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mityaiko
22-Nov-2012, 10:16
Happy Thanksgiving!
I am a developer of Intervallo timer that I created for myself as I didn`t find a good one for me in app store. Now I`d like to share it with you - itunes.apple.com/us/app/intervallo/id551457908?mt=8
It is free for a limited time. You will be able to create advanced intervals with sound schemes you want for convenient agitation process. Using Intervallo you can divide development time into intervals with autostart and assign them individual sound schemes for agitation. It is possible to create kind of a progressive sound schemes for progressive/regressive agitation.
Any comments, questions or reviews on appstore are welcome!

fecaleagle
5-Dec-2012, 09:44
Can the timer be run in the background with the screen off? I currently put my iphone into airplane mode, switch off wi-fi, and play an audio recording ("minute counter") in the background with the screen off. I will happily buy this app for 0.99 if you can tell me that the timer can run in the background with the screen off. Actually, I will buy it anyway and just post the results here, seeing as you signed up here only to advertise your product.

fecaleagle
5-Dec-2012, 11:17
The app will not run in the background (with the screen off) on a non-jailbroken iPhone. That makes it pretty much useless to me as a development timer. The timer continues to run, but the audible alerts stop sounding. Also, the app is no longer free.

Thanks for working on it, anyway.
William

mityaiko
6-Dec-2012, 01:42
Hello William,
Will this trick work for you if you run a timer in "never sleep" mode and just place the phone face down?

I am sorry, I couldn`t find a way to edit thread topic and remove free from its name.

welly
6-Dec-2012, 01:56
The app will not run in the background (with the screen off) on a non-jailbroken iPhone. That makes it pretty much useless to me as a development timer. The timer continues to run, but the audible alerts stop sounding. Also, the app is no longer free.

Thanks for working on it, anyway.
William

There is no "also". It's $0.99. It's as good as free.

bracan
15-Dec-2012, 10:06
Bought it! Nice one:)

mityaiko
16-Dec-2012, 10:35
Thank you :)

jose angel
2-Feb-2013, 06:46
Mityaiko, I`m sorry, after buying it I found I dislike it. It is certainly not for free, so I feel the need of writing it here, because is money wasted for a photographer.

As a timer for fun, it works. But I was looking for a real working timer for film developing. This timer only let you to set the full time, with a quite simple sound scheme... it is too much simple for most tasks.
Let me tell you how we work:

1.We need a full time timer, we set the full developing time. Here it is ok.
2.It΄d be nice to set the initial agitation time, it use to be less than one minute, it works.
3.Then, every minute (or two, or three or five), we need a reminder sound to agitate the tank. A warning sound previous to the "beep" would be great, but not necessary. Your timer can be set upto a maximum of 1 minute. It is useless for those who agitate the drum every two minutes, or three... it doesn`t obviously work with a "stand development" technique.
4.Before the end, there should be a different warning sound, and the final beep.
5.Etc.

We use to work with running water, (print or film washers), maybe with music. The beeps are not audible under this conditions. The timer should let the user to choose another more sharp or recognizable sound.

That huge development charts/lists are simply useless. Don`t waste memory and buttons trying to offer a list that nobody will follow (maybe a novice). There isn`t even an index to find anything...same for the other lists (cooking times).

Well, please know that there is no pun intended. Just to let you know that your product has a nice looking, it`s a good idea, but it needs to be refined and specialized. Maybe you can fix this issues.

mityaiko
3-Feb-2013, 02:56
Thank you for the comment but let me clarify some basics. If the sound scheme that consists of 3 variables (sound duration 'at start', sound duration 'before the end' and 'sound every') you can assign to an interval is too simple for your task you can split the timer into intervals or even "sub intervals" and set Start interval to "Auto". In this case each of "sub intervals" will have individual sound scheme and the group of them will form the timer. You can create individual interval and not just use sound duration at start for initial agitation. Also intervals have sharp/recogniazable sound at the end and they should help if you work in a noisy environment. Moreover, Intervallo allows to set a delay between intervals (for example you want to pour water out and wash hands and you know you need 30 seconds for this) or start next interval manually. I can help you to create a timer with intervallo if you describe your process. As to presets, they are there to let customers ideas and help to create their own timers.

I understand that Intervallo is not ideal but it definitely is not for fun and yes I am working on updates, for example upcoming version will have timer sharing option.

jose angel
3-Feb-2013, 04:47
Thank you very much for your atention.

Yesterday I tried to add intervals, but I was only able to add just one... after that, the "add interval" box was missing... only the "save" box. Maybe I did something wrong. I tried it several times&ways, no success. I`ll try it again.

For example, I`ll develop an FP4+ film in Perceptol 1+3; it takes (depending en the max. density needed), say 14`30``. Agitation is two times each two minutes.
1. I have to set 30`` (seconds) of initial, continuous agitation , plus
2. Seven sets of 2`(minutes), each set will receive an agitation (five secons or two inversions).

In the step #1, having a beeping sound for the initial continuous agitation will be great, specially if we need to set e.g. a first interval of 45``(imagine a 5`45`` process, where the first 15`` are for continuous agitation). At the end of the first interval, the warning sound and final beep, like on every interval.

An audible warning beep five seconds before the end of each interval would be essential. A diferentiated beep at the end of the latest interval would be nice, too.

The interval way should work, but it`s a bit of pain for those who use very dilute developers, as the development times goes to more than twenty minutes. And it should be set for several densities and films... (I only use two films, one developer, and up to three different developing times for each film. You may expect people will want to have up to five development times for each film and developer combination (N-2, N-1, N, N+1, N+2), and several developer and film combinations).

If the timer is easy to setup, no problem. We can set the timer every time we put the film on the tank. But if the setting process is too complicated, it needs to be stored in the memory; this is my case, I`ll try to do it again.

I`m so pleased you`re here to solve this issues. Sadly, I know nothing about computers, so I (we) need to encourage you to made a perfect darkroom developing timer. Reality is that pocket devices are great for this task, I have some darkroom timers but my most used one has always been (still is!) the one I have on my Palm devices... now the iPhone is the perfect replacement. Thanks a lot, sincerely.

jose angel
3-Feb-2013, 15:07
I have checked that I was wrong, the intervals can be perfectly used in the app.

With this method, the timer can be used as an "advanced" film developer timer, but I see two issues; first, the total developing time is never displayed, nor the total remaining time, so you have to calculate it by checking the intervals.
In the other side, the warning and final beeps are perfect to my taste, sharp and audible. I have noticed that when the iPhone screen is shut off, the interval end beeps are stil audible (I think the "warning" beeps aren`t, but I may be wrong).
If you have to perform e.g., a 20 minutes process, with agitation every two minutes, the setting process can be a bit annoying. Well, it`s true that once all the processes has been set and saved, you can use them; not so elegant, but works.

I think the "normal" way of setting Intervallo is much better, easier and clear. The issue here is that the sound scheme is too limited. The "At Start" beeps can be used, but IMHO are just a whisper, hardly audible with a tap running water. The "Before the End" beeps are just perfect. The "Sound Every" beep is useless... too soft, inaudible for this darkroom task. The "Alarm Sound" is right, but not so... "conclusive?".

IMHO, just increase the "Sound Every" time period to minutes or even hours, with a more clear warning and alarm sound for the agitation process (four beeps like the "Before the End" ones and a distinctive finfth one), set them to work even with the iPhone screen shut off, add a distinctive final alarm sound, and that`s all. All other features can be used or not, but at least, the film developing task will be covered at 100%.

mityaiko
14-Mar-2013, 13:22
If the timer is easy to setup, no problem. We can set the timer every time we put the film on the tank. But if the setting process is too complicated, it needs to be stored in the memory; this is my case, I`ll try to do it again.


All timers you created are stored on List tab. You can start it immediately or just save it to the list and start when you need it.

Intervallo v1.2 has just been released. Now you can share you timer and send it to another iOS device via email.
To add received timer by email just open the email on Mail app and click the link.
:)

mityaiko
14-Mar-2013, 13:36
IMHO, just increase the "Sound Every" time period to minutes or even hours, with a more clear warning and alarm sound for the agitation process (four beeps like the "Before the End" ones and a distinctive finfth one), set them to work even with the iPhone screen shut off, add a distinctive final alarm sound, and that`s all. All other features can be used or not, but at least, the film developing task will be covered at 100%.

Thank you for the comment very much. I really appreciate it.
Actually it is not an easy task to make sound works when display is off because of some limitations and restrictions assigned by Apple.
I am working on this and I hope this feature will be added to upcoming updates.

fecaleagle
6-Aug-2013, 11:26
Thank you for the comment very much. I really appreciate it.
Actually it is not an easy task to make sound works when display is off because of some limitations and restrictions assigned by Apple.
I am working on this and I hope this feature will be added to upcoming updates.

I have spent some time developing apps for iPhone and although, granted, Apple does not make it incredibly easy, it certainly can be done without too much hassle. I understand there are differences between apps that continuously play music in the background and ones that sound events while running in the background, but it seems reasonably straightforward to me. Google? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10429204/how-to-handle-background-audio-playing-while-ios-device-is-locked-or-on-another

Jac@stafford.net
6-Aug-2013, 14:50
Has anyone tried Massive Dev Chart Timer app for iPhone?

rcmartins
6-Aug-2013, 15:17
Has anyone tried Massive Dev Chart Timer app for iPhone?
I used it for several months but soon found it too limiting. Please bear in mind that what I am going to report is my experience from using it over a year ago, now.
The Massive Dev Chart forces a certain sequence with predefined intervals which can only be truly used for B&W development, and one that follows a "by the book" strategy since it forces a sequence. Once I started experimenting with development by creating agitation patterns I got infuriatingly mad with the darn thing since I could not program different agitation intervals nor different durations for each agitation (I know, everyone has its quirks :) ). At first I could live with that - after all is just a question of remembering. But then I started also to use multiple stop baths and a specific wash procedure that required multiple water replacements rather than continuous wash. Now the program was completely and utterly useless. Besides, I never agreed with the times it proposed neither did I use the developers it so diligently provided. Started doing everything using a single clock and just being alert during the whole process. When I started fooling around with C-41 and RA-4 I needed a timer. I started looking for timers and found one that kind of suits my needs: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/labtimer/id292202454?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo%3D4. On the iphone it only has 4 timers, but are easily configurable. But, on the ipad, it has 4x4=16 timers. YES!!!! Now I could program any sequence that I wanted. It has served me nicely. There are several things I would like it to have, like being able to switch off the screen and block any unwanted screen popup, and the ability to save sequences of timers. While I don't do things by the book, I do like repeatability like anyone else :). The best thing is that labtimer is really free, whereas Intervallo which states in the thread title as being free costs now 1.8€ (probably $2), and can be used on the iphone for long exposures in the field and on the ipad for all chemical endeavours. That luminous screen I really could do without...but then...they weren't thinking of guys like us when they wrote it.

Light Guru
6-Aug-2013, 15:57
I used it for several months but soon found it too limiting. Please bear in mind that what I am going to report is my experience from using it over a year ago, now.
The Massive Dev Chart forces a certain sequence with predefined intervals which can only be truly used for B&W development, and one that follows a "by the book" strategy since it forces a sequence. Once I started experimenting with development by creating agitation patterns I got infuriatingly mad with the darn thing since I could not program different agitation intervals nor different durations for each agitation (I know, everyone has its quirks :) ). At first I could live with that - after all is just a question of remembering. But then I started also to use multiple stop baths and a specific wash procedure that required multiple water replacements rather than continuous wash. Now the program was completely and utterly useless. Besides, I never agreed with the times it proposed neither did I use the developers it so diligently provided. Started doing everything using a single clock and just being alert during the whole process. When I started fooling around with C-41 and RA-4 I needed a timer. I started looking for timers and found one that kind of suits my needs: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/labtimer/id292202454?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo%3D4. On the iphone it only has 4 timers, but are easily configurable. But, on the ipad, it has 4x4=16 timers. YES!!!! Now I could program any sequence that I wanted. It has served me nicely. There are several things I would like it to have, like being able to switch off the screen and block any unwanted screen popup, and the ability to save sequences of timers. While I don't do things by the book, I do like repeatability like anyone else :). The best thing is that labtimer is really free, whereas Intervallo which states in the thread title as being free costs now 1.8€ (probably $2), and can be used on the iphone for long exposures in the field and on the ipad for all chemical endeavours. That luminous screen I really could do without...but then...they weren't thinking of guys like us when they wrote it.

You actually can change the agitation scheme in massive Dev chart. The settings for the app are not accessible in the app itself but in the iPhones setting app.

Another really nice feature that the massive Dev chart app has is the ability to put the phone into a green mode or red mode for darkroom safe use. I use the green mode together with turning the brightness of the screen all the way down. I put my phone in a stand and place it a few inches back on a shelf that is about 3 feet above my trays of chemistry. I have has no problems with the small amount of light it puts off in green mode with the screen dimmed effecting my film and it is nice to be able to watch the timer.

rcmartins
6-Aug-2013, 16:46
You actually can change the agitation scheme in massive Dev chart. The settings for the app are not accessible in the app itself but in the iPhones setting app.
Very much true, and that's what I did, but it still is a forced and limited sequence. You cannot include a pre-bath or divided pre-bath. You cannot divide the stop bath nor the final wash (the final 30s are for rinse aid). You can make a first agitation different from the others but from then on you must stick with the fixed interval agitation. For semi-stand routine I like to do a very short and vibration-like movement for bromide release in-between the main agitation schemes and, again, it does not allow me to do it. Sure, I can stop, continue and or restart but then it becomes a pain. I am not stating this as a reply, but as a warning to those considering using the app that you cannot do whatever you want in terms of timer sequences. I also find important for an app to be useful for all processes and not just B&W film development. For 8€, which is what massive dev chart is now costing, I would expect more versatility. The database, is very nice for starters but afterwards it becomes counterproductive...


Another really nice feature that the massive Dev chart app has is the ability to put the phone into a green mode or red mode for darkroom safe use. I use the green mode together with turning the brightness of the screen all the way down. I put my phone in a stand and place it a few inches back on a shelf that is about 3 feet above my trays of chemistry. I have has no problems with the small amount of light it puts off in green mode with the screen dimmed effecting my film and it is nice to be able to watch the timer.
Just out of curiosity what processes, or films, are insensitive to green? I used to use the red for ortho films, being careful as you stated to put the brightness in the minimum and with improvised barns to avoid direct light since the backlighting leds emit in all wavelengths, but for sheet development in open tank or tray I have forbidden myself to enter the darkroom with one of those devices. For more than once was I pestered with an email or G+ or whatever notification and not always did I remember to beforehand shut the notifications off. For RA-4 orange or amber would have been nice..but then the timer sequence while usable would have to have different labels.

fecaleagle
6-Aug-2013, 16:53
I am considering developing an app like this myself. I am perpetually annoyed by the lack of a good interval timer for film development on the iPhone. I have created a windows application that creates an mp3 talking timer that I sync to my phone through iTunes. Works for me, but it would be nice to have something a little more versatile.

I put my phone into airplane mode and switch off the wi-fi so there is no chance of the screen turning on.

Light Guru
6-Aug-2013, 17:10
Very much true, and that's what I did, but it still is a forced and limited sequence. You cannot include a pre-bath or divided pre-bath. You cannot divide the stop bath nor the final wash (the final 30s are for rinse aid). You can make a first agitation different from the others but from then on you must stick with the fixed interval agitation. For semi-stand routine I like to do a very short and vibration-like movement for bromide release in-between the main agitation schemes and, again, it does not allow me to do it. Sure, I can stop, continue and or restart but then it becomes a pain. I am not stating this as a reply, but as a warning to those considering using the app that you cannot do whatever you want in terms of timer sequences. I also find important for an app to be useful for all processes and not just B&W film development. For 8€, which is what massive dev chart is now costing, I would expect more versatility. The database, is very nice for starters but afterwards it becomes counterproductive...

Just out of curiosity what processes, or films, are insensitive to green? I used to use the red for ortho films, being careful as you stated to put the brightness in the minimum and with improvised barns to avoid direct light since the backlighting leds emit in all wavelengths, but for sheet development in open tank or tray I have forbidden myself to enter the darkroom with one of those devices. For more than once was I pestered with an email or G+ or whatever notification and not always did I remember to beforehand shut the notifications off. For RA-4 orange or amber would have been nice..but then the timer sequence while usable would have to have different labels.

For a pre wash I just set the app to for a 2 part development and the first part I use for the prewash.

Not sure why you would need to split your stop bath as normal stop bath time is only 1 minute. It does not take long to stop development. You can split fixing time. I use that as it is safe to turn on the lights half way through your fixing. But you could use one of split fixing times as your split stop bath.

If you use moving water for your rinse there would be no need to split your rinse times.

The film types I have used when developing with the massive Dev app on green are Kodak TMax100 and Arista EDU 100. I chose green because I had read that a green light is used when developing by inspection.

Jac@stafford.net
6-Aug-2013, 17:12
I used it for several months but soon found it too limiting. Please bear in mind that what I am going to report is my experience from using it over a year ago, now.
The Massive Dev Chart forces a certain sequence with predefined intervals which can only be truly used for B&W development, and one that follows a "by the book" strategy since it forces a sequence....

With the app we can customize any step of the process and save it, so it is not "by the book".

rcmartins
6-Aug-2013, 17:31
For a pre wash I just set the app to for a 2 part development and the first part I use for the prewash.

when I use divided development, for instance divided pyrocat, I cannot do that



Not sure why you would need to split your stop bath as normal stop bath time is only 1 minute. It does not take long to stop development. You can split fixing time. I use that as it is safe to turn on the lights half way through your fixing. But you could use one of split fixing times as your split stop bath.
I use a first stop bath of just water and then a diluted acid stop


If you use moving water for your rinse there would be no need to split your rinse times.
I don't. I have found, in my own experience, that a full renewal of water to be more effective than a continuous flow. Thus, I fill with warm water (warm just to increase efficiency), agitate and then flush from 4 to six times. Then I use moving water for 2 min and finally a single 30 s rinse with demineralized water with a droplet of photoflo or equivalent


The film types I have used when developing with the massive Dev app on green are Kodak TMax100 and Arista EDU 100. I chose green because I had read that a green light is used when developing by inspection.
Ok. Thanks! I didn't know. Looking at the spectral sensitivity charts of TMX it does have slightly lower sensitivity in the green than in the blue wavelengths but personally I wouldn't risk it. Neither with red, by the way. I only use red with ortho films (litho films typically are also red insensitive)

rcmartins
6-Aug-2013, 17:36
With the app we can customize any step of the process and save it, so it is not "by the book".

Sorry, I guess that expression came out the wrong way. What I tried to say was that no matter what I did with the customization I couldn't quite match to my development routine nor did I feel comfortable with it. My true intention was to warn that others might feel the same, and Massive Dev Chart is far from free. But I might be the only guy out there that feels this way...

Jac@stafford.net
6-Aug-2013, 17:43
Sorry, I guess that expression came out the wrong way. What I tried to say was that no matter what I did with the customization I couldn't quite match to my development routine nor did I feel comfortable with it. My true intention was to warn that others might feel the same, and Massive Dev Chart is far from free. But I might be the only guy out there that feels this way...

To me, the fundamental question is: "Why do we need a computer to assist in what we already know?"
.

rcmartins
6-Aug-2013, 17:56
To me, the fundamental question is: "Why do we need a computer to assist in what we already know?"
.
To allow multitasking, to assist in remembering when changing development sequences often, to guarantee precise timing in color processes, to make it easier to follow contrast controlled development (litho specially) and probably other situations that I am not remembering now. Having said that, I used a single analog timer for some time, and naturally it works, but I find the experience less enjoyable that way - much less convenient. These computer things help me avoid distractions when multitasking - it's basically that for me.

Light Guru
6-Aug-2013, 18:19
when I use divided development, for instance divided pyrocat, I cannot do that


I use a first stop bath of just water and then a diluted acid stop

I don't. I have found, in my own experience, that a full renewal of water to be more effective than a continuous flow. Thus, I fill with warm water (warm just to increase efficiency), agitate and then flush from 4 to six times. Then I use moving water for 2 min and finally a single 30 s rinse with demineralized water with a droplet of photoflo or equivalent


Ok. Thanks! I didn't know. Looking at the spectral sensitivity charts of TMX it does have slightly lower sensitivity in the green than in the blue wavelengths but personally I wouldn't risk it. Neither with red, by the way. I only use red with ortho films (litho films typically are also red insensitive)

From the description of your developing process on on this thread it sounds like your development process it a TON more complicated then 99% of the people that develop film and I'm my personal opinion more complicated then it needs to be but to each his own. Considering your complicated method you are not going to find an app that caters to your workflow unless you write the app yourself.