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Larry Gebhardt
1-Nov-2012, 17:43
I bought a Super Symmar 110XL off of ebay. The auction fully disclosed that the lens had some marks. However it was stated that the shutter was in perfect working shape. The lens arrived last week with a few things wrong. First I noticed the shutter blades were only partially opened closed, but the preview lever was closed. I cocked the shutter and the blades closed. I was thinking "never seen this before, but maybe it got loose in shipping". I tried all the speeds and they all worked perfectly, and the timings were good. So I mounted it to my board. Then I noticed the aperture lever was upside down (lever on the bottom, not the top). I undid the screws and turned it around. After that I took it outside to see how it looked and take a few shots. I noticed that after I closed the preview lever there was still a faint image. Playing with it I found the blades wouldn't close completely unless you closed the lever fast. It worked this way for a bit, but then the blades started staying partially open no matter how I closed it. But cocking the shutter closed things down. "Ok, I guess a CLA is needed"

I then noticed the post for the cable release was far from the shutter release (see image). My release can't trip the shutter.

I have contacted the seller and he is not responsive. He claims to be a camera repair tech, and that the shutter wasn't like this when he sent it. He is upset that I remounted the aperture lever, and is even accusing me of swapping the shutter. Now he hasn't responded to the my last two emails. The auction photos clearly show the upside down lever and the gap between the cable release and the release lever.

So I'm not exactly sure what to do with this lens. I'm posting a few pictures to show the lens. Could people with this lens look at the images and tell me how the cable release ended up like this? Also, does it look like the right aperture scale is installed on this lens? I'm wondering if a shutter from another lens was quickly mounted, or things were put together backwards somehow. Maybe the aperture scales weren't properly carried over. I assume a CLA would fix the sticky preview issue.

I want to keep the lens, and it's probably a good deal even if I need to replace the shutter. The scuffs on the rear element are on the inner surface and completely covered by f/16. So optically it looks very useable.

Vick Ko
1-Nov-2012, 17:57
Wow, I'd be pretty unhappy.

Aren't there ways to get your money back, using Ebay or Paypal buyer protection, since the item is not as described?

Sure, a CLA will get things right (you might need to find the right person to deal with the aperture scale), but, did the ad say that you'd need to CLA the lens, or set you up for an expectation to have to CLA the lens before using it? If not, I'd say that the ad is misleading.

Good luck

Larry Gebhardt
1-Nov-2012, 18:07
Wow, I'd be pretty unhappy.

Aren't there ways to get your money back, using Ebay or Paypal buyer protection, since the item is not as described?

Sure, a CLA will get things right (you might need to find the right person to deal with the aperture scale), but, did the ad say that you'd need to CLA the lens, or set you up for an expectation to have to CLA the lens before using it? If not, I'd say that the ad is misleading.

Good luck

I am a bit unhappy, but I only paid a fraction of the cost of one in better condition. All the ad said was "COATING OF REAR LENS IS SCRATCHED(SEE THE PICTURE) WHICH DOES NOT EFFECT PICTURE QUALITY.FRONT LENS AND SHUTTER ARE IN VERY GOOD CONDITION.COMES WITH FRONT AND REAR CAPS." I really should learn to avoid people who post in all caps.

I am hoping that someone with this lens can tell me if the aperture scale lines up with the right shutter speeds on the shutter. I think that would tell me if it is the right scale. I couldn't find any pictures of this lens from that angle in a brief search.

Jody_S
1-Nov-2012, 18:16
Could people with this lens look at the images and tell me how the cable release ended up like this?

From your photo, there is no other possible arrangement between threaded receptacle and shutter release. You may simply need a longer-throw cable release.

The issue about the blades not closing completely is very different. You can fix this yourself with a bit of Ronsonol ligher fluid, but if it was sold as 'perfect', then it was clearly misrepresented and you are entitled to pursue a complaint. Whether this is cost-effective is up to you.

Larry Gebhardt
1-Nov-2012, 18:27
I think I just answered part of my own question. I finally found an image of the lens in a completed auction. Why I didn't think to look there earlier I don't know. It does look like the aperture scale is correct. It also looks like there are three screw holes for the cable release bracket. One is hiding under the release lever. Looks like I could move the release socket after all. So maybe the shutter isn't as messed up as I thought. Of course if I fix that too the seller will be really reluctant to CLA the shutter.

Larry Gebhardt
2-Nov-2012, 11:50
Well I finally heard back from the seller. He is refusing to fix or take back the shutter because I flipped the ring. So just a word of warning for anyone thinking of dealing with this seller. He goes by cameramax on ebay.

JimL
3-Nov-2012, 15:55
Sounds like the shutter may have been taken apart to try and fix the problem with the shutter blades, and then was not put together correctly. Even if you need to send it for a CLA, it looks like you got a good deal though!

Cletus
3-Nov-2012, 16:29
It's easy to understand your dilemma, in part - you're happy with the "deal" you got on the lens despite the problems and the recalcitrant seller. Even though you would almost certainy be entitled to a full refund (whether the seller wants to give it to you or not) via EBay buyer protection. Evidently, you would still prefer to keep the lens and perhaps at the worst, have to shell out a couple hundred for a new shutter, or less if this one can be repaired. Not too bad.

After all that, though, I still have a huge problem with scab sellers (and don't we all?) like these - thanks for letting us know who he is! - and I SURE hope you had the opportunity to leave a nasty negative FB!

Larry Gebhardt
4-Nov-2012, 05:13
I bought a 210mm Caltar with the same shutter for $125. It arrived, so I decided to risk opening the messed up shutter. In short I was able to quickly see the problem and fix it. Luckily it turned out to be a loose screw on the first part connected to the preview lever. It took a bit to get the cover back on right, but somehow I did it without making things worse. Putting the cable release in the right spot was simple. So I now have the lens I thought I was buying without any more money. Well accept for the new 210mm, but everyone needs a spare 210, right?

As far as nasty feedback goes I will probably do that. I just worry about retaliatory feedback. But I should let other buyers know...

Steve Goldstein
4-Nov-2012, 05:26
As far as nasty feedback goes I will probably do that. I just worry about retaliatory feedback. But I should let other buyers know...

I believe that sellers can only leave positive feedback. They can be nasty in the wording, but that's about it. You could wait until the time window for feedback is almost closed, then leave it - the seller might not notice in time to get back at you.

Phil Hudson
4-Nov-2012, 19:49
Without wanting to add further distress to the OP I have in the past been in a similar situation and I was advised by Schneider that the Super Symmar XL lenses should not have shutters swapped without returning to the factory for tolerance checking. I have in the past replaced shutters on other older lenses without noticeable loss of quality, so just passing on the idea that if the shutter is original it might be a good idea to get it fixed rather than replaced.

Hope it works out.

Larry Gebhardt
5-Nov-2012, 08:51
Without wanting to add further distress to the OP I have in the past been in a similar situation and I was advised by Schneider that the Super Symmar XL lenses should not have shutters swapped without returning to the factory for tolerance checking. I have in the past replaced shutters on other older lenses without noticeable loss of quality, so just passing on the idea that if the shutter is original it might be a good idea to get it fixed rather than replaced.

Hope it works out.

Phil, thanks for that additional information. Do you know if there is supposed to be a shim in the shutter? The Caltar II N (Sironar N) came with a shim. The Super Symar 110 XL did not.

Phil Hudson
6-Nov-2012, 14:56
Mine didn't have a shim either - but perhaps shims were added as required for individual samples?