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ignatiusjk
11-Nov-2012, 17:23
Has anyone ever seen or heard of a digital 4x5 field type of camera.I couldn't imagine the cost of such a camera but also won't be surprised to see them more common place in the next 5-8 years. This would truly be the ultimate death of film and film cameras. The quality would be unimaginable.

C. D. Keth
11-Nov-2012, 17:30
The quality would be unimaginable.

So would the price.

Erik Gould
11-Nov-2012, 17:39
We have scan backs now, but yes large sensors are in the future. Film has other qualities.

C. D. Keth
11-Nov-2012, 17:59
The other problem I can immediately think of is power. A DSLR has 1.5in^2 of sensor area. If we have a 4x5 digital sensor, it has a little more than 13 times the power needs. One of my favorite aspects of LF photography is not being tethered to a power source. I can hike or offroad for as long and as far as my legs and truck can go and not worry about how many shots my camera can do between charges, or how heavy the battery power needed is going to be.

On the other hand, it sure would be cool to tether up to a big monitor and be able to see focus and the effect of your movements in so handy a way. It would be great for teaching.

Nathan Potter
11-Nov-2012, 18:12
Already here in a limited embodiment for B&W. I think I've mentioned this here previously but hospital digital Xray capture sensors are available in something like 11 X 14 format down to 4X5 or so, and smaller. Some of these use a scintillator coating over the sensor material to improve the sensitivity to short wavelength Xrays. Resolution of the very large format panels of course is poor by LF standards but in the 4X5 range or so I think I've seen pixel pitch down below 100µm.

You capture the image on the panel then need a computer with reader and software to extract the image. I'm not sure anyone has actually used one of these for visible light B&W photography but it would be fun to experiment. Don't know the cost of a panel but probably not cheap knowing the hospital market.

I suppose these could be a path to more practical sensors designed and optimize specifically for large format photographic use. Honestly I'm not sure whether the current panels are based on tiled silicon sensors or if an amorphous semiconductor is utilized a la flat panel technology. Certainly a flat panel manufacturing process offers an advantage in manufacturing economy. You can process a lot of 4X5 sensors on one 60 inch flat glass panel.

Worth googling Xray panels to find more details and dig out price quotes.

Nate Potter, Austin TX., Corea ME.

bitnaut
11-Nov-2012, 19:14
I'm not sure if there's a need to go that large with digital when current sensors already appear to rival 8x10 film in resolution: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/iq180_vs_8x10.shtml

Kirk Gittings
11-Nov-2012, 19:20
That LL comparison has been widely criticized by many qualified persons. However regardless of who is right the mere fact that there is a controversy over the results points to the great leaps that DC has made.

C. D. Keth
11-Nov-2012, 19:49
That LL comparison has been widely criticized by many qualified persons. However regardless of who is right the mere fact that there is a controversy over the results points to the great leaps that DC has made.

Digital capture is pretty great right now but who scans their film at 745ppi if they really want to get every bit of information out of it?

pasiasty
12-Nov-2012, 04:40
There is one sensor (http://www.photographybay.com/2011/09/15/canon-puts-8-inch-image-sensor-in-telescope-records-video-at-60fps/) that is even bigger, about 8x8". I mean one piece it (and perhaps a few spare ones), and it's not commercially available - if it were, it'd cost perhaps more that all our equipment altogether... And they don't mention mega-pixels...

Daniel Stone
12-Nov-2012, 11:21
Mitchell Feinberg uses a custom-mad 8x10 digital back to PROOF his shots that he does, finals are committed to film once he's got things set and lit properly.

www.mitch.fr

http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2011/08/meet-six-figure-8x10-custom-made-digital-back

Dan

Drew Wiley
12-Nov-2012, 11:30
Dream on. I'm not waiting. By the time something practical that size exists, I'll probably
be too old to use it.

Kirk Gittings
12-Nov-2012, 11:31
or on SS and can't even dream of affording it.........

Greg Miller
12-Nov-2012, 11:45
There is one sensor (http://www.photographybay.com/2011/09/15/canon-puts-8-inch-image-sensor-in-telescope-records-video-at-60fps/) that is even bigger, about 8x8". I mean one piece it (and perhaps a few spare ones), and it's not commercially available - if it were, it'd cost perhaps more that all our equipment altogether... And they don't mention mega-pixels...

That would a full wafer that sensors for digital cameras are cut from. as expensive as that would be, anything larger than that would most likley be exponentialy more expensive (for the forseeable future).

Arne Croell
12-Nov-2012, 13:59
That would a full wafer that sensors for digital cameras are cut from. as expensive as that would be, anything larger than that would most likley be exponentialy more expensive (for the forseeable future).
450mm silicon wafers are already being made in research, and will be used by the end of this decade: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/132604-intel-invests-in-asml-to-boost-extreme-uv-lithography-massive-450mm-wafers. That accomodates a smidge less than 11x14" ; Now making ONE high-resolution sensor out of it is a completely different story...

Harold_4074
12-Nov-2012, 14:00
hospital digital Xray capture sensors

I recently had occasion to look into these because someone proposed them as a substitute for x-ray film that was subsequently scanned for digital processing. It turned out that the filmless medical x-rays are made with a phosphor which is activated by x-ray photons and stimulated to release visible light by flooding it with (I think) infrared. The emitted light is captured and digitized, so the original phosphor is not a "sensor" per se.

Presumably, one could develop a phosphor that would store the energy from visible light and release some wavelength that could be captured and digitized, but it would be a pretty limited market. Color response and resolution would probably also not be much of a challenge to conventional film.

There is at least some precedent for automatic field processing and scanning of film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_3) so maybe this would be a bit closer to a digital large-format camera...

Martin Courtenay-Blake
14-Nov-2012, 11:13
Went to see a business contact at The University of Edinburgh a few years ago. They have a special lab that builds bits for spacecraft and satellites. he showed me a sensor about 3in square. They were using about 20 of them in a grid for a camera which I believe was for the new orbital telescope. He told me the unit cost for them but I can't remember the exact figure except that the complete array would cost a seven figure sum. I think they were being made by Kodak in the States.

ImSoNegative
14-Nov-2012, 12:00
I could not imagine shooting a digital 4x5, if film ever dies (which i doubt it ever will) my love of photography will die with it.