Portrait lens on a Speed Graphic 4x5?

[ryanmills]

I'm very much a newbie so forgive me if this is a stupid question but I cant seem to find the relevant info. I'm looking at a Speed Graphic for a first 4x5 camera since they seem easy to find, transport and are cheap. However im wondering if there are any issues with mounting a longer lens like a 210mm Schneider Symmar-S. I asume it wont fold in but i'm not sure if the bellows would be long enough or if there would be issues focusing. A secondary question, would the movements be limited on a longer lens. I'm a portrait photographer looking for a cheap first LF camera to experiment with.

[Robert Budding]

Speed Graphics have plenty of bellows draw for a 210mm lens. As for a cheap portrait lens - the 203mm Ektar is excellent, and you can fold the camera closed with it attached.

[Richard Rankin]

If you get one like the one I've got listed, you can use the focal plane shutter and just pick up barrel lenses. Depending on what you want, you can get some of those pretty cheaply and it opens up the option of using a lot of cool old brass lenses. When I shot 4x5, I used a 210 Caltar II lens in a Copal shutter that I thought was terrific.

Cheers and welcome to LFPF,
Richard

[Bill_1856]

I second the 203 Ektar. It sounds like a lot shorter focal length lens, but actually is only 1/4". Wide open it's about one stop slower than the Symmar-S, but it's every bit as sharp. It has so few air/glass surfaces that it doesn't matter that it's only single-coated. Kodak hit the jackpot when they made this one.
And the price is right!

[jnantz]

you might also consider a 10" tele optar
works wonders ..

[Bill_1856]

10" Tele Optar is a terrific lens, especially for the bucks, but won't fold inside the camera.

[jp]

The 203 ektar and optars are great. I have a 210mm trioplan barrel lens which I like. Lots of meniscus choices from 100 years old to contemporary soft focus. The 210 Schneider Symmar-S is excelllent but kinda plain ; good and plain like a toyota; can't go wrong with it.

Speed graphics are excellent, but aren't do-everything cameras. I like them and use them as my go-to LF camera. The focal plane shutter to allow barrel lenses is handy for shooting high shutter speeds. Movement abilities change once you flip the camera on it's side. For something with built in shutter, the oldest pre-war cameras have the most shutter speed options. Newer pacemaker ones have focal plane shutter and some movements. Super speeds have no focal plane shutter and an odd lensboard and better movements; capable for some things but less adaptable for DIY.

[Jody_S]

The camera has bellows draw enough, the biggest (or smallest) issue is the size of the lensboard. With some of the wider aperture lenses, the size of the rear element is such that it's difficult or impossible to mount, and it's not all that convenient to try to take off the rear element to mount, and reach in through the focal plane shutter to screw it on. I've had issues with some brassies where I had to leave the flange loose on a board to mount it on the camera, and carry a screwdriver with me to tighten the flange to the board over the top of the retaining bracket on the camera; that was with a smallish Petzval that barely covers the format.

[Alan Gales]

I just bought a Crown Graphic. I really like the 135mm focal length that came with it but I too wanted to use a 210mm lens also. I all ready owned a Caltar ll-E 210mm f/6.8 lens which is a rebadged Rodenstock Geronar. I picked up a Copal 1 board off ebay and the lens just fits with the camera closed.

It's just another option for you.

[C. D. Keth]

I just bought a Crown Graphic. I really like the 135mm focal length that came with it but I too wanted to use a 210mm lens also. I all ready owned a Caltar ll-E 210mm f/6.8 lens which is a rebadged Rodenstock Geronar. I picked up a Copal 1 board off ebay and the lens just fits with the camera closed.

It's just another option for you.

Especially for a cheap lens, the 210mm geronar is pretty nice looking wide open for portraits. I just posted a portrait done with mine at f8. Quite smooth, still modern-lens-looking if that description makes sense, and mine at least has a little bit of that swirly look wide open.

[rdenney]

I have set up an 8-1/2" (215mm) Ilex Paragon, which is fairly fast for a cheap tessar at f/4.5, on my Pacemaker Speed. It will NOT fold up inside the camera. But the bellows on a Speed Graphic are more than long enough. I was even able to adjust a Kalart rangefinder to focus it, though I would not trust a rangefinder for focusing an 8" lens on a Graphic at an aperture as wide as f/4.5. It makes a fun portrait combo, especially for quickie Polaroid portraits using a 405 back and Fuji FP100C. For those, the Kalart rangefinder is accurate enough at f/4.5.

That Paragon is mounted in an Ilex No. 4 shutter, which requires one to move the body-release shutter actuator out of the way, but otherwise fits fine. That shutter is considerably bigger than the No. 1 shutter used by a 210mm plasmat, so it will fit.

If I wanted to fold it inside the camera, the 203mm Ektar is a lens that will provide a bit of that soft, single-coated look that matches the vintage of the camera. For modern color and contrast, that Geronar can't be beat. Stop it well down if you want sharp, but open it up for some interesting effects. Neither will blur the background as much as that f/4.5 Paragon, of course. If you are curious, the Geronar is a decent triplet, modeled, as I recall, on the Cooke design.

Rick "for whom this was last year's winter project" Denney

[Mark Sawyer]

If you plan to use strobes in a studio setting, the focal plane shutter isn't very practical. (At night, like Weegee, yes, in a well-lit environment, no, too much background light.) For flash in an already lit environment, you'll want to go with a synch'd shutter so you can have a fast shutter speed.

If you're only going to shoot available light or flash in a dark environment, the focal plane shutters are great, (other than occassionally depositing dust on the film :( ).

Other than that, there are lots of nice lenses to consider...

[Roger Hesketh]

Try to find an Anniversary model with a Graflock back. Most Anniversary models have spring backs but just the last few were made with Graflock backs. The big advantage they have over the Pacemaker series that succeeded them is they take a Graflex C board which is wooden and 4x4 inches square. Within reason you can hang pretty much any lens you like on one of those. The Pacemaker board is also slightly smaller and metal. It is much more difficult to fit oddball lenses to. The Anniversary models also have a greater range of shutter speeds down to 10th sec whereas the Pacemakers slowest speed is 30th sec.
Lots of interesting older lenses in that focal length as it gives a normal field of view on on 5x7 and Half plate. Two fastish ones which have not been mentioned and which I think give pleasing results are the Kodak 5x8 8 1/2 inch Anastigmat as often found on the Graflex RB Series D which is f/4.5 wide open, a Tessar design and a forefather to the Kodak Commercial Ektar series and the Cooke Series II f/4.5 Aviar which will fold up into the camera body. The Kodak lens will not. The 8 1/2 inch Commercial Ektar f/6.3 is also worth consideration but possibly is a little slow and is a very tight fit in a Speed Graphic body.

Roger

[Alan Gales]

Especially for a cheap lens, the 210mm geronar is pretty nice looking wide open for portraits. I just posted a portrait done with mine at f8. Quite smooth, still modern-lens-looking if that description makes sense, and mine at least has a little bit of that swirly look wide open.

Nice Portrait!

[ryanmills]

If you plan to use strobes in a studio setting, the focal plane shutter isn't very practical. (At night, like Weegee, yes, in a well-lit environment, no, too much background light.) For flash in an already lit environment, you'll want to go with a synch'd shutter so you can have a fast shutter speed.

If you're only going to shoot available light or flash in a dark environment, the focal plane shutters are great, (other than occassionally depositing dust on the film :( ).

Other than that, there are lots of nice lenses to consider...

Thanks everyone for all the input, I will be looking a several of those lens again. Currently I do my of my work on 50mm and 85mm primes for a 35mm camera. Looking to stay in that range for LF. I'm looking to pick a very sharp lens with a many iris/circular bokeh. I know sharpness is tough thing to gauge but I plan to work with it pretty wide open so a lens sharper than adverage would look decent in the less sharp range, if that makes any sense. I know there are some nice high end lens but since I am literally buying everything (camera, lens, film holders, everything need for home developing and a scanner) budget is limited.

Also big thanks to Mark for pointing out the types of shutters. I do plan to use studio lighting in half my shots and it never occurred to me to consider shutter type.

Thou that leaves me with a another newbie question. I have yet to fully understand all the combos of lens/shutters/lens boards. Please correct me if I understand this wrong. Lens boards are specific to a camera body and the hole size is related to the different shutters such a Copal #0. Then the lens themselves are intended for the different types of shutters "Copal #0" etc. What i'm not clear on is if they generally are sold with the shutters and if mounting a lens to a shutter is as simple and screwing it on or is there is a time consuming process? More confusing for me is when I look at the 203mm ektar and see its got a shutter i have never heard of and im not sure how to find out if it has a synced shutter. I did read about the ektar on the "Large Format Lenses for Portraits (2nd ed.)" FAQ for this site. It looked good but i was concerned about how the author said it was slow to setup. I work mostly with kids and anything time consuming would be a problematic.

[Bill_1856]

203 Ektar comes in a Kodak "Supermatic" shutter. It is pretty much similar to other high end shutters of the period such as Compur, Copal, and Rapax. So far as I know they are all synchronised for strobe ("X" sync") and most also for flashbulbs. Excellent reliability, and good repair services available. They have a "press focus" button which keeps it open for focusing.

[Mark Sawyer]

Thou that leaves me with a another newbie question. I have yet to fully understand all the combos of lens/shutters/lens boards. Please correct me if I understand this wrong. Lens boards are specific to a camera body and the hole size is related to the different shutters such a Copal #0. Then the lens themselves are intended for the different types of shutters "Copal #0" etc. What i'm not clear on is if they generally are sold with the shutters and if mounting a lens to a shutter is as simple and screwing it on or is there is a time consuming process? More confusing for me is when I look at the 203mm ektar and see its got a shutter i have never heard of and im not sure how to find out if it has a synced shutter. I did read about the ektar on the "Large Format Lenses for Portraits (2nd ed.)" FAQ for this site. It looked good but i was concerned about how the author said it was slow to setup. I work mostly with kids and anything time consuming would be a problematic.

Lenses meant for shutters almost always come with a shutter that matches the lens with the right thread sizes for the front and rear cells, the right spacing between the cells, and the right aperture scale for the lens. Don't mess with buying separate cells and shutters; it's a lot of time and trouble, and you'll almost always spend more and risk an incorrect match.

Shutters need to be mounted in a lensboard with the right size hole for that shutter. Smaller holes can be enlarged for a bigger lens, but obviously, it's hard to make a big hole smaller. With a Speed Graphic, be careful you don't get a lens too large for the relatively small lens board. Fortunately, most lenses in the 210mm range aren't too big, but if you get into really fast ones, there may be a few.

I wouldn't worry about the couple of extra seconds a Supermatic shutter would take, but if you want the fastest possible shutter, look for a Press-style shutter, as they are self-cocking, (about the only time-saving feature I can think of on any shutter made in the last 60 years).

Personally, I'd recommend a Copal shutter, as they're the newest (still being made), and any shutter, no matter how reliable, can become unreliable through abuse or improper storage. (Leave it uncocked in the "T" or "B" position when not in use to minimize tension on the inner springs.) That said, I've seen 100+ year old pneumatic shutters like the Optimo and Volute, and 50-75 year old mechanical shutters, that still work beautifully.

[premortho]

Ryan Mills...The last thing to worry about is whether a lens is synchronised. I use both mechanical and electric synchro's on my 4X5's. This has advantages as a Graphlite has a red button that energises the solenoid, firing the shutter without vibration. Many of the lens/shutter combos you will run across are easy to distinguish if they are synched or not...they will have two prong sticking out of the side of the shutter. This is a bi-post connection. Paramount sells a bi-post to pc converter cable to fire strobes, if that is your thing. I don't understand your interest in super sharp lenses for portraiture...the problem is often trying to get them soft enough. Remember, the 4X5 experience with sharp enlargements vs. 35mm enlargements as sharp as possible is like comparing apples to oranges. At least in Black&White.

[Dan Fromm]

Try to find an Anniversary model with a Graflock back. Most Anniversary models have spring backs but just the last few were made with Graflock backs.

Why do you believe this? I ask because my Graflex literature indicates that the Anny was discontinued at the end of 1946 and that the Graflok back was introduced in 1949. When the Graflok back was introduced, backs for retrofitting to older Graphics were offered. I've seen Grafloks on 2x3 Miniature Speed Graphics that were correct for the cameras, i.e., had a flash (bulb only) sync terminal at the upper left of the back.

Grafloks from newer cameras can be attached to older ones. That's how my 1947 Pacemaker Speed came to have a Graflok. But the economics are usually terrible. A Graflok without a camera can cost at least as much as a complete camera with one.

Although production of Annys for the civilian market ended in 1946, it is very possible that Anny production for the War Department/Department of Defense continued long enough for really late military Annys to be delivered with Grafloks. Graflex made what customers, especially large ones, insisted on having.

[Roger Hesketh]

Sorry about this I did not mean to hijack the thread. I just mentioned it in passing, try to find an Anniversary model as it makes mounting big fast portrait lenses easier.

Dan I have over the years seen a number of Anniversary model S.G.'s with Graflocks. Whether they have been retrofitted or not their are a lot of them out there with Graflock backs. Same goes for Miniature Speeds. I personally prefer the Graflex back on a Speed Graphic but I don't expect most will agree with me about their benefits.

84016

4x5 Anniversary Speed Graphic with Graflock back

84017

Miniature Speed Graphic with Graflock back

For the benefit of the O.P. and others a Graflock back makes it easier to attach roll film holders. With a Graflock the focusing screen will unclip and can be replaced by the roll film holder. With the older spring back generally fitted to Anniversary and earlier Speed Graphic models any roll film holder has to squeezed under the focusing screen and many will not fit. A few Speed Graphics were fitted with the Graflex back from the Graflex SLR.

I am surprised to learn that not all Pacemaker Speed Graphics were fitted with Graflock backs.

If flash synchronisation is important then. The 8 1/2 inch Commercial Ektar in a flash synced Ilex shutter might make a good choice.

Roger

[jp]

The graflock back has that nice metal hood typically as well. Replaces the need for a dark cloth about 90% of the time if you use the ground glass to focus. It also allows the use of fuji instant film holders.

The spring back is lighter and has a lighter duty shade that is on three sides.

[rdenney]

Generally speaking, you take the shutter in which the lens is mounted, and make it work.

Of the shutters made in the last 40 years or so, Compurs will have more blades than Copal shutters--really the only drawback to the Copals given your requirements.

Older lenses will often come in American-made shutters. Graflex used Kodak lenses until the late 40s or early 50s and these are supplied in Kodak or Ilex shutters. Then, Graflex switched to Wollensak lenses in Wollensak shutters (Rapax), usually branded as Graflex lenses (Optar) and shutters (Graphex). Within their stated accuracy, and when cleaned and adjusted, they are very good shutters. Do not trust their fastest speeds. All Graflex-branded shutters were synchronized for flash, as were Ilex shutters that included "Synchro" in their name. All the American shutters of that era used the bipost flash connection, and they all have nice, round apertures.

(A round aperture can make bokeh with bright-edge unfocused highlights look worse, but if the lens exhibits a faded edge on unfocused highlights, it doesn't matter as much. Which you prefer is up to you. LF guys often like edgy swirlies, but I prefer a smooth rendering. Most lenses have round apertures at maximum aperture in any case.)

Compur and Copal shutters come as 0, 1 and 3 sizes, with few exceptions. In this focal length, a 5.6 lens in either if these will usually have a No. 1 shutter, needing a lens board with around a 42mm hole. American lenses followed a different size series, and many Graflex boards will have holes for those. Get the lens first, measure the diameter of the threaded portion, and then look for a matching board. I've never been unable to find a Graflex board with the correct hole, even for lenses never intended for Graphics (like the Ilex Paragon I mentioned earlier).

Rick "who likes the karma of using old lenses on old cameras" Denney

[rdenney]

Note to Graflex lore masters for the benefit of future searchers: it is not "graflock" or "graphlock" but "Graflok". It is a trademark, which is why other camera makers who adopted the same interface called it an "International back" if they didn't want to pay license fees.

And no Graflex camera was ever called "Graphlex." Of course, before the company changed its name to Graflex Corporation, "Graflex" was a model name applied to cameras with reflex viewing, while the standard press Crowns and Speeds were "Graphic" cameras.

Rick "sorry--pet peeve" Denney

[Jim Jones]

203 Ektar comes in a Kodak "Supermatic" shutter. It is pretty much similar to other high end shutters of the period such as Compur, Copal, and Rapax. So far as I know they are all synchronised for strobe ("X" sync") and most also for flashbulbs. Excellent reliability, and good repair services available. They have a "press focus" button which keeps it open for focusing.

The 203mm Ektar and its predecessor, the 203mm No. 70 Anastigmat, came in a variety of shutters, synced and not, over many years. The 203mm Ektar I used for many years came in a shutter with F-X sync which had been modified to X sync. The modification appears relatively simple to make.

[Roger Hesketh]

The thing I am really annoyed with myself about is I had it right and then I decided it did not look right in same way the word colour does not look right without the u, and I went and added the c to Graflok.

I don't suppose their is a chance please that one of the Moderators could take pity upon me and judiciously edit my posts in this thread is their?

Roger

[ryanmills]

Thanks everyone for all the info, I will be looking over all those lens recommendations! Definitely feeling better about picking my first lens.

[Leonard Robertson]

Ryan - I looked at your work on your website. Really nice! I wish I had way less cameras, and even a little bit of your talent. What equipment did you use for those portraits? It would help to know what you are moving from to 4X5.

I get to Spokane every couple of weeks or so. If it would be of help to you, I could bag up some different Graphic models and we could meet somewhere, your home or wherever. I could explain a lot of things in person that will take you a lot of online reading to understand. If you haven't handled Graphics before it would be good to play with some before buying anything. I think my wife and I will be in Spokane this Friday or Saturday, but with the Thanksgiving, this may not be a good weekend for you. We can make it another time too if this weekend won't work.

Len

[Jim Andrada]

The Graflok (speklled right, eh!) back is also a very good think if you use Grafmatic 6 sheet holders as the push - pull to switch films can pull the unit out of a spring back.

[ryanmills]

Ryan - I looked at your work on your website. Really nice! I wish I had way less cameras, and even a little bit of your talent. What equipment did you use for those portraits? It would help to know what you are moving from to 4X5.

I get to Spokane every couple of weeks or so. If it would be of help to you, I could bag up some different Graphic models and we could meet somewhere, your home or wherever. I could explain a lot of things in person that will take you a lot of online reading to understand. If you haven't handled Graphics before it would be good to play with some before buying anything. I think my wife and I will be in Spokane this Friday or Saturday, but with the Thanksgiving, this may not be a good weekend for you. We can make it another time too if this weekend won't work.

Len

Hi Len, Thanks for your kind words on my photos. The shots on my site are all digital and were taken on a canon 5d mark II. I'm pretty sure all of them featured were taken with a canon 50mm f/1.2 (my fav lens). I have spent years trying to mimic film in digital and finally came to the conclusion while I can get the color close, the look and texture of a well created LF shot just cant be done. Thank for the offer to peek at your cameras. This weekend I will be out of town, how often do you make it into town?

[Leonard Robertson]

Hi Ryan - There is a pretty good chance I can make it to Spokane next weekend, probably Saturday. My wife is shooting Santa photos that day here in our small town and I can probably swipe her car, fill it with cameras, and head to Spokane. But it depends on the weather too. I haven't seen a forecast that far ahead so I don't know if there is any chance of snowy roads. If Sat. isn't good for you Sunday will probably work, again depending on the road conditions.

You certainly fooled me as far as camera with your photos. I tend to think digital has a "look" that I can identify, but I didn't see it in yours. Maybe that is due to the full frame sensor of the 5d, or your post-processing of the images. But it seems you are dissatisfied and want to give film a try, which is great!

Maybe when you get back to town you can PM me here on this forum with a phone number or email, then we can figure out something for next weekend.

Len

[BrianShaw]

The Graflok (speklled right, eh!) back is also a very good think if you use Grafmatic 6 sheet holders as the push - pull to switch films can pull the unit out of a spring back.

... annd a goood thiink ffor rolll filmm backks, tooo.

[Jim Andrada]

Sorry - of course I meant THING instead of THINK - must have been looking at my old IBM "THINK" sign too long. Used to have a bunch of them in various languages. No idea where they are now, although I still have one of the old plugboards we used to use to program in the late 50's. Hmm - late 50's was a long time ago. Maybe that's why I have to wear my "Hi, I'm Jim" labels upside down at parties so I can read them myself. Might explain typing "think" instead of "thing" Might explain a bunch of other stuff too.

[BrianShaw]

... :)

[ryanmills]

Hi Ryan - There is a pretty good chance I can make it to Spokane next weekend, probably Saturday. My wife is shooting Santa photos that day here in our small town and I can probably swipe her car, fill it with cameras, and head to Spokane. But it depends on the weather too. I haven't seen a forecast that far ahead so I don't know if there is any chance of snowy roads. If Sat. isn't good for you Sunday will probably work, again depending on the road conditions.

You certainly fooled me as far as camera with your photos. I tend to think digital has a "look" that I can identify, but I didn't see it in yours. Maybe that is due to the full frame sensor of the 5d, or your post-processing of the images. But it seems you are dissatisfied and want to give film a try, which is great!

Maybe when you get back to town you can PM me here on this forum with a phone number or email, then we can figure out something for next weekend.

Len

Well the issue with digital IMO is dealing with too much sharpness and how it responds to color. I don't like the life like look that digital has, I end up trying to crowbar it back. I have found a good way to add noise back to take the edge off but color is still and issue. I am happy with the results I get. But I'm looking to do a series of very large portraits printed around 5 foot tall (all depends on the largest enlarger head I can find :D ), viewed from a few feet away. The 4x5 is a stepping stone to 8x10 given the extra costs of it.

I might have jumped the gun on next weekend, I think the weekend after it, the 8th is going to be the soonest I get off. Thou you don't need to make a special trip into town for me. How often do you make it into Spokane? What direction are you coming from?

[Leonard Robertson]

Ryan - I'm off work for the winter so I'm really flexible on days. If you are off days other than Saturday or Sunday, we can no doubt work something out. Or weekend after this coming weekend would be fine, unless we start getting snow. It is a good thing all this rain we've been getting isn't snow. I'm about 50 miles west of Spokane, so it is only an hour drive for me. I usually come in through Airway Height. My wife and I tend to come in every couple of weeks. Books from thrift stores and Datsun parts from Pull n Save are what keep me coming back to Spokane. I hate the traffic, even though I know it isn't even considered traffic by big city standards.

Are you thinking of setting up a darkroom, or having film processed, scanned, and printed? Color or B&W? Mostly I'm just curious, but it might help me generate ideas if I know. Of course we can kick all that around when we meet up too.

Len

[ryanmills]

Ryan - I'm off work for the winter so I'm really flexible on days. If you are off days other than Saturday or Sunday, we can no doubt work something out. Or weekend after this coming weekend would be fine, unless we start getting snow. It is a good thing all this rain we've been getting isn't snow. I'm about 50 miles west of Spokane, so it is only an hour drive for me. I usually come in through Airway Height. My wife and I tend to come in every couple of weeks. Books from thrift stores and Datsun parts from Pull n Save are what keep me coming back to Spokane. I hate the traffic, even though I know it isn't even considered traffic by big city standards.

Are you thinking of setting up a darkroom, or having film processed, scanned, and printed? Color or B&W? Mostly I'm just curious, but it might help me generate ideas if I know. Of course we can kick all that around when we meet up too.

Len

Sounds good, see how the weather holds and up go from there.

I plan to do everything myself. There is no one left in Spokane that develops. But really I prefer to do it by hand myself. Makes it more my "own" work and I like the control even if it comes with risk. I have a rather large kitchen that I can blackout rather easily so I plan to do everything in there. I will have a hybrid setup to start. Developing both b/w and color (if I can get my hands on a jobo) and then scanning. Later on I plan to find the biggest enlarger I can and build a table in the kitchen for it. Realistically I wont start on the jumbo prints till next winter thou. This spring will be 4x5 learning and maybe by next fall I will get an 8x10. Just depends on the learning curve for me, the move to 8x10 wont be a cheap one, want to be sure I know what i'm doing first :p

[Leonard Robertson]

Ryan - I just sent you a PM here on the Forum with my email and phone number.

I thought R&R on Monroe still develops 4X5 color but I don't see any mention on their website of doing any processing. Maybe it is there and I'm just missing it. Learning to do your own is the right idea anyway, both economically and having control of your work.

Remind me when we meet up, or I can email, a couple of possibilities on used Jobos in Spokane. But I don't know if either is still available.

If you can live with a puny 4X5 enlarger, I have an extra Omega D2 I can probably part with, but we can talk about that too. I also have part of an 8X10 enlarger, but it is a "project" and you will need lots of room to set the thing up.

Len

[ryanmills]

I had been using R&R for all my printing till I got a decent inkjet to do my own. They no longer work with film and don't even have a drum scanner anymore :(

I will message you when I start looking for a jobo, im going to start with b/w first since its a bit more forgiving till im getting consistent exposures.

Yea I will be looking for an 8x10 enlarger but not till next year, that's a long ways off but I have a large enough space for it :)

[catalinajack]

My 203mm Ektar is mounted in a Flash Supermatic. It has a slide setting for F or M bulbs. For use with bulbs the flash synchronizer lever must be cocked to invoke a 5 millisecond delay (F) or 20 millisecond (M). For use with an electronic flash, the synchronizer is not cocked so that the flash fires immediately.