Celor / Dialyte design for portrait shooting? - C. Reichert Neu-Solar

[matvogel]

Hello,

I recently found an interesting and for me unknown lens: C. Reichert Wien - Neu-Solar 400mm f/4.5 which was probably a lantern lens since there is no aperture nor a slot for waterhouse stops. Glass is in pristine condition. I assume this lens was made before WWII. I cleaned the elements and it turned out that it is a symmetric dialyte construction.

Is there anybody who has experience in using a Celor, Dogmar, Syntor or similar for portrait shooting? What can be expected from this lens in terms of sharpness, bokeh etc?

In any case, I'm building now a lens board for my 8x10 and will start some tests with b&w film and collodion soon.

Looking forward in reading your comments!

Matthias

84049

[E. von Hoegh]

I use an Artar for portraits. This is the same design as your lens. It is very sharp. I don't know what "bokeh" means.

[matvogel]

Bokeh is a Japanese word, describing the way how nicely a lens renders the out-of-focus sections in the image. Because of its nice, swirly bokeh and its tack sharp center, the Petzval lenses are so good for making portraits.

[domaz]

I don't do portraits generally but I can't see why a Dialyte design wouldn't be good for it. Some Dialytes are slow (e.g. Apo Ronar, Artar etc..) other are pretty fast like my Hugo Meyer 210mm 4.5 Helioplan. The fast ones will get you the Bokeh you want more easily and I've always liked the Bokeh of Dialytes.

Here's an older thread extolling the virtues of the Dialyte Blur/Bokeh (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?49916-Dialyte-Blur-Apo-Nikkors-Apo-Artars-Apo-Ronars).

[Dan Fromm]

mat, you don't know how Petzval lenses were originally used. Only the central part of the image was used. Nowadays some photographers practice lens abuse, use Petzval lenses on formats larger than they were intended for. That's where your "nice, swirly bokeh" comes from. I find the your "nice, swirly bokeh" nauseating.

In English, the correct pronunciation of bokeh (boke in romaji) is hokum.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Dialytes are generally well corrected, so you won't get the nauseating background (I agree with Dan) of a Petzval pushed-too-far. That said, the Celor is a classic portrait lens, and has a nice smooth feel to it. Of course, this doesn't mean that your lens is going to look that way.

[matvogel]

We have now a nice discussion here about subjective aesthetics. Petzval lenses are of course absolutely poorly built by modern standards and photographers in the mid 19th century tried everything to work around these flaws. Therefore the usable section was only in the centre and only today we use the design limitations as a kind of a style. Some like it some not ...

[E. von Hoegh]

Bokeh is a Japanese word, describing the way how nicely a lens renders the out-of-focus sections in the image. Because of its nice, swirly bokeh and its tack sharp center, the Petzval lenses are so good for making portraits.

Petzvals make me nauseous the way they are misused. I still don't know what that word means, it does not exist in my lexicon.

[E. von Hoegh]

We have now a nice discussion here about subjective aesthetics. Petzval lenses are of course absolutely poorly built by modern standards and photographers in the mid 19th century tried everything to work around these flaws. Therefore the usable section was only in the centre and only today we use the design limitations as a kind of a style. Some like it some not ...

Petzvals were wonderfully well made by any standard. When used properly they do a wonderful job. No nauseating swirlies!

[E. von Hoegh]

mat, you don't know how Petzval lenses were originally used. Only the central part of the image was used. Nowadays some photographers practice lens abuse, use Petzval lenses on formats larger than they were intended for. That's where your "nice, swirly bokeh" comes from. I find the your "nice, swirly bokeh" nauseating.

In English, the correct pronunciation of bokeh (boke in romaji) is hokum.

No, Dan. It's pronounced "bullsh!t".

[CP Goerz]

Isn't it pronounced 'Boo-sheet'? ;-)

If the old lenses were used (as intended) with glass plates on blue sensitive emulsions we may all be surprised just how good they are, maybe even better than some modern glass as others have pointed out.

[E. von Hoegh]

Isn't it pronounced 'Boo-sheet'? ;-)

Probably closer to "burrsheet".

[Dan Fromm]

No, Dan. It's pronounced "bullsh!t".

I stand corrected.

[E. von Hoegh]

I stand corrected.

"Hokum" is good for "polite" society, though. :)