Ed Burtynsky

[Martin Courtenay-Blake]

I had never really been a fan of Burtynsky's work, feeling it was a sort of large format record making, until last night. Here in good ole Blighty we were treated to an hour long documentary on the man and his working methods. I was transfixed. He worked with total professional calm with an obvious empathy with the human subjects. The program concentrated on big industrial sites in China and India, particularly ship building and demolition. The photographs were sublime and, to me, superb, especially as it was a HD broadcast. Definately a convert.

[Dan Henderson]

An Ed Burtynsky exhibit is ongoing at the Taubman Museum of Art here in Roanoke, Virginia USA.

[r.e.]

Hah! Do a search on this site and you'll find that the attacks on Burtynsky are exceeded only by the attacks on Jeff Wall.

The documentary that you are talking about was made after Burtynsky made the photos about ship demolition and when he was in the process of his China project.

[Ed Bray]

If it is the same one that I have watched a couple of times this month (on my sky box) I do have to applaud how the video shows a cropped image and then pans out to show how small the original crop was compared to the full image and how insignificant the people or objects seem when viewed in its entirety.

Some of the ship demolishion images are amazing, as are the images of the Chinese recycling waste.

[r.e.]

The ship demolition photographs were made in Bangladesh, not India, because the Indian government prevented Burtynsky from photographing the area where that work took place.

If you see the full size ship demolition prints, the people not only don't look insignificant, they capture your attention. He used an 8x10 camera to make those photos, and all of the people in them are blurred because they are working and therefore moving.

For the China series, he moved for practical reasons to 4x5.

[Ari]

Is there anywhere to find this documentary online? Thx

[Drew Wiley]

I still find his work pretentious - pandering to the Museum mentality, with sterotypical
blaaah C-prints reminiscent of 70's artsy-fartsy types. Composition-wise he has a lot to
offer, but it just falls flat for me because the actual prints are so weak.

[Darin Boville]

The film is called "Manufactured Landscapes" and whatever you think of his work the film is worth seeing. It's on iTunes for rent or purchase. Heck, just the opening scene is worth the price. Highly recommended.

--Darin

[r.e.]

Info on the documentary: http://onf-nfb.gc.ca/eng/collection/film/?id=54796

[Frank_E]

I still find his work pretentious - pandering to the Museum mentality, with sterotypical
blaaah C-prints reminiscent of 70's artsy-fartsy types. Composition-wise he has a lot to
offer, but it just falls flat for me because the actual prints are so weak.

Your observation demonstrates the perspective "to each his own". Burtynsky either owns or is part owner of one of the major printing houses in Toronto (Toronto Image Works) and that shop does some good work. I have seen Burtynsky's work displayed in numerous exhibitionss and always liked the prints. My opinion is that he has a lot of talent. There is no question that he caters to the "museum mentality" but that doesn't bother me...

[Frank_E]

Info on the documentary: http://onf-nfb.gc.ca/eng/collection/film/?id=54796

it is an excellent documentary. It was done by Jennifer Baichwal

She previously did a documentary on another LF photographer, who does what some might regard to be "controversial" work,
that is Shelby Lee Adams, also well worth watching.

[r.e.]

I still find his work pretentious - pandering to the Museum mentality, with sterotypical
blaaah C-prints reminiscent of 70's artsy-fartsy types. Composition-wise he has a lot to
offer, but it just falls flat for me because the actual prints are so weak.

Right, and given the chance, you'll trash Jeff Wall.

Thank God that Elliott Carter didn't ossify. RIP

[Drew Wiley]

You are correct, Frank. I just find the style of presentation reminiscent of the "marketing"
strategy to the art pontificators back in the 70's, when those baiting a hook for NEA funds
etc would print deliberately blaah to differentiate their look from more colorful work of the
previously accepted generation, like Eliot Porter, for example. A few of them, like Meyerowitz, became quite eloquent at it. Most did not - it was largely a gimmick. Now in
fairness, I must state that not a lot of Burtynsky's displayed work gets to this neighborhood. But what I have seen failed for me because the weakness of the print itself,
or perhaps the bland hues in the neg film itself, failed to feature to compositional skills (of
which Burtynsky is genuinely endowed) - i.e., the craft just isn't up to par with the intellectual side of the vision. And the themes are just too predictably catered to "social
relevance", again baiting the hook in my estimation. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[Kirk Gittings]

Hmmm....................the prints I have seen (and I have seen allot) were first rate. Now Merowitz.....I have seen allot of crappy prints from him and allot of crap from him in museum collections.

[r.e.]

The fact that on this forum Ed Burtynsky might go from lousy photographer to compositionally talented photographer, but lousy printer, is actually progress. And pretty amusing to boot.

[Frank Petronio]

Here I am sticking up for Burtynsky, his printing and quality is first rate. As for picking subject matter and printing large to appeal to curators... well... doh, not many color contact printers out getting impressive shows.

I wish smaller sized work was more popular, as well as less of the New Topographics attitude. But he works within that domain at a very high level.

[r.e.]

Here I am sticking up for Burtynsky, his printing and quality is first rate. As for picking subject matter and printing large to appeal to curators... well... doh, not many color contact printers out getting impressive shows.

I wish smaller sized work was more popular, as well as less of the New Topographics attitude. But he works within that domain at a very high level.

Yesterday I walked a couple of blocks to spend some time with Caravaggio's 1608 painting of Saint Lucia. It's over the alter of a church here in Sicily, and it's kinda big and, despite that, a pretty OK painting :)

[r.e.]

What's truly funny about part of this discussion is that Burtynsky owns Toronto Image Works, and that it was the income from his highly regarded and successful photographic printing company that enabled him (as he has himself said) to pursue his photography.

[Drew Wiley]

Yes ... hopefully there will be some venue around here that will perhaps allow me to reassess the question. I'm just going from a fragmentary viewpoint, perhaps of earlier prints, or what has been published. Like I said ... I'd love to be proven wrong, because I like his eye, if not his overindulgence of "new topographics" as you folks call it. Got enough of that with Misrach in this neighborhood. ... who sure had a shaky start when he turned from b&w to color. And yes, Kirk ... Meyerowitz took awhile, but eventually he really got a good marriage between his film choice and its inherent idiosyncrasies. His earlier prints with either hit-or-miss contacts or commercially enlarged. Misrach never printed his own color, and had a habit of burning his bridges with every commercial printer he encountered. But guess I'm West Coast school myself, and appreciate superlative craftsmanship in color printmaking, just as in b&w, and not just relevant subject-matter. Merely putting garbage or toxic waste in the foreground doesn't change that rule for me.

[Drew Wiley]

r.e. - don't buy that argument. I knew extremely competent pro lab owners who had no
esthetic will of their own, and were actually horrible photographers. I know another one
who can make remarkably detailed big commercial display prints, and even became a multi
millionaire at it - yet who has zero interest in the medium in any personal sense. Craft and
vision need a marriage before something really worthy comes out. I've got my own standards, so am in effect my own worst critic, and will always be in a battle with myself.
But I do admire a high level of craft in others, and am willing to concede when others do
make progress on the learning curve. We all have to start from somewhere.

[r.e.]

Like I said ... I'd love to be proven wrong, because I like his eye, if not his overindulgence of "new topographics" as you folks call it.

So I'm readin' through this thread lookin' for this high falutin' phrase "new topographics" that we folks are usin', and I can't find it anywhere.

And I'm thinkin' 'bout those photos of workmen on a beach takin' apart ships, and wondrin', what's new topographic 'bout that?

[r.e.]

r.e. - don't buy that argument. I knew extremely competent pro lab owners who had no
esthetic will of their own, and were actually horrible photographers. I know another one
who can make remarkably detailed big commercial display prints, and even became a multi
millionaire at it - yet who has zero interest in the medium in any personal sense. Craft and
vision need a marriage before something really worthy comes out. I've got my own standards, so am in effect my own worst critic, and will always be in a battle with myself.
But I do admire a high level of craft in others, and am willing to concede when others do
make progress on the learning curve. We all have to start from somewhere.

I think that I wasn't making an argument and that when it comes to Burtynsky's work you don't know much, if anything, about it.

[Drew Wiley]

I have eyes. That's what I go by first, not spin.

[r.e.]

Next up for half-cocked derogatory comments, let's all take a slam at Jeff Wall. There's a great old thread on this site that does precisely that, with attempts to defend Wall by a wing nut named Tim Atherton and a few others who failed to see that Wall is devoid of talent. Interesting, indeed entertaining, reading, these many years later.

[r.e.]

I have eyes. That's what I go by first, not spin.

You already said that you haven't seen much of his work. From which it kinda follows that you're the one doing the spinning.

[Drew Wiley]

What on earth do Wall and Burtynsky have in common other than being flatlanders? Ed B.
has a pretty unique mode of visualization which distinctively pervades each composition of
his. For lack of a better explanation, I'd call it "fractured glass". Maybe a bit of a resemblance to Gursky, but not much. Subject matter is secondary. It's how you view the
world. Just that there might be a potential to take it to a higher level at the printing stage.
It's not a criticism of his work to state that. And I certainly do have a right to relate in
what manner I might be disappointed in something with great potential. The curators tend
to get a little too cerebral for all this - once one of them can turn out a serious body of
work of their own I'll honor it as something more than spin, and I've known my share of them. But I do admire his grasp of composition, which I suspect is largely intuitive. The
bias toward certain subject matter is probably a symptom of the times and the redundant
need to find a social justification for your subject matter.

[Ari]

The film is called "Manufactured Landscapes" and whatever you think of his work the film is worth seeing. It's on iTunes for rent or purchase. Heck, just the opening scene is worth the price. Highly recommended.

--Darin


Info on the documentary: http://onf-nfb.gc.ca/eng/collection/film/?id=54796

Thanks for the information.

[Jody_S]

I'm amazed at how people here pile onto anyone who has enjoyed the slightest amount of commercial success with LF photography.

[Darin Boville]

IOf you've heard of Robert Adams, Stephen Shore and the Bechers then you've heard of New Topographics--an exhibit back in the 1970s. Had a big impact. The exhibit catalog was just rereleased a year or two ago. Woth getting.

--Darin

[Ari]

I'm amazed at how people here pile onto anyone who has enjoyed the slightest amount of commercial success with LF photography.

Yet Ansel Adams gets through unscathed :)

[Jody_S]

Yet Ansel Adams gets through unscathed :)

I need to insert an 'alive' in there?

[Daniel Stone]

I've watched the "Manufactured Landscapes" and have enjoyed Burtynsky's vision throughout its duration. I've found it to be a good insight into his working process,

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to see his prints in-person, but would love to have the ability to do so if given the chance.

-Dan

[richardman]

I have seen the Manufactured Landscape exhibit at Stanford University a few years ago. The printing are first rated, and my eyes like his stuff.

[bob carnie]

I have been following Ed's work since he started in the mid 80's. I have known all his printers and I agree his prints are good.
He is the genuine article and someone who's career should be followed, funny how it took him 25 years to be an overnight sensation.

Walking into an Burtynsky exhibit is exhilarating and I believe his images have a very strong voice.


Hmmm....................the prints I have seen (and I have seen allot) were first rate. Now Merowitz.....I have seen allot of crappy prints from him and allot of crap from him in museum collections.

[bob carnie]

Drew

I have a competing lab Elevator in Toronto and know Ed from this perspective.

FYI - Ed built the lab to produce his art. Ed did NOT like me build the lab to print for others and then try to show work. I may end up in the second lab level of lab owner but time will tell.( good printer , lousy photographer}

Toronto Image Works has always been a great lab and make no mistake , Ed built it so that he could produce the work you see in Museums worldwide.
He has concentrated on this work from day one and a wonderful side benifit for him is that TIW prospered along with him.
Ed has always made monster colour prints, his printer was Brent Kitagaowa for years who in the Toronto photo market was always
considered a wonderful colour printer.
Ed has always stood over his printers and made suggestions and I have seen almost every show that he has produced and his prints have
always been great.
Today he is still mixing colour neg and phase back and using a chromira printer with and amazing retoucher at his side.




r.e. - don't buy that argument. I knew extremely competent pro lab owners who had no
esthetic will of their own, and were actually horrible photographers.

But I do admire a high level of craft in others, and am willing to concede when others do
make progress on the learning curve. We all have to start from somewhere.

[Drew Wiley]

Thanks, Bob ... like I said, I'd like to see more of his work in person because it doesn't seem to get shown in this part of the world much. But we do have several top notch
commercial printers in the area who I can personally outperform. Maybe I'm just not a big
fan of traditional color neg film and C-prints for landscape work, and hence will be fussing with it myself for probably the next couple of years trying to find a new path, now that the Ciba era is ending. Burtynsky reminds me a bit of Raghubir Singh's architectural shots,
which came across a bit better due to the dye transfer medium, though not with the impact of large format. Lots of structural nuances which I don't find optimized in the relatively flat typical C-print. Most of the C-prints I've seen in museums have disappointed
me, though they might be otherwise interesting conceptually. The most recent SFMMA
show was Cindy Sherman - but I would even spend a dime to see that kind of Byzantine
icon monotony.

[Drew Wiley]

Oh ... typo. I meant to say, I WOULDN'T spend a dime ... But wonder how long those big
Chromira printers can be kept going. One sold around here for 10% its original cost a few
years ago. ZBE also supplied me with some of the unusual monitoring gizmos that I use in
my own specialized enlargers. Just don't think I want to work much bigger than 30X40,
however, in case arthritis sets in too bad in my fingers. But yes, it always is encouraging to see someone being able to have the time to do personal printing and make a success of it. But I don't know why everyone fluffs their fur at any esthetic comment as if I were
undermining the body of work itself. It's definitely interesting. And I don't know why folks
constantly want to make comparisons with AA, as if the world of photography was limited
to only choice A or choice B - seems a nonsensical pattern of pigeonholing, esp when one
is speaking of the color medium.

[richardman]

..The most recent SFM{O}MA
show was Cindy Sherman - but I would{n't} even spend a dime to see that kind of Byzantine
icon monotony.

+1. I can't bring myself to pay the $20 to see her stuff :-)

[Frank Petronio]

But we do have several top notch commercial printers in the area who I can personally outperform.

I know a jpg hardly does your work justice and is beneath your trifling with, but I would like to see something - a show, a book, something respected by third-parties, even another photographer as a reference - that shows me a hint of your potential. Because that's quite a bold unsubstantiated statement and I bet there are a lot of printers who would take exception.

[patrickjames]

"Manufactured Landscapes" is one of the better documentaries on a photographer. It is really well done.

I haven't seen a lot of Burtynsky's work in person but the prints I have seen are really damn good. I don't know why anyone would say anything to the contrary.

As far as the piling on of successful photographers goes, I wish I could do some revisions on things I have put online over the years. The truth is I didn't like Burtynsky's work years ago but I have come to at least appreciate it now. I think his best work is of the ship dismantlers. They are really impressive in scale. At this point I tend to think he should probably move on to something different in general. Todd Hido is an excellent contemporary example of someone doing the opposite. I doubt Hido will ever be pigeonholed.

I will say one rather interesting thing about Burtynsky's images is he made a conscious decision to exclude blue and green from all his images. I find that a fascinating fact.

[Drew Wiley]

I'm not personally impressed with resumes or fluffing fur over who has purchased prints, or where and with whom venues, Frank, but don't go there. ... I wasn't born yesterday.

[Drew Wiley]

Patrick - that is indeed an interesting observation; and although I am obviousoly not qualifed to call it a universal rule in his work, I think it substantiates how he has gravitated
toward certain hues favored by trad neg film like Portra. Not fair, but I got tired of that
trick in the 70's (again, hue-wise, not to be confused with his compositional skill per se). Seems to be in vogue again, like so many other things. I keep a few holders around with
Portra 160 in them just in case, but am really more interested at the moment in taming
Ektar, which seems to handle the greens quite a bit better, and in the use of Portra 160
for internegs from chromes. And I do admire anyone who can take other folks film and make sense of it, though that is a task more realistically done by scanning nowadays. I
only print my own shots, so have full control right from the moment of exposure. Sheer
size rarely impresses me, though I like enough surface area to reveal a lot of inherent detail

[bob carnie]

I haven't seen a lot of Burtynsky's work in person but the prints I have seen are really damn good. I don't know why anyone would say anything to the contrary.is I didn't like Burtynsky's work years ago but I have come to at least appreciate it now. I think his best work is of the ship dismantlers.



Here is a bit of a story or observation if you wish.. the ships you see in the Bangledesh images were taken due in part, to a show Russell Monk produced that we printed called Heaven and Hell. Ed saw the work at Russel's show and immediately saw the potential for his project and was on site mere months after the heaven and hell show.
The ships you see in his work are actually the same ones Russell photographed.

Russell who was impressed with Salgodo's work at the same location , went to Bangledesh and produced an amazing show which did include an image that had a worker holding a piece of metal on his shoulder which mimiked an Salgado piece.

But if you look at Salgado's work you will see that he was possibly influenced by a image by Robert Frank where a worker was holding an piece of metal in somewhat the same vein.
Go back a few years and you cannot think that Frank was possibly influenced by Sanders image of a man with bricks on his shoulder.

I imagine some young worker looking at Burtynsky's will be influenced to produce a body of work that is deeply influenced by Ed.

nothing new here , it's the way we grow as photographers and I find it all quite fascinating.

I am helping curate a live auction show for SNAP 2013 right now and I cannot tell you how many pieces we have looked at that are reflections, of Burtynsky, Barbara Cole, Jeff Wall, Gursky and others.

What I do not see are silver gelatin prints of rocks , rivers and trees , hopefully time will cure that.

[Sylvester Graham]

Good artists borrow. Great artists... steal?

[jp]

I will say one rather interesting thing about Burtynsky's images is he made a conscious decision to exclude blue and green from all his images. I find that a fascinating fact.

That's a bit of a stretch. My favorite images of his are the quarry photos. The vermont ones particularly make use of green+blue.

As far as subject matter for "Manufactured Landscapes", I didn't notice, but if that's the case, I'd think it were a choice to create contrast to nature's colors rather than a limitation of the medium. (As he doesn't actually exclude blue and green from all his images)

[patrickjames]

That's a bit of a stretch. My favorite images of his are the quarry photos. The vermont ones particularly make use of green+blue.

As far as subject matter for "Manufactured Landscapes", I didn't notice, but if that's the case, I'd think it were a choice to create contrast to nature's colors rather than a limitation of the medium. (As he doesn't actually exclude blue and green from all his images)

I got it straight from the horses mouth. Here is a quote and a link to the interview-

"you mentioned that you consciously exclude green and blue from your photographs, and that, for the most part, you don't like to shoot in summer or at certain times of day...."

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/06/the-art-of-industry-the-making-and-meaning-of-edward-burtynskys-new-exhibit-oil/258654/

[jonreid]

+1


I'm amazed at how people here pile onto anyone who has enjoyed the slightest amount of commercial success with LF photography.

[bob carnie]

image by Robert Frank where a worker

I may have made a mistake and meant Paul Strand, I need to look into this .. but the message is we are all influenced by others.

I never clued into the blue and green thing about his work.

[Drew Wiley]

I did read that interview, Patrick. Thanks. Interesting, but sorta confirms the formal strategy involved, which I already intuitively picked up on. What I'm stating is more of a
social or esthetic commentary rather than a criticism of E.B., which some of you failed to
pick up on. But I'll bet if an equivalent shots of a natural quarry in marble, caused by a
glacier or whatever, rather than a manmade one were appropriately labeled - and even if
someone couldn't tell the difference visually - it would automatically be disparaged as mere
"rocks and trees" and modernistically irrelevant unless some soda cans or old tires were
prominently in the scene. Theme-wise, this is just 70's redux, soft color neg palatte and all. There is nothing new in this respect. Composition-wise, with the fractured film plane
essentially exploding out to containment in the artificial picture borders, and the various little blocks being superbly related and balanced hue-wise in suspension, so to speak, EB
has done something quite original - capable of being copied genre-wise, but maybe not
in terms of internal balance and force. Mere detritus and social commentary does not make
a great composition.

[r.e.]

The fact of the matter is that Mr. Wiley is blowing smoke and knows screw all about Burtynsky or Toronto Image Works or Burtynsky's prints. The only serious question is why he finds it necessary to express opinions on issues that he knows nothing, as is clear from his own statements, about.

It is at this point obvious that Mr. Wiley doesn't even know what Toronto Image Works is, let alone that Burtynsky owns it.

Plus, he has said in this thread that he doesn't know Burtynsky's work.

So what is the point, other than jealousy.

[Miguel Curbelo]

The only serious question is why he finds it necessary to express opinions on issues that he knows nothing, as is clear from his own statements, about.
Why is this a serious question?

[Drew Wiley]

I have eyes. That gives me just a solid opinion as anyone, bar none. I'm talking about
prints, not about someone's rent in the local business district. And what exactly do you
fail to understand about that distinction?

[redrockcoulee]

I have seen the Manufactured Landscape exhibit at Stanford University a few years ago. The printing are first rated, and my eyes like his stuff.

A smaller version of that show was held in Medicine Hat a couple of years ago. I was very impressed with both the images and the quality. I enjoyed as did everyone I spoke to that saw it.

[Drew Wiley]

Stanford Univ? So close and yet so far. Can see Palo Alto from the upstrs office window,
but takes forever to drive there. Plant up the street in officially painted in Cal Bears colors,
so guess there's a reason we never hear around here what's going on at Stanford. Wish
he'd get a show over at SF Moma. I'd subsidize them for that, but not for just anything
they happen to hang.

[bob carnie]

2005
Manufactured Landscapes (includes 24 new China images), Brooklyn Museum of Art, Brooklyn, New York, USA
Manufactured Landscapes, Museum of Photographic Arts, San Diego, California, USA
Photowork, The Torch Gallery, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Manufactured Landscapes, Iris & B. Gerald Cantor Center for Visual Art, Stanford University, Stanford, California, USA
Entropia, Fundacion Bilbao Bizkaia Kutxa, Bilbao, Spain
Burtynsky — China, Robert Koch Gallery, San Francisco, California, USA
Burtynsky — China, Southeastern Center for Contemporary Art, Winston-Salem, North Carolina, USA (touring exhibition - see above)
Burtynsky — China, Nicholas Metivier Gallery, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Burtynsky — China, Charles Cowles Gallery, New York, New York, USA
Burtynsky — China, Flowers Gallery, London, U.K.


This is from his website ... San Diego and San Franscisco.
his CV is incredible and pretty much been everywhere in the last 10 years, and very hard to miss.

[Drew Wiley]

Thanks Bob. I see there was one in SF, though a private venue like that would hardly draw
attention in the local media unless one was in the habit of perusing the arts section of the
Sunday paper, which few people subscribe to anymore. San Diego is the kind of place one
flies to from here, not drives. This is a big state. I saw some things in a private gallery
right here in the neighborhood, but suspect it represented some relatively early aerial work
which looked distinctly small format. Again, I don't get the fuss. I think I perceive his
compositional skill as well as anyone, and have praised it in post after post. And I do understand the limitations of making big prints, which nowadays are pretty much limited to
either C or inkjet. But he's got his stride, and I suspect it's pretty much imprinted by the
kind of film he chose to begin with. My battle with color neg is analogous, but I think I can
tame the more neutral greens given some of the newer materials and careful masking. Find
out soon enough, and certain prints already have answered the question. I hate the cyan
inflection in traditional color neg green reproduction. Poison green, which Steven Shore
drank by the gallon, along with pumkin orange.

[John NYC]

Have not read this entire thread, but wanted to comment on a couple things. I like Burtynsky's work, but he is not in my top 10 favorite photographers. I respect the work he has done. I learned something on this thread: his ignoring of certain colors. I have not seen enough of his entire catalog to have picked up on that. I have mainly seen Oil and some of the Quarry stuff. Regarding Oil, I have seen several extremely large prints here in New York. I think they were well done (not the best I have seen but well done). They certainly did not have the impact of a Jeff Wall lightbox in terms of "wow" factor for a gigantic print, but that is just a personal remark, as those are apples to oranges.

[paulr]

I enjoy Burtynsky's work in a minor way. I enjoy the "Ignore" button in a major way.