What are you replacing Efke 25 with?

[gevalia]

Finally got my life back to where I have one and whoa, Efke/Adox go away! Luckily I have a year of 4x5 Efke 25 which is my favorite but if you love the film as I do, have you found a replacement?

Cheers,
Ron

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Not yet. I've got enough in 8x10, 11x14 and some Bergger 200 in 14x17. Only 15 sheets in 8x20:-( Efke 25 in 8x20 is something. I'll see what I find as a replacement and report.

[Sylvester Graham]

That there was a thick, old style emulsion. Pretty much all gone as far as I know. You can try making your own, although I'm not sure homemade panchromatic emulsion is practical.

And forget about old style, I worry that Ilford will be the only manufacturer of LF film in a few years. And if silver prices shoot up, who knows. If only chemists had spent 100 years figuring out a way to make iron salts faster, if such a thing is possible.

Maybe boutique private companies will rise up to replace the hole that Kodak and Fuji (and Ilford?) will leave, but I bet a bunch of these will be poorly run kickstarters or the pet project of a retired and wealthy engineer.

[wallrat]

I stocked up as well. I hope Foma will come out with something. I don't think Illford is going anywhere film wise as they have a new film coming out and just recently released a new paper. Silver prices are definitely the key variable!

[Jiri Vasina]

Yes, it was a terrible surprise for me: I got down to less than half a box of 8x10" Adox/Efke 25, wanted to order more and couldn't find it anywhere. No more slow/no grain films like this I'm afraid... It seems I'd have to substitute it with Foma 100.

Jiri

[polyglot]

TMX would be the obvious substitute if it's the grain that matters to you. Different curve though.

[Curt]

It's a difficult loss, I have no answer to the question. For LF and ULF it's a stunning situation.

[IanG]

I stocked up as well. I hope Foma will come out with something. I don't think Illford is going anywhere film wise as they have a new film coming out and just recently released a new paper. Silver prices are definitely the key variable!

Can you enlighten us with regards to a new Ilford film ?

Ian

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I'm thinking of the Foma/Arista line. The 100? I need to test some. Could they do a special order run of ULF? I will ask Freestyle at some point.

[Philippe Grunchec]

Jim, you'll find the Foma 100 as NP22 in ULF at Wephota's http://wephota.de/down/wephota/wepr.pdf

[gevalia]

I have not used the Foma 100 in a few years but if I recall correctly, the reciprocity failure was unweildly. The Efke 25 reciprocity for me was pretty good. I don't shoot anything behond say 8 minutes and Efke 25 was damned good therebouts. But that was just 1 of the many reasons why I loved the film.

[wallrat]

I use Foma 100 (Arista.EDU ULTRA 100) in 4x5 as much as I use Efke but I haven't tested it's reciprocity as I haven't shot at night much lately (sad since I love night shooting). I'm interested to know what you find out as I love that film in both 4x5 and 35mm! It looks so good at either 50 or 100 iso with PMK Pyro or stand developed in 1:100 Rodinal.

[Roger Cole]

I stocked up as well. I hope Foma will come out with something. I don't think Illford is going anywhere film wise as they have a new film coming out and just recently released a new paper. Silver prices are definitely the key variable!


Can you enlighten us with regards to a new Ilford film ?

Ian

Wondering that myself. The only thing I'm aware of is that, when some of us on APUG were bemoaning the loss of IR820, Simon said Ilford could easily make an infrared film but doubted the market was there, then he promised to take it up the ladder and see what happened. But I've heard nothing else on that score.

I'm not replacing it with anything. I really don't have any use for anything as slow as 25, at least not unless it has some other overriding quality to make me tolerate that kind of lack of speed. In a previous discussion some folks mentioned intentionally long exposures for motion studies. I can see the appeal for that.

[andreios]

Jim, you'll find the Foma 100 as NP22 in ULF at Wephota's http://wephota.de/down/wephota/wepr.pdf

Philippe, you mean that the wephota emulsions are actually foma? Or is it only the 100ASA film? If so, what about the 25ASA? I was just thinking about ordrering a package or two..

[Philippe Grunchec]

No, the NP15 is the late Efke/Adox 25!

[IanG]

I use Foma 100 (Arista.EDU ULTRA 100) in 4x5 as much as I use Efke but I haven't tested it's reciprocity as I haven't shot at night much lately (sad since I love night shooting). I'm interested to know what you find out as I love that film in both 4x5 and 35mm! It looks so good at either 50 or 100 iso with PMK Pyro or stand developed in 1:100 Rodinal.

About 3 or 4 years ago I did some practical tests of Fomapan 100 & 200 to check out the reciprocity, I found that it was nowhere near as bad as Foma suggest.

At 1 second it was approx 1/3 of a stop, at 10 seconds about a stop, however those were conditions I'd shoot with. It's why Ilford just use a generic table for all their films it's important to test under the same conditions you'll shoot with.

I'll miss EFKE/Adox KB/R/PL 25 I began using it in the early 1970's when it was still called KB14 (or R & PL) the old DIN name. It was the first thin modern ultra fine grain emulsion when it was released in the early 1950's and it wasn't until Agfa AP25 many years later that another film got close in terms of fine grain & sharpness.

Ian

[tautatis]

What I find puzzling in the photographic industry is the deth of both film and film camera companies. I also have another hobby that has enslaved me for quite a long time -Hifi (equipment). It is also puzzling how the (analogue music) vinyl, turntable, and tubes have made a come back - roaring. What is very strange is how expensivethese equipments are, but yet "nut cases" still support the hifi companies. As some of you know already, it is easy to find a $100K turntable leave alone Audio Research $10K amps etc. Similarly more companies are sprouting out with speakers in the rage of $10K - $30k easily. The big question is, what is Kodak, Agfa, Fuji, Ilford etc doing wrong to keep film photography relatively robust? Curious to hear your contrasting views!

[wallrat]

Hey guys, my info on the new film was from an Illford source but wasn't a promise and was without specifics. It was posted publicly somewhere (was within the last year) and I'll have to find it. I completely misspoke and should have said "they just released a new paper and rumor has it that they may have a new film coming out". Sorry for the way I originally wrote that, it was pre-coffee this morning.

I think Tautatis' question is a good one and I'm interested in hearing other's input / views as well. One issue I see is the lack of any advertising (that I see) in magazines like Popular Photography. I think it would help to not only sponsor traditional ads but also sponsor or suggest articles that can help those just getting in to photography know about film as a viable alternative and how to implement it solo, or in addition to, digital. Pop Photo really started to annoy me as I would see a number of backhanded comments speaking of film as "dead", "unnecessary", "for hipsters" or "worthless", however, in the past few months, the growing resurgence has even been too much for them to ignore. I do know that Pop Photo is not the best magazine for established artists or any photo professional really, but I do appreciate the ability to keep up with current gear. One other thought is the lack of new, professional or enthusiast level, film cameras. Ignoring the fact that that isn't as true for LF, we have to remember that almost zero film photographers start with LF. I *think* Nikon still makes a film camera or 2 (FM10 and maybe one more) as does Vivitar, but I think the FM10 and the Vivitar are both student level cameras. While I'm fairly certain we will never see another new Canon film camera, it would really help to have a manufacturer or 2 spitting out new, relatively affordable, 35mm film slr's that includes at least a basic range of beginner, intermediate (enthusiast), and pro models.

[Curt]

I bought what I could at the last minute scramble. So much for a lifetime supply but at least enough for a good going away party. Where all this film supply is going is anybodies guess. I think all of the manufacturers are known so it's going to be an existing company who comes up with any new emulsions or sizes. Kodak?, Ilford / Harmon?, Fuji?, Europe?, China? It looks like a gray picture.

Any size you want, any emulsion you want, as long as you want what they offer, once a year. Get prepared for next years run from Ilford. I'll be in on that one. If nothing more than to keep film alive. Every box counts!

[Roger Cole]

Adox is now having some film coated in Germany (Inoviscoat or some such name) and I think are looking to coat a replacement for Efke 25.

[polyglot]

What I find puzzling in the photographic industry is the deth of both film and film camera companies. I also have another hobby that has enslaved me for quite a long time -Hifi (equipment). It is also puzzling how the (analogue music) vinyl, turntable, and tubes have made a come back - roaring. What is very strange is how expensivethese equipments are, but yet "nut cases" still support the hifi companies. As some of you know already, it is easy to find a $100K turntable leave alone Audio Research $10K amps etc. Similarly more companies are sprouting out with speakers in the rage of $10K - $30k easily. The big question is, what is Kodak, Agfa, Fuji, Ilford etc doing wrong to keep film photography relatively robust? Curious to hear your contrasting views!

Getting a bit OT here but I think there are two factors. First is that building an amplifier is pretty easy - an enthusiast can do it in their bedroom using off-the-shelf componentry bought online; it's a little more involved than building an LF camera, but not by much. It's therefore pretty easy for an audiophile startup company (and note that all the $$$ stuff is from tiny bespoke companies) to operate from the garden shed and produce quality products in small quantities. Manufacturing film is orders of magnitude more difficult, requiring a significant capital investment in special-purpose machinery just to produce something that would be sub-par for 1950.

Second factor is the "nutcase" market who buy this stuff, presumably for status-symbol value rather than sound quality. Spending $100k on audiophile snakeoil/baubles as a public statement of how rich you are is a low-risk proposition: you plunk down the cash, you get your toys, you put 'em on display and they make a nice noise. Cameras/film on the other hand require some skill to use and while there's certainly the "Doctor's Leica/Hasselblad" market, there's significant investment of time required before you get anything that will impress your friends, if at all. If you're clueless and want a photographic bauble, it's easier to drop huge cash on big white lenses etc - at least your friends are likely to understand those.

[patrickjames]

I am bummed that Efke is going away. I have been using their PL100 for the last few years and really like it. I have my holders filled with Foma 100 right now but I don't know if I will stick with it due to the lack of an anti-halation layer. I will probably end up using FP4 when all is said and done. Really can't beat Ilford quality.

I thought I read that at some point Adox might resurrect APX25. Don't hold your breath though. I am still waiting for them to come out with the replacement for Agfa APX400 they have been promising for a couple years now.

[searover]

I just went to the www.ADOX.de website under Art Series and it says (dated Sept, 1, 2012)

"1.9.2012:
Important notice: CHS films and ORTHO films have been manufactured by Fotokemika. Due to the production stop at Fotokemika´s we need to discontinue these films.
All ADOX Premium Line products are not affected by this as they are made by us in Germany.
We try to offer you replacements for the affected products as soon as possible."

Lets hope...

John

[Roger Cole]

I am bummed that Efke is going away. I have been using their PL100 for the last few years and really like it. I have my holders filled with Foma 100 right now but I don't know if I will stick with it due to the lack of an anti-halation layer. I will probably end up using FP4 when all is said and done. Really can't beat Ilford quality.

I thought I read that at some point Adox might resurrect APX25. Don't hold your breath though. I am still waiting for them to come out with the replacement for Agfa APX400 they have been promising for a couple years now.

Um, lack of anti-halation in Foma? That's the first I've heard of it. I've shot some 4x5 and 120 and don't see any evidence of that.

[IanG]

I thought I read that at some point Adox might resurrect APX25. Don't hold your breath though. I am still waiting for them to come out with the replacement for Agfa APX400 they have been promising for a couple years now.

Some of the chemicals needed to make APX25 are no longer manufactured which was why Agfa stopped making it, Mirko of Fotoimpex (Adox) has indicated that there's no chance of a replacement, sales were low anyway when Agfa made it.

Ian

[IanG]

There's no problems with halation with Foma films they have good anti-halation properties.

Ian

[Roger Cole]

There's no problems with halation with Foma films they have good anti-halation properties.

Ian

My experience as well. Ironically Efke made film without an AH layer, but this was intentional and offered both ways, IR820 and Aura. I think some of the Rollei branded films made by Agfa as aerial films also lack an AH layer, but no other modern films I can think of.

[Drew Wiley]

Efke 25 has a primitive anti-halation coating requiring particular care. A buddy of mine got
back from a two week trip with heavy packs into arguably the most remote spot in the
Sierra. He had been careful to load his Efke in the shade. But when we finally got to our
cars to camp one last nite, he pulled out his tupperware box full of exposed film to show
me how many rolls of 120 film he had exposed. He was wearing a halogen headlamp at the
time, and sure enough, half his hard-earned shots were spoiled by light piping streaks.

[patrickjames]

I posted the Foma statement last night when I was tired breaking one of the invariable internet rules.... I misspoke when I said Foma films had no anti-halation layer. I am not even sure why I wrote that to be honest. I should have written that it has poor anti-halation properties compared to Ilford which is what I was thinking of when I wrote that. The glow combined with its bias in the reds makes it an interesting film. I use it quite often in 35mm to tone down the microsharpness of Zeiss lenses and also to give a little oomph to skin tones. I just don't think I will replace Efke PL100 with it in 4x5.

I should mention that I am evaluating the film as someone who often includes the sun in the shot so on a general basis I can see why you may think Foma films are fine whereas I don't for my purposes in admittedly an extreme situation.

[Tim Povlick]

Is the Efke 50 similar to the 25?

Tim

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Tim, as far as I understand it the 25 and 50 were the same emulsion just different speeds but the sensitivity was the same. I bought some boxes of the 8x10 50 when the 25 became unavailable.

[AuditorOne]

I am interested in hearing about any possible contenders for the ISO 25 crown whenever anyone comes up with one. Fortunately I have enough Efke ISO 25 or 50 on hand where I won't be needing a replacement for a few more years.

Right now my black and white films of choice are Arista EDU (Foma) in ISO 100 and 400. I have started playing with Arista EDU 100 at ISO 50 to get a handle on its response at those lower speeds, and with Arista EDU 400 at ISO 1600 to get a sense of what does or does not work at the higher sensitivities.

I am also experimenting with Pan F Plus at ISO 25 to determine how it responds under different lighting conditions and what effect different developers have. Once I run out of Efke 25 I will hopefully have enough information and experience with Pan F to make it work whenever I need a slower film.

Finally, I don't necessarily think that coating our own ISO 25 films is totally out of the question, for me anyway. We may find that we need to develop new skill sets in order to keep on shooting film. If Ron's workshop is still on for March at the George Eastman House I will be there with bells on. Hopefully I'll find that this old dog can learn some new tricks.

It is certainly interesting times that we live in.

[Jiri Vasina]

Jim, you'll find the Foma 100 as NP22 in ULF at Wephota's http://wephota.de/down/wephota/wepr.pdf


Philippe, you mean that the wephota emulsions are actually foma? Or is it only the 100ASA film? If so, what about the 25ASA? I was just thinking about ordrering a package or two..

Philippe, Andrej,

Wephota NP22 is a different film, it's definitely not Foma 100.

Wephota NP15 (ISO25) is a great film too (have a look here http://www.vasina.net/?tag=wephota-np-15), but not as good as Efke 25/Adox 25... different spectral sensitivity, but a good one...

Jiri

[Jiri Vasina]

Is the Efke 50 similar to the 25?

Tim


Tim, as far as I understand it the 25 and 50 were the same emulsion just different speeds but the sensitivity was the same. I bought some boxes of the 8x10 50 when the 25 became unavailable.

Tim and Jim, I have not tried Efke50, but have shot quite a few Adox CHS 25. From the info sheets, the spectral sensitivity of those 2 films should be different, so not just a different film speed...

Jiri

[Tim Povlick]

Tim, as far as I understand it the 25 and 50 were the same emulsion just different speeds but the sensitivity was the same. I bought some boxes of the 8x10 50 when the 25 became unavailable.

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the information. Like you, I bought a box of the 50 when the 25 ran out. It arrives today and will use the long holiday to test.

Best Regards,

Tim

[Tim Povlick]

Tim and Jim, I have not tried Efke50, but have shot quite a few Adox CHS 25. From the info sheets, the spectral sensitivity of those 2 films should be different, so not just a different film speed...

Jiri

Hi Jiri,

Thanks for that tip, will watch for this as testing / use of the film progresses. I will likely 'park' on Ilford Delta 100 as it seems a very good film and the company seems will be the last one standing.

Your images linked from the "Wephota NP15" comments are terrific! I like the motor bike especially. Also some nice gear you have.

All the Best,

Tim

Your images

[gevalia]

Tim,

I had tried the Efke 50 and 100 in 4x5 a few years ago and just did not care for either. You know how it is, you test a few sheets and if it doesn't grab you, you move on. I then tried the 25 in Pyrocat HD and just loved it. A friend gave me a very old bottle of Rodinal complete with crusty top. I developed 6 sheets of the 25 and it became my slow film of choice. I'd be interested in hearing what your reaction is to PL50.

Juri - is Wephota NP15 film available or had it been discontinued?

Ron

[Drew Wiley]

Auditor - Efke 25 and Pan F are very different animals. I don't know your potential applications, but if it involves high-contrast lighting ratios typical of outdoor use in your
part of the world, Pan F is quite restrictive. It has a short straight line and long toe. You
will lose at least two stops of the shadow value you were accustomed to with Efke 25, so
this film is better suited to softer lighting. I have successfully used it in the mts and desert, but selectively, depending on the lighting. Pan F is ordinary pan, while Efke 25 is
Orthopan (like ACROS), so there is also this significant difference. Rollei 25 seems to be
intermediate in characteristics - pan and likewise very high acutance, but certainly no
substitute for the special qualities of Efke 25. Contact printers obviously had their own
reasons for appreciating the very long scale of Efke 25. I use PMK pyro for all these, though a special dilution for Pan F to help retrieve as much highlt value as possible.

[Jiri Vasina]

Hi Jiri,

Thanks for that tip, will watch for this as testing / use of the film progresses. I will likely 'park' on Ilford Delta 100 as it seems a very good film and the company seems will be the last one standing.

Your images linked from the "Wephota NP15" comments are terrific! I like the motor bike especially. Also some nice gear you have.

All the Best,

Tim

Your images

Thanks a lot, Tim.




...
Juri - is Wephota NP15 film available or had it been discontinued?

Ron

Ron, at the moment I don't know, but I'm in the process of finding out... it is still listed at wephota's website (http://www.wephota.de/fotoprd.htm) with no word about it's discontinuance. But it would also seem they don't update that site often... Here in this webshop - Lumiére (http://www.lumiere-shop.de/index.php?page=categorie&cat=640), they still list Wephota film, and there is nothing listed in their Adox category... so it would seem it is still available. I'm still considering it, but I think I'll order something to fill my freezer with... :D

Jiri

[Gary L. Quay]

I bought as much Efke film as I could when I heard the news. I have a couple years worth, so I hope that Adox will find a replacement by then. If not, Arista.edu (Foma) 100 will the closest thing out there that I know of. Well, nothing is really close, but until we convince Ilford to make PanF 50 in large format, I think we're out of luck.

--Gary

[Andrew O'Neill]

Got about 25 sheets left of efke 25. It's with my other boxes of "precious" films.

Roger, as far as Ilford making an infra-red goes, all they would have to do is coat their sfx 200 emulsion on 4x5 and even better, 8x10. I'd buy it all day and twice on Sunday.

[Curt]

I have 100 of Efke 25 & 100 of Efke 50 in 8x10. In 5x7 I have about 200 sheets of 25, I have a couple hundred 25 in 4x5 and a couple hundred 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Efke 25 in sheets also. I have a few 120 rolls left in 25.

In 11x14 I have just 50 sheets of Efke 100 and 100 sheets of Ilford FP4+.

This doesn't include the Kodak Tri-X, and a lot of J&C film and more ilford sheet film plus CHS in 4x5 and roll film. I have a little left of Panatomic-X and Agfa Pan 25 and Rollei Pan 25.

I suppose I'll get by for a while. Then there is Xray film.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I've got a good stash of Efke as well. My only problem was that I did not stock up on 8x20. I shot some 5x7 Arista 100 and still need to get a handle on developing it. More exposures are necessary.

[AuditorOne]

Auditor - Efke 25 and Pan F are very different animals. I don't know your potential applications, but if it involves high-contrast lighting ratios typical of outdoor use in your
part of the world, Pan F is quite restrictive. It has a short straight line and long toe. You
will lose at least two stops of the shadow value you were accustomed to with Efke 25, so
this film is better suited to softer lighting. I have successfully used it in the mts and desert, but selectively, depending on the lighting. Pan F is ordinary pan, while Efke 25 is
Orthopan (like ACROS), so there is also this significant difference. Rollei 25 seems to be
intermediate in characteristics - pan and likewise very high acutance, but certainly no
substitute for the special qualities of Efke 25. Contact printers obviously had their own
reasons for appreciating the very long scale of Efke 25. I use PMK pyro for all these, though a special dilution for Pan F to help retrieve as much highlt value as possible.

I've noticed that Drew. I have been playing with different development techniques to overcome those issues but have not been terribly successful so far. I haven't tried using PMK/Pyro but will likely give that a try.

I haven't spent a lot of time looking for a replacement yet since I am still stocking up on Efke 25 every few weeks and will continue to do so until I can't find it anymore. I have noticed that MacoDirect is selling a Rollei Pan 25 film that is advertised as the exact same film as Efke 25. Perhaps between what I have on ice, what Freestyle is selling, and what MacoDirect is selling, I will not need to worry about a replacement for awhile.

I remember a posting a little while ago from someone saying that you could replace any film if you experimented enough with exposure and developing. That may be true, I don't know, but I think that replacing Efke 25 will not be quite as easy as some may think. But I am an optimist. There is still a market for a good, ISO 25 black and white film so I believe someone will try to fill that gap at some point in the near future.

[gevalia]

Can anyone who has used Efke 25 ORT "Tropical" tell me the differences I would encounter between the tropical and non-tropical emulsions? I noticed the tropical version on Freestyle and scarfed up a few boxes of 4x5. From what I have read, it is exactly the same film (long scale, sensitivity) as the non-tropical version I love except to develop it at a higher temp. Is this true? I normally develop the non-tropical at 68 degrees in pyrocat HD, what changes would I need to make for the tropical version?

Thanks,
Ron

[andreios]

Regarding the mentioned Wephota NP15, I have recieved this reply from Mr. Grohmann, head of photographic materials at b&g (Wephota):


NP 15 ist ein 25 ASA Negativplanfilm von der Filmotec Wolfen (ehemals Forschung(ORWO) entwickelten Emulsion und Beguss in Leverkusen.

So it is NOT Efke 25 and was not made by Fotokemika, It is a former ORWO emulsion made today by a German company. And I was told they plan to make it at least in 2013. If anyone is interested in the technical sheets, PM me and I'll send it to you.

[Tocal]

Wow! Filmotec makes B/W-Cinema-Film which is said to have a pretty good quality. So it is possible that NP15 is actually a better choice than Efke25. I am really dared to try that film...

[wallrat]

Hi guys. I had said a while back that aside from Illford's new B&W paper, they were releasing a new film. I remembered wrong. They are releasing more cameras based on film. They currently have their pinhole (which is crazy priced I think) and now this http://www.ilfordphoto.com/pressroom/article.asp?n=154. Sorry if I lead anyone astray with my comment.

[Jiri Vasina]

Wow! Filmotec makes B/W-Cinema-Film which is said to have a pretty good quality. So it is possible that NP15 is actually a better choice than Efke25. I am really dared to try that film...

I have used both films, Wephota NP15 and Adox CHS 25 Art/Efke 25, and I would not say that either of them is significantnly better than the other one... They are both good, a bit different spectral response, but very nice to work with. Adox has better packaging, even has a paper sheet interleaved between every film sheets. But that also means the packaging bulkier...

Jiri

[Tocal]

I have used both films, Wephota NP15 and Adox CHS 25 Art/Efke 25, and I would not say that either of them is significantnly better than the other one... They are both good, a bit different spectral response, but very nice to work with. Adox has better packaging, even has a paper sheet interleaved between every film sheets. But that also means the packaging bulkier...

Jiri

Hi Jiri,

thank you for the given information! Can you tell more about the physical quality of NP15? Efke-film sometimes had problems with pinholes in the emulsion. How is the NP15 in this regard?

Thanks and greetings,

Tobias

[Jiri Vasina]

Well, I don't think I had any problems with Adox/Efke 25 and pinholes or such. And neither did I notice any pinholes in the NP15. I very rarely have issues with Fomapan 100 - very rarely, I could count the afflicted sheets on one (maimed? :D ) hand, and I have shot upwards of 600 sheets of Foma 100 in different sizes. Of Wephota NP15, I have so far shot 150+ sheets, and did not notices anything. So nothing wrong. And would recommend that film...

Jiri

[Lachlan 717]

The latest Freestyle email is suggesting some new slow sheet film.

[wallrat]

I emailed them a couple of weeks ago and linked back to this thread. I made the case for slow sheet film. The reply said that they would look into it. I'm not sure it had anything to do with the news, but it definitely didn't hurt.

[Lachlan 717]

In case you don't get the newsletter, here's what I'm referring to:

"With the closure of the Fotokemika factory in Croatia, we have received many calls and emails inquiring as to what choices are available for slow speed sheet film besides Ilford Pan F. Adox CMS 20 II will be available in sheet film sizes. In addition, Adox and Rollei are working on a new 25 ISO film available in all popular formats including 35mm, 120 and sheet film sizes. We will keep you updated as to the availability of these films."

[wallrat]

I wasn't aware you could get PanF in sheet film sizes? I thought MF was the largest.

[Tony Evans]

Me too.

[wallrat]

That has to be a typo. Either they are going to release it (That would be nice even give the differences between it and Efke) or they meant FP4 (which isn't really slow).

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=5&t=Black+%26+White+Films

-Bill

[polyglot]

Pan-F in 4x5 would be a wonderful, wonderful thing, and I'm gonna keep saying it until they notice and coat some ;)

I do realise the base thickness difference and market-size issues here, but I'd prefer Pan-F over FP4 in sheet sizes.

[Lachlan 717]

Pan-F in 4x5 would be a wonderful, wonderful thing, and I'm gonna keep saying it until they notice and coat some ;)

I do realise the base thickness difference and market-size issues here, but I'd prefer Pan-F over FP4 in sheet sizes.

Simon Galley (Ilford/Harman) posted his thoughts on running Pan F sheet film on APUG back at the start of 2006:

the coating would need to be on sheet film base, minimum coating regimes would not make the product viable as waste would be astronomic and the required stock produced would take too long to sell and would consequently go out of date.

I wonder how the [current] lack of competition affects these considerations? I wonder whether Pan F sheet could be added to the annual ULF offering…

[polyglot]

Yep, I totally understand why they don't do it. An Annual Run arrangement would suffice for me but that doesn't solve Ilford's problem: the Annual Run is just a special-case of cutting without coating emulsions on different bases, just cutting the same thick base (already coated to make common sizes 4x5 and 8x10) to a bunch of odd sizes, so there's no increase in waste.

I'm puzzled about the concept of Pan-F expiring though... it seems to keep really well to me and maybe Ilford might consider extending their definition of "expired", especially if they're freezing it before sale. Its only problem that I've noticed is latent image stability, but I would expect Simon to understand their films far better than I do.

Doesn't mean I will stop wanting it. But if we're being realistic with ourselves, there's probably not much that Pan-F could do in LF sizes that FP4 can't, particularly if you're like me and can't print optically to stupid sizes like 30x40.

[Lachlan 717]

The main reason that I liked Efke 25 is for use with barrel lenses that I was shooting wide open.

As I mentioned earlier, chucking a 3 stop ND on the front and shooting 100 should still work.

[europanorama]

Regarding the mentioned Wephota NP15, I have recieved this reply from Mr. Grohmann, head of photographic materials at b&g (Wephota):



So it is NOT Efke 25 and was not made by Fotokemika, It is a former ORWO emulsion made today by a German company. And I was told they plan to make it at least in 2013. If anyone is interested in the technical sheets, PM me and I'll send it to you.
NP was the very name of the old Orwo B+W films.
Btw: the polish counterparts were called Foton.
I was shooting ORWO CT18 when visiting my former country.

[Carsten Wolff]

This Russian "Type 88 K-25" aerospace film is supposedly "a very good technical slow speed film": http://www.tasma.ru/en/products/21/50/
Not wanting to unduly stir internet rumours: Anyone out there with actual experience with it? cheers!

[polyglot]

This Russian "Type 88 K-25" aerospace film is supposedly "a very good technical slow speed film": http://www.tasma.ru/en/products/21/50/
Not wanting to unduly stir internet rumours: Anyone out there with actual experience with it? cheers!

Hopefully you don't have to buy a 42cm * 1.3km roll of it though! Actual experience be damned, where do you buy it in "I'm not the Kremlin" volumes?

[David Aimone]

Should work, but I'm not looking forward to loading another device on my 4x5 after the brass petzval and packard shutter..... it will really look like a Rube Goldberg...


The main reason that I liked Efke 25 is for use with barrel lenses that I was shooting wide open.

As I mentioned earlier, chucking a 3 stop ND on the front and shooting 100 should still work.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Coming late to this discussion (my stock of original AGFA APX 25 is non-empty, but in 120 rolls only), since ADOX CMS 20 has been mentioned, the official ADOX web page mentions CMS 20 as available in 4x5" sheets.
http://www.adox.de/english/ADOX%20Films/Premium/ADOX_Films/ADOX_CMS_Films.html

However, I would not consider this film as a replacement to classical ISO 25 films like AGFA APX 25.
To the best of my knowledge, this film is a kind of a microfilm needing a very special developer. The spectral sensitiviy is said to be 'orthopanchromatic', which I understand as: not panchromatic, hence somewhat blind in the red ;)

But, yes, when you follow the recommended process (and pay for the very special chemistry) you are sure that no taking lens can pass all the resolution of this film, nor any enlarging lens nor any scanner can extract the grain of this film resolving 800 cy/mm (20,000 cy/inch, to be scanned at 40,000 samples per inch, not less, in order to retain full resolution) according to the manufacturer's specs ! This leaves digital imaging in the dust ;)

http://www.adox.de/CMS20_ADOTECHII_instructions.pdf

The good news are that this film is freshly coated.
The other good news is that fresh microfilm is currently being coated (among others, by Agfa-Gevaert, Mortsel, Belgium) due to the demand for a long term achival solution for digital data.
Guess what is an attractive long-term digital archival medium? Silver halide stuff ! Probably those digital data are stored as miniature checkerboard patterns, not as analogue documents on microfilm!

[William Barnett-Lewis]

Pan-F in 4x5 would be a wonderful, wonderful thing, and I'm gonna keep saying it until they notice and coat some ;)

I do realise the base thickness difference and market-size issues here, but I'd prefer Pan-F over FP4 in sheet sizes.

Gah, I'd be ecstatic if there were Pan F in 5x7... Ok, back to lurk mode...

[Frank Pittel]

I've been looking at getting a box of wephota plana-25. Has anyone tried this film?

[russyoung]

The main reason that I liked Efke 25 is for use with barrel lenses that I was shooting wide open.

As I mentioned earlier, chucking a 3 stop ND on the front and shooting 100 should still work.

Alas, with large soft focus lenses, there are no filters large enough... I still need ISO 25 sheet film!

[Roger Cole]

Alas, with large soft focus lenses, there are no filters large enough... I still need ISO 25 sheet film!

How big are we talking here? B&H lists circular ones up to 6" and rectangular ones up to 6.6"x6.6". You'd need to buy or make an appropriate holder, though.

That's for ND 3 stop filters as mentioned here. You'd actually need a two stop filter to drop 100 to 25, but if you shot the nominal 25 speed film at 12.5 and the nominal 100 at box speed three stops would be right.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Density+%28ND%29_0.9+%283-stops%29&ci=114&N=4207499357+4242329435

[andreios]

Sad news, friends, I have been talking to Mr. Grohmann regarding Wephota NP15 - the run of coating previously scheduled for March 2013 was cancelled and they are far from sure that there will be any further coating ever...

So, any better news? What about the mentioned plans of Adox and Rollei to produce slow sheet film?

[John Kasaian]

What beautiful pictures you have on your website, andreios!

[andreios]

What beautiful pictures you have on your website, andreios!

Thank you very much, John..

[David Aimone]

Old thread, but I'm down to the last two boxes of my favorite-ist film ever, and still haven't found anything that replaces it. Any news?

[AuditorOne]

Nothing yet.

I have tried Rollei RPX 25 (which is good) and Ilford Pan F at EI 25 (which is also good), but have not been able to get the same response from either.

I am not as close to being out as you are but keep hoping for an acceptable alternative. I keep waiting for something from ADOX but not yet.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I'm glad that I still have a few boxes in the freezer. I hope that someone steps up.

[David Aimone]

Efke was certainly unique and it a class alone by itself.

I've tried the Rollei, but it's so thin it's almost impossible to handle and develop without problems.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

My problem is that I need it in 8 x 10, 11 x 14 and 8 x 20!

[plaubel]

I just received some sheets of Ortho 25, which is no substitute for Efke 25, but which made me lucky some years ago, coming of a production from Fotokemika.

This time, Maco says it is a german production, which only can mean, that this is coated by Innoviscoat, and I remember a project between Impex and Innoviscoat...

However, yesterday I shot the first batch and I will develop in some minutes.

Ortho 25 comes in big sizes, too and has a thick layer, but an ugly cheap looking package, and no paper between the sheets, which I really would expect at this price.

Ritchie

[Daniel Unkefer]

I saw the end coming and stocked up when B&H was closing out PL100 & Efke 25.
I am investigating Orwo but it is not the same; But it has it's own qualities.

[Sylvester Graham]

What about the new Bergger 400? http://bergger.com/bergger-pancro-400-plans-films.html?___store=bergger_en&___from_store=bergger_fr

I bought some. Still in the freezer waiting to be tried.

[Lachlan 717]

What about the new Bergger 400? http://bergger.com/bergger-pancro-400-plans-films.html?___store=bergger_en&___from_store=bergger_fr

I bought some. Still in the freezer waiting to be tried.

I doubt that there is even a remote similarity. Comparing 25asa to 400asa is almost chalk and cheese...

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've got about 20, 8x10 sheets left... Saving it for summer. Then like a lot of other films that I have used, it'll be gone. Hopefully, I'll get some good images on it!!