Questions about 14" Kodak Commercial Ektar

[Tom Johnston]

I just bought an 8x10" camera that included a 14" Kodak Commercial Ektar in a No. 5 Ilex shutter. The seller said that the shutter worked perfectly, but I have found that that was an exaggeration to say the least. But that's OK because the glass looks pristine and I would want to get a CLA anyway. All of my other large format lenses are modern lenses in Copal shutters so I have a couple questions about his lens.

1) Does anyone know what the filter size for this lens is? I want to order lens caps for it.

2) It appears that to keep the lens open during composing and focusing, you have to put the lens on T (or B and lock with the cable release). Is that correct? I don't see any other way to lock the shutter open.

3) The shutter works smoothly (although I don't know if the speeds are accurate) when you use the lever on the shutter to operate it but it is very difficult to trip with a cable release and the shutter won't close at all in T (by pressing cable release button again) or B when releasing the cable release plunger. It appears that the cable release mechanism needs work. Has anyone experienced such a problem?

4) I noticed that when the lens is set to its maximum aperture the diaphram is closed down quite a bit. At first I thought, "What the heck?". Then I realized that the aperture adjustment was WAY off. When the aperture is set to its maximum f/6.3 it's really at about f/10. Has anyone ever seen an aperture adjustment this far off and do you know if this can be fixed? (When I push the aperture lever way past f/6.3 and get the diaphram fully open, the opening is about 2.2 inches {14" divided by 6.3} - which makes sense.)

5) I will probably send the lens to S.K. Grimes who did work for me in the past but I have learned that Steve passed away. Has anyone had work done by the new owners of the business and, if so, how is their work?

Thanks Much

[John Kasaian]

Tom,

Congratulations on your new lens!

1) Its not threaded for a filter--it requires a series type slip on adapter that slides---measure the diameter of the rim to find out what size---onto the rim and is threaded for series filters. I think its series 9. I've found it easier to use a Lee Gel-snap on holder for 4x4 filters.

2) I use T.

3) These old Ilex Universals usually require a longer "throw" than usual. You're actually cocking and tripping the shutter in one plunge. Try a Gepe "Pro" cable release(I like the ones with the Zeiss disc lock). If a Gepe won't trip it, chances are the internal plunger has migrated or worn and needs to be adjusted(that "a" in cla)

4) No. Thats probably part of the "a" in cla again.

Enjoy that wonderful lens!

[Michael Kadillak]

To add a bit to what John said, as far as a filter size goes I solver this problem for me by having SK Grimes make me a filter adapter for the odd size that remains screwed on the front of the lens and allows me to screw 77mm filters on as this was a common size I already had been using for several other lenses I use. I keep my B+W filters in their cases until I need to use one and just give them a quick delicate brush before I use them. Grimes anodized the adapter filter black and it looks like it came with the lens.

John covered the issue of the throw of the cable release with precision.

Lastly, I determined long ago that aperture adjustment is not a standard from lens to lens and as a result, it must be left for those that have the equipment to verify this variable.

I also use the "T" setting most of the time. If you do send your lens to Grimes, I would strongly recommend that you acquire a set of their hard plastic lenscaps custom milled for your Ektar. They are about $30 each, but the best investment you could make for protecting your lens. I have them on most of the lenses I use particularly the Wide angle lenses and the G Clarons.

Enjoy the new member to your optic family. I use mine with much satisfaction regularly. Good Shooting!

[Tom Johnston]

Thanks for the great information. I was thinking about Grimes make lens caps anyway and I think that is a great idea. I wouldn't think of not having caps for a lens.

I also like the idea of having a filter adapter mounted on the lens. The only problem is that I am standardized on 67mm filters for all my lenses as of now. I noticed that a 67mm filter slides right into the rim of the lens and since it rests on the bevel in front of the glass, it doesn't touch the glass, of course. It's almost a perfect fit. Of course, it could fall out if I wasn't careful but at least it's a way that I could use my existing filters for the time being. Then again, I could have the larger adapter put on by Grimes and, for now, insert the filter in the rear element. Make-shift, but it would work.

Thanks again.

[David Richhart]

Hi Tom... My 14" Commercial Ektar uses 72mm threaded filters on both the front and back. The difference in lenses may have something to do with the date of production???

Your lens can be dated by looking for the letters on the front of the lens. The letters represent numbers using the word "C-A-M-E-R-O-S-I-T-Y". The C is the number 1, A is number 2, etc. My lens has the letters "R-C" which date my lens to 1951.

The Ilex #5 shutters are not exactly precision instruments made from the finest materials. They are made of stamped out gears and parts, and were meant to be inexpensive. So a CLA will help it but do not expect miracles. I have an elderly watch repairman in the neighborhood that does shutters for me... he just shakes his head and smiles when I bring him an Ilex. Just learn to deal with it's moodiness, and fire it a few time to warm it up before you make the actual exposure.

It's really a great lens. I wouldn't part with mine. - Dave

[Ralph Barker]

Another option on the filters, Tom - if you use 100mm gel or resin filters, they can simply be held in front of the lens during exposure. While, in theory, improper alignment and any filter movement might introduce image degradation, I haven't found it to be a practical problem.

[Tom Johnston]

More good information. My lens is marked RA so now I know that it was made in 1952.

Yes, my lens does have filter threads and I was guessing that it was 72mm.

No problem with the shutter being a little temperamental and I always work my shutters a few times before making an exposure if I haven't used them in a while. But, as I mentioned, the aperture scale on this lens is WAY off. When you have it set to f/6.3, it is stopped down quite a bit. But hopefully that can be fixed when I send the lens in for CLA and to get the cable release mechanism fixed.

Has anyone sent a lens to S.K. Grimes now that it is run by new people? If so, did you like their work?

[Michael Kadillak]

I have had several jobs done by SK Grimes since Steve's unfortunate departure and they have all been completed to the same standard I have been accustomed to. Three CLA's, about six sets of lens caps and a couple of customized machining jobs.

One could argue that prices have gone up a bit, but I guess it is all relative.

[Brian Ellis]

The only lens I've had that wouldn't fully close after opening with T or B turned out to not be fixable, at least so said a local repairman that I used and who seemed to be competent. He said that sometimes these old lenses sit around so long without use that they become gunked up beyond cleaning or repair. Hopefully this isn't the case with your lens and I mention it only to suggest that if you're within a return period you either return it or get the lens to Grimes ASAP. I've used them for several things since Steve's death and for the things they did for me they have been as good as he was. It was nice to see that the talents of this wonderful man have been passed on to another generation.

[Tom Johnston]

Brian,

Thanks for the info. I'm going to call S.K. Grimes in a little while.

The thing with this lens is that, when using the cable release, the shutter lever on the camera will not return on it's own. It does return just fine when you trip it with the lever itself. So, with fractional second shutter speeds, it's no problem because you can just push the lever up after the exposure. The only problem with them is that sometimes you have to press the cable release plunger a few times to trip the shutter.

With B and T, the shutter also trips with the cable release (reluctantly) but since the lever will not reset, the shutter won't close except by pressing the lever manually. I thought that maybe the cable release plunger wasn't long enough so I inserted a small but longer rod in the plunger hole to trip the shutter but it still didn't work. It's clear that the cable release mechanism is just sticking for some reason. I would think that that repair would be possible. It may just need a good cleaning. I'll post what happens at S.K. Grimes.

[Tom Johnston]

By the way, I received an email from one of the biggest sellers of large format lenses on eBay. He was concerned and wanted to know if he had sold the lens to me. Without mentioning his eBay seller's handle, I will say that he is also known for writing some of the most informative and entertaining eBay ads. Just so everyone knows, I did NOT buy the lens from him and the fact that he contacted me to express concern indicates to me that he is a class-act and someone I want to deal with.

I bought the lens with an 8x10" camera from someone who was making their first eBay sale. I don't think the guy lied to me. He had only used the camera itself a few times and I think it was just sitting on a tripod as an ornament, judging by the dust that had collected on the bed, etc. The lens had probably been just sitting too. He may have tested the shutter by just operating it with the lever. It works fine that way. On the other hand, the camera was far better than he described it. He did mention that it had been restored by Patrick Alt who I contacted before bidding. Patrick confirmed that he had indeed restored the camera and that it was far nicer than the seller indicated and that the pictures on eBay did not do it justice. That turned out to be true. The seller could have really talked up the camera but he didn't. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and just assuming that he wasn't aware of the shutter problem. As I said, I would have probably sent it out for a CLA anyway. The work will just be a little more involved and expensive now. The glass itself is beautiful.

[Turner Reich]

Wow, an older thread but I recognize some of the members as being still active. I have a 14" and just looked at the front and noticed the letters RC so mine is a 1951 too.

[Gene McCluney]

In regards the shutter on your Commercial Ektar 14" lens. If it is like mine, there is a lever you move (left or right) to open the shutter blades. It does not open the Iris, which you have to do manually. You do not have to do the "T" or "B" thing to focus. This lever is on top of the shutter, if you have it mounted so the aperture scale is on the bottom.

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

In regards the shutter on your Commercial Ektar 14" lens. If it is like mine, there is a lever you move (left or right) to open the shutter blades. It does not open the Iris, which you have to do manually. You do not have to do the "T" or "B" thing to focus. This lever is on top of the shutter, if you have it mounted so the aperture scale is on the bottom.


Gene, check the date of this discussion... :rolleyes: :)

[Turner Reich]

I reopened it because I saw the lens dating code. Sorry if it caused any problems.
tr

[Glenn Thoreson]

I have the same lens/shutter combo. Standard 72mm screw in filters, front and rear. Regular 72mm lens caps fit, too. Try a long throw cable release and see if that helps. That's what mine takes. If the throw isn't quite long enough, it will cause you grief.

[Gene McCluney]

Gene, check the date of this discussion... :rolleyes: :)

I know, I can see the date. I did not see this particular question answered though. Ektars are timeless. The discussion could go on for years.