Color printing

[macandal]

I came across Bruce Barnbaum while asking for book recommendations that dealt with the zone system. A friend said that, in his opinion, Bruce's book, The Art of Photography, was the book to get. Anyway, I didn't know anything about Bruce Barnbaum, but after reading his book, I realized what a great photographer he is. I realized how much I have to learn from him about making prints.

Now, I don't want to say, "the only complaint I have is...", but if I had to say what was the one thing I wish I had learned more about would be traditional color printing. If B&W is a dying art, this, color, may be a dead issue. At least when it comes to printing. It appears most people, and Bruce Barnbaum is one of them, have switched to shooting color film and printing digitally.

My question is, is there someone out there still printing color in the darkroom? Someone of the caliber of Bruce Barnbaum who still prints color in the darkroom, someone who has not switched to the hybrid system being used these days? Is there a book someone can recommend? I know I may be fighting an uphill battle, but I hope there is still someone out there. Thanks.

[Drew Wiley]

Nothing dead about it. Quite a few people are still at it, including me. It's even being done
commercially right in your own town with traditional enlargers.

[macandal]

Nothing dead about it. Quite a few people are still at it, including me. It's even being done
commercially right in your own town with traditional enlargers.Thanks, Drew. That's good to hear. That's great news. Can you recommend a book about color printing?

[Drew Wiley]

There's nothing in print I'm aware of that will give specific current products; but the basics
of printing RA4 from color negatives hasn't changed a lot, and you could do a search for
Kodak color printing guides. These were revised from time to time, and my copies were maybe from the 80's. Used bookstores often have odd's n' ends of various old Kodak books,
or you could do a search on EBay or some big used book house like Powell's, or even on the
member forum here. Beyond this, color printing directly from chromes involving Cibachrome
is now no longer feasible. Things like dye transfer printing or color carbon are quite involved, and need a fair amt of special skills and equipment. RA4, however, is fairly easy,
and the relevant films and papers are readily available. It's a good time to get into it because used darkroom gear is selling so reasonably.

[al olson]

Mario,

There are still some of us color printers left. The problems are the ability to find materials. I still have a whole refrigerator full of paper, but I believe that Fuji still sells paper in sheets. The trend is large rolls, presumably to supply the few labs that remain. You can buy a roll for several hundred dollars and cut it to length yourself. I have not seen Kodak in sheets for several years, but it may be out there. That leaves Fuji for my choice of paper.

As far as chemicals go, I have been buying the CPAC brand C-41 and RA-4 for nearly two years after the price of Kodak's C-41 Bleach jumped from around $28/gallon to $47/2.7 liters. The chemicals work just as well as Kodak's did. Refer to my post here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?71226-Changing-to-Different-Color-Chemistry&highlight=cpac Check with your chemical supplier.

I use the Jobo CPP2 to develop both film and prints, but the prints I develop with the Jobo are usually the final one of a kind. I also have a DoMac 17" roller processor that enables me to develop prints 16" wide. I use this for running my test prints and also for printing a series as long as the chemicals hold out. This is convenient because with the DoMac you aren't having to dry the Jobo tube before making the next print.

I hope this provides some help in getting started.

I should also note that the Freestyle catalog also lists a couple of suppliers for each the C-41 and the RA-4. I could recommend some books on doing color developing and printing, but my library is so out of date that you might not be able to find the references. I would recommend getting onto Amazon.com and searching on phrases such as RA-4 color printing or C-41 film developing. They are likely to have some used books listed that you can try for a couple of dollars.

[macandal]

Drew, Al, thanks for your responses. I guess what I'm specifically looking for are books on printing "technique" not on how to develop color film. I guess what I was trying to explain was how impressed I was with Bruce Barnbaum's printing technique, how knowleadgeable he was, etc. Is there a book that covers color printing techniques? Thanks.

[Drew Wiley]

There are many out-of-date texts for technical information. The Kodak guide I mentioned is
perhaps the closest you'll come to a well-illustrated introduction. This kind of thing is best
learned by someone currently doing it. In this area a number of colleges still teach color
darkroom. Cut sheet printing paper is readily available, and you can do this if you have a
colorhead-equipped enlarger, a temp control bath, and a simple drum processor. Color printing is very different than black and white in a number of respects. Perhaps the hardest
part of the learning curve is evaluating your negatives. That can be done with a proof sheet, or nowadays the labs can furnish you with an inexpensive JPEG disc sufficient to
judge general characteristics. With experience, you can forego this. Maybe after I'm retired
I can set up some teaching arrangement, but my private lab doesn't have sufficient elbow
room. Enough people seem interested, however. I don't know if the public darkroom in Hayward would want to take on these kinds of classes. The art academy in SF has a pitiful
void in analog technique, but a heck of a lot of color paper is currently being sold to schools here on the East Bay, so someone is still in the act. Fine printing is an acquired skill
just like in black and white, but potentially involves certain advances techniques no longer taught in
schools.

[Drew Wiley]

As per Barnbaum, he has his own way of doing things, and did a bit of Cibachrome at one
time, but for all practical purposes, that particular process is now obsolete. You can go to
Chris Burkett's website to see some shots of how that process is done. Todd Gangler has a
UTube presentation of color carbon, and Jim Browning and certain others have sites showing dye transfer technique, which is quite involved to get into. C-printing onto paper
like Crystal Archive is generally considered so elementary that only a handful of people get
into things like advanced masking control for it, including myself. But one need to get to
first base, and learn the basics, before proceeding. And I'm quite certain that no book exists which will give you the specifics, otherwise I would have written it!

[al olson]

Mario,

As Drew says, "C-printing onto paper like Crystal Archive is generally considered so elementary that only a handful of people get into things like advanced masking control for it, including myself." In fact for myself, most of my printing process involves color adjustments and perhaps a certain amount of dodging or burning. I never use masks.

Just taking a quick look at Adorama, the Kodak papers come in 164' rolls of N surface in either 50", 40", or 30" widths only. No sheets! The prices run $400, $350, and $255 per roll respectively. So Crystal Archive appears to be the best choice for sheet paper.

I also did a search on Amazon to see if there were any books listed for color printing. It did not turn up anything of interest. If you are looking for good examples of LF color landscape prints I would recommend books by Jack Dykinga, David Meunsch, John Fielder, John Shaw, etc.

You should be able to emulate the look you want through darkroom practice. Much of the success of the final print, however, is dependent upon the photographer and the image he puts on the negative.

[Mark Barendt]

http://ctein.com/booksmpl.htm

[Larry Gebhardt]

I have not come across what I consider to be a great book on color printing. Post Exposure by Ctein as Mark mentioned is good for masking techniques, but doesn't give much help with the basics. You can find the Kodak guides, and I have a text book, Photography by London, Upton, Kobre and Brill that has some decent advise on getting started. But nothing like what you can get from Barnbaum on B&W.

I think the hardest part of color printing for me is knowing what correct color balance is. I'm not sure any book could help with that.

[tgtaylor]

I think the hardest part of color printing for me is knowing what correct color balance is. I'm not sure any book could help with that.

I'll second that. As far as printing, what you want to do is to first determine the right density (aperature and exposure time). Once that is determined, make a work print and put the dry print in a print viewing station. Carefully examine the whites in the print. Can you discern a color cast? If so, then viewing the print with color printing filters determine the correction needed and make another print and evaluate it. Once the density and color meets your approval, then print it. If you enlarge from, say 8x10 to 11x14, change only the aperature and not the exposure time. If you change the time, you'll change the density and probably thre color as well - in other words you'll need to start over again.

IMO, you need the following for printing color negative:

1. Enlarger with color head or filters.
2. Print viewing station and Print viewing kit (color filters for determining color casts and corrections).
3. Rotary processor and tanks (keeps the processing at constant temperature and the agitation is a constant). Jobo is great!

As far as books, Exploring Color Photography by Robert Hirsch http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Exploring-Color-Photography-Fifth-Edition/Robert-Hirsch/e/9780240813356 and Color Photography: A Working Manual by Henry Horenstein http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/color-photography-henry-horenstein/1002969705?ean=9780316373173 are useful as are the TechPubs that you can download from the Kodak website.

Color photography is fun and there is no reason not to take a few holders loaded with color negative with you. Some shots work better in color than in B&W and vis versa, of course.

Thomas

[polyglot]

I'll second that. As far as printing, what you want to do is to first determine the right density (aperature and exposure time). Once that is determined, make a work print and put the dry print in a print viewing station. Carefully examine the whites in the print. Can you discern a color cast?

Whites ain't going to tell you much since this is a negative system; the whites have no basically exposure so will still be white regardless of how bad your colour balance is. Have a look in the darker regions instead - not the blacks, but the darker mid-tones (around Zone IV) because that's where the colour balance problems will be most evident.

Anyway, the OP may find this APUG thread (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/112114-who-prints-ra4-colour-prints.html) has the same question asked+answered. There's a bunch of us. RA4 materials are cheap (cheaper than B&W!) and very available. The only hard bit is you can't really use a safelight.

[Bill Burk]

Hey polyglot,

There is a safelight, so that takes out the last hard bit.

Mario,

I can encourage you on the journey into color negative analog printing, but it's not my specialty - so go to Drew Wiley for that. At this point my journey is taking me deeper into black and white. I did a smattering of analog color printing "back in the day" when all printing was analog. I can't say I even got good at the technique. I never made the change to color negative shooting, which I think is probably the best way to work in analog color today. (I'd probably use the 4x5 to make internegs off my old slides if I felt the urge to print my old work today).

[macandal]

Whites ain't going to tell you much since this is a negative system; the whites have no basically exposure so will still be white regardless of how bad your colour balance is. Have a look in the darker regions instead - not the blacks, but the darker mid-tones (around Zone IV) because that's where the colour balance problems will be most evident.

Anyway, the OP may find this APUG thread (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/112114-who-prints-ra4-colour-prints.html) has the same question asked+answered. There's a bunch of us. RA4 materials are cheap (cheaper than B&W!) and very available. The only hard bit is you can't really use a safelight.Thanks Polyglot. That was some good readin'. good to know traditional color developing/printing is still alive and well.

[macandal]

Mario,

I can encourage you on the journey into color negative analog printing, but it's not my specialty - so go to Drew Wiley for that.Thanks Bill. Yes, I have been checking Drew's website.

[Drew Wiley]

Sorry, but my website hasn't been revised in at least a decade, and maybe only two color neg prints on the whole thing - the rest is old Ciba work. And no tech data. Wouldn't make
any difference - all the relevant films and papers have since changed somewhat. And nothing published will be up to date either. At one time there were darkroom magazines and
so forth, but now it's the web at best for info. In the old days people mostly used color neg for things like portraiture, and used transparencies more often for more saturated work, which inherently required advanced controls like masking. So there were very few cases where masking was ever used with color neg film. These newer films open up new
opportunities; but I would strongly recommend first learning what can be done with simple
dodging and burning, because the integral orange mask on the neg will itself handle the
majority of situations, at least within modest enlargements.

[bob carnie]

A colour wheel and a colour ring around are tools that I have used recently and in the past to teach colour printing.
All my staff who want to print are forced to understand the colour wheel and also make a ring around.

A good understanding of colour theory is very helpful, analoque and digital printmaking of colour images.

[sanking]

In my opinion the best ever book on color printing is The History of Three-Color Photography by E. J. Wall, published by American Photographic Publishing Company in 1925.

Another great book is the Third Edition of Colour Photography in Practice by D. A. Spencer, published by Pitman Publishing Corporation in 1948.

Sandy

[Drew Wiley]

Some of those old books are indeed classics for studying the roots of all kinds of processes, esp forgotten ones; and a lot of the old graphic arts manuals are fun too.
But C-printing with current materials is a much simpler technique. You still need to know
basic color wheel theory and how colorheads work in relation to this. But RA4 isn't very
intimidating. Fine-tuning it for personal expression can be as simple or as complex as one
desires to make it, just like any other medium. If one does decide to get into advanced
enlarging controls like masking, it will be quite a bit different from anything found in the
books, except gear-wise. Color neg masking is considerably different from masking for black
and white, or Ciba, or dye transfer, though if you already have those particular skills it should be easier to transfer over. And most of the time, you just don't need to.