may want to figure in the cost of a CLA and/or a new bellows, and those aren't cheap.

I started with a Wista VX and it was a great camera. It was lacking a bit in movements that I needed for urban landscape work with wide lenses, but for most kinds of work it would be great. It was very solid, precise and durable. From what I understand the older Wista metal fields are very similar.

With the Wista you'll need to drop the bed if you need lens fall. I believe the Toyo metal fields have some lens fall, but I think the Toyos have less lens rise.

Will these cameras be limiting? I don't think so, but it depends on what you shoot and what lenses you use. For portraits, landscapes, etc., you should be fine with most metal field cameras. If you shoot architecture, interiors, urban work or other things that require extensive movements with wideangle lenses, then they may be limiting. A monorail may be more suitable for those purposes. Good luck!

[Mark Barendt]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?86533-Camera-shake-Toyo-vs-Wista-metal-field-cameras

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?70330-Tell-me-about-the-Wista-45D

[Len Middleton]

It might have been easier to make a decision on camera material and model before you asked, but seeing you did you certainly have your choice of opinions, AND we are an opinionated lot... :D

There are many arguments between wood and metal (cold weather use, precision, appearance, weight, etc.), and they will be a personal preference you will need to weigh.

If you are looking for a logical but somewhat absurd evaluation for the robustness and repairability between the two,, then:
1. If you think you would break a camera if it is wood, but not if metal, then get a metal one.
2. If you think you might break a camera even if it is metal, then get a wood one as it would be easier and less expensive to repair.

See it really is simple... :cool:

[Mark Barendt]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?97246-FS-Wista-VX-kit-800&highlight=Wista

[Vaughn]

If wanting to stick with metal, than a Gowland Pocket View 4x5 would be a, well, lets say a unique choice. Just a few pieces of metal, a monorail, a set of bellows, and a bunch of movements. I love mine, and tho I bought mine new for $220 a long time ago, they probably now are out of your budget. They are not built like a Sherman tank -- more like those funny things they called' jeeps'. Almost too light to do much damage to itself if it bumped something. Mine is 2.5 pounds with the 150mm attached).

Most other models of the Pocket View were just a little heavier as people wanted more standard features...Gowland changed the design as he went along, as well as matching the customer's needs. Mine was bought through Calumet who sold one of the simplier and lighter designs with just a 12.5" two-part rail. Cute little thing! Could drive some folks nuts who require a rock (as in heavy) solid camera and zero marks.

Third camera down:

http://www.petergowland.com/camera/

But it helped me to take some nice images...

Falls
Franz Josef Glacier, NZ
16x20 Silver Gelatin Print

[hoffy]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?97246-FS-Wista-VX-kit-800&highlight=Wista
Cheers - I don't quite have enough cash in reserve yet.

[Mark Barendt]

If wanting to stick with metal, than a Gowland Pocket View 4x5 would be a, well, lets say a unique choice. Just a few pieces of metal, a monorail, a set of bellows, and a bunch of movements. I love mine, and tho I bought mine new for $220 a long time ago, they probably now are out of your budget. They are not built like a Sherman tank -- more like those funny things they called' jeeps'. Almost too light to do much damage to itself if it bumped something. Mine is 2.5 pounds with the 150mm attached).

Most other models of the Pocket View were just a little heavier as people wanted more standard features...Gowland changed the design as he went along, as well as matching the customer's needs. Mine was bought through Calumet who sold one of the simplier and lighter designs with just a 12.5" two-part rail. Cute little thing! Could drive some folks nuts who require a rock (as in heavy) solid camera and zero marks.

Third camera down:

http://www.petergowland.com/camera/

But it helped me to take some nice images...

Falls
Franz Josef Glacier, NZ
16x20 Silver Gelatin Print

I do like the idea of that camera. Being able to pack small and light is great.

I was pleasantly amazed when I got my Toyo 45A II (when compared to my Calumet CC 400 style camera). Instantly I could pack a 4x5 kit in the same bag I was used to packing my 35mm kit in.

It is amazing how many options there are.

[gdi]

hoffy,
If you have an interest in a nice Super Graphic in the $475 range PM me. Everything is there w/ 135lens on the right board with the right cam; all electrics work properly, It is not a beauty queen, but it's solid and recently CLA'd (body and lens).

[Peter York]

The Meridian 45B is cheap on Ebay (but rarer than others), and has all you want except the Graflok back. A good review of it is here:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/meridian/meridian.html

[Scott Davis]

I'll put in another vote for the Canham, either style (wood or metal). The Canham DLC is an amazing piece of engineering, and I can vouch personally for Keith's customer service - long story short I bought second-(third?fourth?)hand one of his 5x7 wood field cameras, a very early production model that was at least a decade old at the time I bought it. A part did break on the back (a design flaw since remedied), and he sent me a whole new back as a replacement at no charge. I don't know of any other camera makers who would provide that level of customer support, especially something that old and not the original owner.

[nonuniform]

Maybe I am being a bit anal, but I think something a bit more substantial would take a bit more punishment. I am also thinking I should be able to get something metal a tad cheaper then a wood camera.

But, yes you are right - in the end they are just boxes with holes in them.

Funny. My Wista DX has been with me since 1985, and it's a survivor, let me tell you. I've got my eye on an Ebony, if ever I have the cash, but usually life gets in the way!

[E. von Hoegh]

Funny. My Wista DX has been with me since 1985, and it's a survivor, let me tell you. I've got my eye on an Ebony, if ever I have the cash, but usually life gets in the way!

And when Non's Wista came to him, my Deardorff was already 35 years old. Still going, too. :)

[nonuniform]

And when Non's Wista came to him, my Deardorff was already 35 years old. Still going, too. :)

Too true! I'm always thinking about an 8x10 Deardorff, but never quite make the jump.

[John Kasaian]

Keep in mind that there is a danger to using metal cameras in cold weather, as this you tube demonstrates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XlPwsmkPHI

[Mark Barendt]

Keep in mind that there is a danger to using metal cameras in cold weather, as this you tube demonstrates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XlPwsmkPHI

Speaking from experience John?

[E. von Hoegh]

Keep in mind that there is a danger to using metal cameras in cold weather, as this you tube demonstrates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XlPwsmkPHI

I was hoping it was of someone with Linhof frozen to their toungue.

[Len Middleton]

I was hoping it was of someone with Linhof frozen to their tongue.

EvH,

That is what the leatherette covering is there to minimize...

[Lachlan 717]

EvH,

That is what the leatherette covering is there to minimize...

You can get leatherette tongue covers?

[Len Middleton]

You can get leatherette tongue covers?

Lachlan,

Only via special order...

Do be aware though it might affect your elocution, especially if you get one "off the rack" and it does not fit well... :D

[premortho]

Yes, I quite agree...if you have bushels of money to throw around, buy a Linhof. If you just, want to take pictures.... well, I just use a Burke and James Speed Press 45 on the tripod. And a Speed Graphic hand held. The B&J has many more front movements than the Speeders, but the Speed Graphic is easier to use, handheld.

[E. von Hoegh]

Yes, I quite agree...if you have bushels of money to throw around, buy a Linhof. If you just, want to take pictures.... well, I just use a Burke and James Speed Press 45 on the tripod. And a Speed Graphic hand held. The B&J has many more front movements than the Speeders, but the Speed Graphic is easier to use, handheld.

An older Linhof can be had quite reasonably, if you are patient.

[hoffy]

OK, If you had a choice between a Rittreck-View or a Wista D, which would you choose (assuming they were in the same condition)?

[John Kasaian]

OK, If you had a choice between a Rittreck-View or a Wista D, which would you choose (assuming they were in the same condition)?

Deardorff!:rolleyes:

[Kirk Gittings]

I don't want wood shooting photos....

I don't worry about having wood when I'm shooting photos. While a potential great image turns me on in many ways, its not in that way........

[Alan Gales]

I don't worry about having wood when I'm shooting photos. While a potential great image turns me on in many ways, its not in that way........

If you shot nudes instead of architecture you might have a different experience. :)

[Kirk Gittings]

I guess I wood in that circumstance.......:)

[E. von Hoegh]

I guess I wood in that circumstance.......:)

It wood give you something to hang the darkcloth on.

[Kirk Gittings]

:)......

that wood be embarrassing......

[E. von Hoegh]

:)......

that wood be embarrassing......

Might give passersby a novel conversation point. ;)