Sell my Tachi for a Chamonix 45n2?

[wallrat]

I have a super nice Tachihara (almost, if not, mint) that I really like. The downside for me is that it's a bit flashy and draws attention. I'm also not a huge fan of the short bellows and the inability to swap them out. I got a good deal on it about 2 years ago and am thinking about selling it and buying the Chamonix 45n2. I'm a tech guy and that camera, it's features aside, makes me a bit giddy with the beautiful hardware. I really enjoy the lightness of the Tachi and it's ability to stay set regardless of any fiddling I do after focus (I added the plastic spacers under all the knobs). That said, how much heavier / bulkier does the Chamonix feel? I can read the actual specs, and I have, but numbers don't always relate to real life. Any thoughts for and against such a decision are welcomed. I assume I can get about $550 for the Tachi. Am I off there?

Thanks in advance,
-Bill

[Corran]

I have not used a Tachihara personally, but I would bet the Chamonix is much more rigid and probably no more bulkier or heavier. I'd have to look up the specs on the Tachi but the Chamonix is less than 3lb! What more do you want? :)

[Bill_1856]

Don't start down THAT path.
Your first line tells the REAL story: "I have a super nice Tachihara that I really like." Keep it!

[wallrat]

I appreciate the warning Bill, but I plan to keep the Tachi until I'm sure the Chamonix is the right choice. Only after I'm sure will I sell it. I have had a number of occasions over the past 6 months where the limited bellows has been a big problem. So, while I do really like the camera, it's beginning to be a limiting factor in a couple of my favorite projects. I'm making the decision for a reason, not just because I'm bored. I'm more curious with anyone who has owned a Chamonix and had particular issues I should take in to consideration.

After reading my original post, I realized that I left this out even though it was in my mind the entire time. Sorry about that.

[ImSoNegative]

any kind of view-field camera is going to draw attention, this is the digital age and if you have something that looks old it will draw attention. Ive had my shen hao now for about 3 years, i bought it brand new from badger. 2 days after i bought it i took it out for a shoot, first person that saw it came up to me "that is a really nice camera" I replied " thanks" he said in return "is that from like the turn of the century?"

[Ken Lee]

This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEJ0GMWJk-Y) shows the features and live operation of the Chamonix. It will give you a sense of the usability and workflow.

The video points out that some of the controls are shared to save weight. For example, front rise and tilt are controlled by loosening one set of knobs. You may or may not care.

Light weight aside, the core value proposition of field cameras like the Chamonix (in my humble opinion) is generous bellows draw. I went from a Tachihara to a Wisner Technical Field, which (like the Canham DLC (http://www.canhamcameras.com/DLC2.html) and Chamonix) gives enough to accommodate a 450mm standard lens like the Fujinon C or Nikkor M, and to shoot at 1:1 with a 210mm lens.

Unlike the Chamonix, the Wisner and Canham do not require (temporary) addition of an extension rail: they just rack all the way out. Depending on how you work, that may or may not matter.

I sold the Wisner and got a Tachihara again, in spite of the more limited bellows draw. Why ? Because technical matters aside, I had noticeably better luck with the Tachihara :cool:

[lbenac]

Here are my two cents.
I own a Chamonix 45N-2 (45N) and I own a Wista 45DX (45DX) (very close to the Tachihara) that I just used exclusively for 2 weeks in France.

45Dx
Faster/Easier to setup than 45N, Small lens stay on. This is important to me when travelling and a big plus.
Realisticaly takes only up to 210mm maybe 240mm pushing it. I missed my 300mm.
Definitly not has rigid than the 45N. Windy days in Provence were not the best...

45N
Rigid and solidly built. Take 300mm without any qualm.
My only gripe - I hate having to screw the front standard every time I setup. I prefer the folding standard of the 45DX with marks on the bed for each focal lenght at infinity.

So in summary the built and rigidity of the Chamonix is better in my view than the Wista. The price to pay is for me a more awkard setup and adjutments of the standards.
In terms of "photographic" capability the Chamonix offers more. In terms of ease of use the Wista is better (IMHO).

I have both and will keep both. The Wista stays in France (where I go every year to visit the family) and will make the yearly round of the small villages, castles and town with me. The Chamonix stays in Canada for the great outdoors.

Cheers,

Luc

[Brian Ellis]

I've owned two Tachiharas and one Chamonix (the first version). Chamonix has a longer bellows and more movements as I'm sure you know. I don't remember it feeling significantly bulkier or heavier than the Tachihara. The main difference other than bellows and movements for me was that it was more complicated to set up and take down, which is the downside of having more movements. The system used to position the front standard (i.e. the holes in the bed) took a little getting used to. It wasn't any more rigid or solid than my Tachiharas but all in all I thought it was more camera for not much more money and if I were buying today I'd buy the Chamonix rather than the Tachihara.

[Preston]

I have both cameras, and now use my Chamonix 045N-2 exclusively. My Tachi has seen some hard use (I bought it used) and is getting long in the tooth, so some of it rigidity is gone. It did take a little time to get used to the Chamonix's lens standard mounting system for set up and take down, but once I got dialed in, the process goes quickly.

One thing that has not been mentioned is the Tachi has base tilt on both standards, while the Chamonix has axis tilt on the front and base tilt on the rear. Learning to use the axis tilt efficiently and effectively took a bit of a paradigm shift. You'll want to be prepared for that should you go for the Chamonix.

If you plan to use lenses longer than a 360mm, you'll need the extension board from Chamonix.

The Chamonix is a beautiful camera, well designed and superbly constructed--it's worth every dime, in my opinion.

--P

[wallrat]

I appreciate all the replies and this is the exact feedback I'm wanting. Wile I still want the portability of a field camera for when I shoot out of the house (mostly urban exploration, etc), I've been doing a lot of studio still life lately with my antique lenses. That has included a lot of macro or close to macro work and that is where I've been hitting the bellows limit on the Tachi. I'm fairly certain I'll get the Chamonix now. I'm rarely if ever in a serious hurry as the things I shoot are rarely fleeting like certain landscapes, etc can be so the extra setup isn't an issue. That's interesting about axis tilt in the front but not in the back. It makes sense from an engineering perspective though and while I've read about the difference and benefits of axis tilt, I've never used it so it will take a bit of getting used to. In the end, I think it's little risk. Worst case is I decide to keep the Tachihara and sell the Chamonix for a small loss. I'll just consider it a "use fee" :)

Thanks again for the time and information,
-Bill

[Frank Petronio]

Or keep the Tachi since it's resale value is less than a Chamonix. And pick up one of the $250 metal monorails with unlimited movements and infinite bellows for your studio work and extreme lenses. The total investment would be about the same as a Chamonix but you'd have a better studio camera and a really fine, light field camera.

[Ken Lee]

What Frank says.

I got a Sinar P for less than the price of a Chamonix or any other field camera for that matter, and now wouldn't dream of using a field camera in the studio or close work, except in a pinch: they are just too limiting and awkward when compared to a camera with smooth geared movements in all directions, both front and rear.

If studio work is your primary reason for considering a different field camera, then swapping one field camera for another may not bring joy.

[Doremus Scudder]

45Dx
Faster/Easier to setup than 45N, Small lens stay on. This is important to me when travelling and a big plus.
Realisticaly takes only up to 210mm maybe 240mm pushing it. I missed my 300mm...


Bonjour Luc,

I use a 300mm Nikkor M on my Wista DX all the time with a top-hat (extended) lensboard. I made mine myself, but you can find them easily. Mine has about 50mm of extension and lets me focus down to about 3m or less with the 300mm.

I have a Zone VI that takes up to 450mm, but carry my DX most of the time for the reasons you mentioned; lightweight, compact and a small lens will fold up inside it.

Best,

Doremus

[lbenac]

Bonjour Luc,

I use a 300mm Nikkor M on my Wista DX all the time with a top-hat (extended) lensboard. I made mine myself, but you can find them easily. Mine has about 50mm of extension and lets me focus down to about 3m or less with the 300mm.

I have a Zone VI that takes up to 450mm, but carry my DX most of the time for the reasons you mentioned; lightweight, compact and a small lens will fold up inside it.

Best,

Doremus

Hello Doremus,

That is good to know - thanks.
My Dx has some mileage and might have lost some of its rigidity during the years (it is a KEH bargain - really a bargain at $380 :-) ) but I will consider this next year when I go back to France.

Cheers,

Luc

[Michael Graves]

I have had a number of occasions over the past 6 months where the limited bellows has been a big problem.

Just how much of a limitation has it been? There is such thing as a "top-hat" lens board that will give you about 1.5" extra extension.

[wallrat]

It's a big limitation. The bellows are under 300mm. I had a monorail for years and sold it because I never used it. For personal preference reasons, I want 1. I know I'll have a limitation somewhere, but I don't need any more movements than the Chamonix (or the tachi really) I just need more bellows. I've made up my mind to buy a Chamonix before Christmas and give it a good, through working over a few months then decide what to do. I appreciate everyone's feedback.

-Bill

[Kirk Gittings]

FWIW, I used a Tachi for many years, like 15-20 back in the day, for both my personal and commercial work. I have not owned a Chamonix but have used one and I do own a Phillips which the Chamonix design is based on. I actually would prefer the Chamonix as a workhorse camera hands down. Primarily it is much more versatile with interchangeable bellows etc. and most importantly it is dramatically more rigid.

[Ken Lee]

It's a big limitation. The bellows are under 300mm.

Perhaps I'm confused about which camera you're discussing, but the bellows draw on the Tachihara Field Camera is 330mm.

I regularly use a 300mm lens (at infinity or a bit closer), and can get down to 1:1 with a 150mm lens (or shorter).

[Joseph Dickerson]

No one has mentioned that the Chamonix has a Graflok back, which most Tachiharas (Tachiharae?) did not. May or may not matter.

Size and weight issue between the two is insignificant. Interchangeable bellows, longer (universal) bellows and better build quality (hang on, I'll get my asbestos suit) of the Chamonix would be the deciding factor for me. Difference in set up speed is really a small matter that wouldn't matter to me, but may to you.

JD

[Kuzano]

No one has mentioned that the Chamonix has a Graflok back, which most Tachiharas (Tachiharae?) did not. May or may not matter.

JD

Graflok on a Tachi is easy. I milled (rather planed) the ribs off the back of a Tachihara film back and mounted a Graflex Graflok back with the hood door. I left the corners exposed on the wood back and it turns portrait for landscape as do most wood field cameras. Cost... labor and $85 for a Graflex Graflok back from eBay.

[chuck94022]

You won't regret the Chamonix. I was going to sell my Wista after I bought the Chamonix, but my wife talked me out of it. So I've kept both, but really enjoy the Chamonix.

I like the longer bellows draw (with the long universal bellows, which also handles my 65mm lens with no problem).

The added time to remove a lens is not a big deal, since the only lens that can stay in my Wista is my 135, and I am frequently using a different lens.

I love axis tilt on the front, and is one of the reasons I bought the Chamonix. It makes adjusting tilt while looking at the ground glass easier, since it isn't also moving the lens forward or backward. The fact that the back does not also do axis tilt seems irrelevant to me, since I generally use back tilt for perspective correction only. I'm never working on a focus solution that requires tilting both along the axis. YMMV of course.

I also make heavy use of the graflok back, which my Wista didn't have (as far as I recall anyway). I have a couple of rollfilm backs I sometimes use (6x7 and 6x12).

Keep both cameras if you can. You can never have too many cameras!

[jerryymjin]

The Chamonix will soon to make the type 45n3 for some improving which the news from the designer of the Chamonix.
So just keep the Tachi.