Photographic Paradoxes Post (PPP)

[goamules]

Forums are great for hearing opinions from the experienced, or the questions from the novice. As I've been photographing with large format, wetplate, and vintage 35mm I've noticed some paradoxes, things that just seem to contradict. I thought we should start a post listing some of the things we've found people do that just seem counter intuitive. Please add yours!

1.

35mm photographers demand lenses with maximum resolution to enlarge tiny, thumbnail 35mm negatives to 8x10.
Large format photographers want soft focus lenses to contact print softness on inherently sharp 8x10s.

[Vaughn]

Who wants soft focus lenses for 8x10's?! Yuck...

2) LF photographers hurry up to wait...

[Brian Sims]

Stitching 20 DSLR images to achieve the resolution of 4x5.
Hand-held action photos with 4x5 (and yes, I did my time with a Speed Graphic. The battery pack for the strobe must have been 20 lbs).

[Peter Gomena]

Lots of people say they love my pictures but nobody ever wants to actually buy one.

[johnmsanderson]

Lots of people say they love my pictures but nobody ever wants to actually buy one.

+1 :(

[ROL]

Lots of people say they love my pictures but nobody ever wants to actually buy one.

I'll piggyback off of that: "I can't afford one of your fine art prints – can I buy one of your mistakes?" :eek::confused::(

Really, seriously not kidding this time.

[E. von Hoegh]

......
Large format photographers want soft focus lenses to contact print softness on inherently sharp 8x10s.

I don't use, own, or approve of soft-focus lenses.

[goamules]

Another paradox;

A photographer who buys 2-10 exotic lenses, but then only wants to buy old, cheap, expired film.

[DrTang]

expensive camera, lens sitting on top of a rickey, old lightweight tripod


expensive lighting gear being held up with the cheapest, lightest light stands

[Kirk Gittings]

Film photographers who drive to their location in a $30k truck, use modern manufactured VCs and lenses, digital spot meter, filters, commercial film, safe light, commercial papers, commercial chemicals, enlarger, commercial mat board, frames etc. and call their prints "hand made".

[E. von Hoegh]

Photographers who spend $$$$$ on camera, lenses, film, tripod, meter, accessories, and use dimestore spectacles to focus with. Makes me laugh when it doesn't make me want to throw things.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Film photographers who ... call their prints "hand made".

Nice!

[Kirk Gittings]

Photgraphers who spend $$$$$ on camera, lenses, film, tripod, meter, accessories, and use dimestore spectacles to focus with. Makes me laugh when it doesn't make me want to throw things.

Wow, that is me. I be a paradox!

[E. von Hoegh]

Wow, that is me. I be a paradox!

Can we call you "Par" for short? I'll give you a great deal on a proper loupe...

[ROL]

Photographers who spend $$$$$ on camera, lenses, film, tripod, meter, accessories, and use dimestore spectacles to focus with.

Judgmental, aren't we? 99¢ spectacles, I'll have you know.



Makes me laugh when it doesn't make me want to throw things.

Throw me a nice loupe!

[brian mcweeney]

1. Making a living.
2. Being a photographer.

[ROL]

Film photographers who drive to their location in a $30k truck, use modern manufactured VCs and lenses, digital spot meter, filters, commercial film, safe light, commercial papers, commercial chemicals, enlarger, commercial mat board, frames etc. and call their prints "hand made".

Guilty, but the truck was second hand, errrh – recycled.

[Mark Sawyer]

Nice thread, Garrett!

How 'bout...

$30K a year for undergraduate, then graduate school, hoping to get a $30K a year job teaching others who will spend $30K a year for their degrees hoping to get a $30K a year teaching job...

[John Kasaian]

"A paradox is truth standing on it's head, waiting to be noticed"--GK Chesterton

[Jody_S]

Photographers who spend $$$$$ on camera, lenses, film, tripod, meter, accessories, and use dimestore spectacles to focus with. Makes me laugh when it doesn't make me want to throw things.

I'll have you know that my spectacles cost $6.00, ordered directly from China. Because the dollar store doesn't carry +5.00 spectacles.

[Doremus Scudder]

How 'bout...

$30K a year for undergraduate, then graduate school, hoping to get a $30K a year job teaching others who will spend $30K a year for their degrees hoping to get a $30K a year teaching job...

I'm wont to call that "perpetuation of the feces"...




1. Making a living.
2. Being a photographer.

Not mutually exclusive, but rare... Don't quit your day job.

Best,

Doremus

[wombat2go]

I've got 7 cameras and 35 good lenses and a darkroom, but most of the framed prints on the walls in our house are from wife's phone printed bw by Walgrens.

[Alan Gales]

How about people who spend top dollar on the latest full frame DSLR and pro lenses and then get their prints made at Walgreens or Walmart.

[Vaughn]

Film photographers who drive to their location in a $30k truck, use modern manufactured VCs and lenses, digital spot meter, filters, commercial film, safe light, commercial papers, commercial chemicals, enlarger, commercial mat board, frames etc. and call their prints "hand made".

And stay at mid to high price motels, eat out -- and then complain about the price of film (one of the cheapest expenses of their trip)!

Some of my best images are on out-date film, bought cheap(er)!

[Jody_S]

And stay at mid to high price motels, eat out -- and then complain about the price of film (one of the cheapest expenses of their trip)!

Some of my best images are on out-date film, bought cheap(er)!

If it weren't for cheap, out-of-date film, I wouldn't be into LF at all. But then I don't own a $30K pickup truck and I'm too cheap to stay in motels. The day I can't sleep contorted under a dirty blanket in the back of an $800 minivan is the day I stop taking road trips. Or win the lottery. I'm good either way.

[Bill_1856]

This is one of the most interesting, useful threads that I've seen here in a long time. Maybe that's a paradox?

[Ari]

The bigger the beard, the bigger the camera.
Or is that more of an "inversely proportional to..." kinda thing? :)

Anyway, I know there's a beard joke just fighting to get out here.

[E. von Hoegh]

If it weren't for cheap, out-of-date film, I wouldn't be into LF at all. But then I don't own a $30K pickup truck and I'm too cheap to stay in motels. The day I can't sleep contorted under a dirty blanket in the back of an $800 minivan is the day I stop taking road trips. Or win the lottery. I'm good either way.

For the past few years I've been using (for 8x10) Tri-X that's been frozen since 1990-91. I dread the day I run out.

[goamules]

Here's another;

Super color-saturated wall sized prints sell very well at "art fairs", but fake, faded instagram altered photos are the most popular online.

[Jody_S]

For the past few years I've been using (for 8x10) Tri-X that's been frozen since 1990-91. I dread the day I run out.

Well I'm about 20 sq. ft. into my 300' of Konica Infrared, I'm not sure what I'll do when that runs out. Oh, I suppose eBay will still be around in 2015...

[E. von Hoegh]

Well I'm about 20 sq. ft. into my 300' of Konica Infrared, I'm not sure what I'll do when that runs out. Oh, I suppose eBay will still be around in 2015...

The way film prices are going I think I'll start collecting glass and scrap silver.

[E. von Hoegh]

Here's another;

Super color-saturated wall sized prints sell very well at "art fairs", but fake, faded instagram altered photos are the most popular online.

That's not really a paradox since they both suck.

[Kirk Gittings]

:)................that's "sucks" to the second power?

[Roger Cole]

There's a joke among pilots that works for photographers:

Kid: When I grow up, I want to be a pilot [photographer.]
Adult: Make up your mind son, you can't do both.

[C. D. Keth]

The bigger the beard, the bigger the camera.
Or is that more of an "inversely proportional to..." kinda thing? :)

Anyway, I know there's a beard joke just fighting to get out here.

I think it would true to state that the size of the beard is inversely proportional to the level of sharpness with which it will be photographed in large format.

[E. von Hoegh]

There's a joke among pilots that works for photographers:

Kid: When I grow up, I want to be a pilot [photographer.]
Adult: Make up your mind son, you can't do both.

Reminds me of a saying about pilots. "There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots". Maybe it works for papparazzi.
Is there anything in photography comparable to hand-propping an engine with a three-bladed aerobatic prop?

[E. von Hoegh]

:)................that's "sucks" to the second power?

Yes, they both suck squared. :)

[Roger Cole]

Reminds me of a saying about pilots. "There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots". Maybe it works for papparazzi.
Is there anything in photography comparable to hand-propping an engine with a three-bladed aerobatic prop?

Dunno about that one, but another one from aviation that might apply to large format photographers, or any film photographers these days:

Q. How do you know there's a pilot [large format / film photographer] at your party?
A. Oh, you'll know. He'll tell you.

[jcoldslabs]

Photographers who spend more time posting to online photo forums than they do taking pictures. :rolleyes:

Jonathan

[ROL]

I'm wont to call that "perpetuation of the feces"...

I was thinking more "zero sum gain". I believe that to which you refer, has until now, traditionally been reserved for the post baccalaureate approbation Piled high and Deeper.

[ic-racer]

Moving from the most technically demanding camera and film (35mm) to the easiest to operate camera and most forgiving film to enlarge (8x10) and say that one is 'advancing.'

[Jody_S]

Photographers who spend more time posting to online photo forums than they do taking pictures. :rolleyes:

Jonathan

Hey! It's cold outside. And film is expensive.

[ROL]

Photographers who spend more time posting to online photo forums than they do taking pictures. :rolleyes:

Jonathan

You win, Mr. Nearly 1000 posts in 2 years. We all lose.

I actually spent every odd moment so far today away from the comforting embrace of the deep yellow darkness of my lab where I was making proofs, at the harsh glare of my computer screen, only to discover that nearly everything I do angers you fellows – MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!! (a paradox of time misspent?)

[ROL]

There's a joke among pilots that works for photographers:

Kid: When I grow up, I want to be a pilot [photographer.]
Adult: Make up your mind son, you can't do both.


Dunno about that one, but another one from aviation that might apply to large format photographers, or any film photographers these days:

Q. How do you know there's a pilot [large format / film photographer] at your party?
A. Oh, you'll know. He'll tell you.


Alright Roger, we get it. You're a PILOT. :rolleyes:

[Jody_S]

Wut's a 'pilot'? A middle-aged, minimum wage machine operator?

[Roger Cole]

Alright Roger, we get it. You're a PILOT. :rolleyes:

Did I mention I'm also a photographer who shoots film? Let me tell you about my 4x5 Linhof...

:D

[David Lobato]

Large format photographers who drive 3000 miles to Death Valley and rarely visit their local ponds/streams/woods/prairies within a 10 minute drive from home. It seems the size of the format is proportional to the distance driven.

[Frank Petronio]

Busting your ass to build a professional website only to find all the hits are coming from competitive photographers ;-p

[Ari]

Busting your ass to build a professional website only to find all the hits are coming from competitive photographers ;-p

...or forum acquaintances.

[Kirk Gittings]

social networking is for lemmings................

[Heroique]

People who spend a lot of time in front of their computers posting their images to this forum are the people who – paradoxically – spend a lot of time away from their computers to get their shots.

[Frank Petronio]

All the photographers who fought for and supported ASMP with time and dues so that charging for usage rights became standard business practice. Only to be crushed by Getty and Corbis who milked that hard won victory so well that it put a lot of assignment photographers out of business.

Getty and Corbis are evil, do whatever you can to hurt them.

[Jody_S]

All the poor 1980s photographers who thought they could retire on stock photography only to be crushed by penny stock Flickr dupes....


People who spend a lot of time in front of their computers posting their images to this forum are the people who – paradoxically – spend a lot of time away from their computers to get their shots.

Fuck. I've done both.

[Vaughn]

Large format photographers who drive 3000 miles to Death Valley and rarely visit their local ponds/streams/woods/prairies within a 10 minute drive from home. It seems the size of the format is proportional to the distance driven.

Nah...Death Valley is only 700 miles away from me. But it does takes me about an hour to get to my favorite area of light -- Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park (55 miles away).

But I have put in my day's work (okay, 4 hours), swam laps in the pool for 40 minutes and now it is time to hop on the bike and pedal my behind the 9 miles home -- 40 minutes until a scotch and some dinner -- then perhaps a nap and then back here at ten pm or so and to work on my mess of an office.

The pair of ducks -- I commuted to work on the bike today, but will drive back this evening!

[polyglot]

Forums are great for hearing questions from the experienced, or the opinions from the novice.

The most strongly-held convictions are generally furthest from the truth.

Those with the most to say on forums generally have the least photography to show for it.

[Jody_S]

Large format photographers who drive 3000 miles to Death Valley and rarely visit their local ponds/streams/woods/prairies within a 10 minute drive from home. It seems the size of the format is proportional to the distance driven.

I've never been to Death Valley (some day...) but there are 2 municipal parks and numerous abandoned buildings, all within a 10-minute drive, that feature prominently in my work. But then, I'm not a photographical paradox (or any other sort).

[Heroique]

I’m a tree lover.

I love my Ries.

“I am large, I contain multitudes.” :cool:

[jcoldslabs]

Hey! It's cold outside. And film is expensive.

Oh, trust me, I find reading and replying to posts far easier than taking photographs. I also find taking photos suddenly necessary and important when there are dishes to be washed and errands to be run, so it's all relative!

Jonathan

[Joseph Dickerson]

The bigger the beard, the bigger the camera.
Or is that more of an "inversely proportional to..." kinda thing? :)

Anyway, I know there's a beard joke just fighting to get out here.

Ari,

Was that "beard" or "belly"? I think I qualify either way!

JD

[E. von Hoegh]

I’m a tree lover.

I love my Ries.

“I am large, I contain multitudes.” :cool:

I'm a vegetarian. I use film.

(edit - No I'm not a vegetabletarian.)

[Ari]

Ari,

Was that "beard" or "belly"? I think I qualify either way!

JD

I'm getting there, too, Joseph - with the belly, that is.

Dang winter and kids' Halloween candy!

[Bill Burk]

We crave resolution, but these discussions go on forever.

[Brian Sims]

82911

[jcoldslabs]

82911

Well played, sir!

Jonathan

[jnantz]

folks who spend thousands of dollars on equipment,
only to reshoot other people's views
( and then claim they are "fine artists" )

[ScottPhotoCo]

The "can you still get film for that?" question we all get when the $2,500 DSLR around their neck will be "obsolete" as soon as the next model comes out.

[Bill Burk]

Busting your ass to build a professional website only to find all the hits are coming from competitive photographers ;-p

That's because you are the true "photographers' photographer"

[Kirk Gittings]

....quick way to starve to death if that is your audience.............

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah, if you did workshops or sold prints maybe it would be worthwhile but not on this forum - you have to poach a wider audience or be some sort of guru like Thom Hogan taking Nikon users to Patagonia for $10K each (to make postcard pictures).... I wonder why a guy like Chase Jarvis does so much amateur photography videos and blogging? Just to get Nikon jobs or because he needs praise or he somehow has 20 hours a week (for himself and crew) for promoting himself to amateurs? Workshops just don't pay that well based on what I've seen....

[ROL]

....quick way to starve to death if that is your audience.............

............must................find.......................foooooood....................

[jp]

Paradox is just a fancy word for "presenting something you don't understand without having to think it through"

[Heroique]

82911

.....:D

[jcoldslabs]

http://www.kolstad.us/ebay/Pair-O-Dogs.jpg

Jonathan

[Bill Burk]

Now all we need is a parrot next to an ox.

Sorry you had to hit me over the head with it.

I was staring at those two boat ramps all day and didn't get it.

[AF-ULF]

This statement is false.
I must be cruel to be kind.

[Heroique]

Now all we need is a parrot next to an ox.

Or this strange fellow...

[Duane Polcou]

Photographers who post on internet forums using some handle rather than their real name, then rave about how well received their work is.
Really ... so where can I see your new show entitled

"Zone6FilmJunkie:New Works" ?

[Frank Petronio]

I just saw a campaign shot by a popular Toronto photographer - done in NY for a US agency. Yet if an American photographer goes to Toronto they'll tell you they can't work with non-Canadians. Even if you tell the border guards the truth about why you are visiting they'll detain you for hours.

So much for those free trade agreements Prez Clinton....

[Joseph Dickerson]

How about newbies/students/others who ask for, and listen intently to your "professional opinion" then proceed on a course that is 180 degrees out of sync with your recommendation! :p

JD

[Vaughn]

How about newbies/students/others who ask for, and listen intently to your "professional opinion" then proceed on a course that is 180 degrees out of sync with your recommendation! :p

JD

I had a minor rebellion at one of my carbon workshops -- most of the students figured that my method might cause streaking in their prints. So they did it their way...and I let them, encouraged them actually. When their next prints had major unevenness in them, they quietly went back to my suggested method. One has to allow folks to make mistakes...it is called learning.

Vaughn

So a PPP -- one's mistakes are actually successes. I am having a very successful time with carbon printing!

[Bill Burk]

Or this strange fellow...

Just the image to make my weekend complete!

[Alan Gales]

So a PPP -- one's mistakes are actually successes.

Thanks Vaughn. I never realized how successful I have been in my life! :)

[ROL]

So a PPP -- one's mistakes are actually successes.
Thanks Vaughn. I never realized how successful I have been in my life! :)

In another life, we called those happy accidents.

[jcoldslabs]

I succeed at screwing up all the time.

Jonathan

[Michael Graves]

If it weren't for cheap, out-of-date film, I wouldn't be into LF at all.

Cheap OOD film is fine for playing with a piece of gear to see if it works. Generally, I prefer film that I purchased fresh for shooting. It may say it's out of date on the box by the time I take it out of the freezer, but when I am on the road, I agree with the others who talk about the costs of gas, food and lodging. I shoot two sheets of every shot that I think is worth setting up for. Then I develop each sheet separately in case I want to make an adjustment.

[Randy]

Amature Photographer - One who has a part time job to support his or her hobby.

Professional Photographer - One whose spouse has a part time job to support his or her hobby.

[Ari]

Amature Photographer - One who has a part time job to support his or her hobby.

Professional Photographer - One whose spouse has a part time job to support his or her hobby.

Nice!

[Kirk Gittings]

Going to all the trouble to process silver prints archivally when the paper base itself is not archival.

[ROL]

Amature Photographer - One who has a part time job to support his or her hobby.

Professional Photographer - One whose spouse has a part time job to support his or her hobby.

There is some rather well known advice by a major gallerist to the oft asked question on how to succeed in the art world: Marry rich.

[ROL]

Going to all the trouble to process silver prints archivally when the paper base itself is not archival.

Saw that over in another thread. Kind of puts into perspective all those you ain't professional if you still dry mount types. (You pays your money and you takes your choice)

[Kirk Gittings]

and...........(drum roll).........yes I still dry mount (but I do also process archivally-WTF?).

[Vaughn]

Saw that over in another thread. Kind of puts into perspective all those you ain't professional if you still dry mount types. (You pays your money and you takes your choice)

Dry mounting protects the archival mount board from the non-archival photo paper by putting a non-porous air-barrier between them!

[Jody_S]

Amature Photographer - One who has a part time job to support his or her hobby.

Professional Photographer - One whose spouse has a part time job to support his or her hobby.

I guess I will forever be an amateur then. The day my wife takes on a part time job to pay for my crap is the day she starts planning where in the back yard to bury my corpse.

[ROL]

...a non-porous air-barrier between them!

That the technical description for dry mount tissue?!? I knew that stuff had to be useful for something.

[Mark Sawyer]

Going to all the trouble to process silver prints archivally when the paper base itself is not archival.

What about "Going to all the trouble to archivally process and matte silver prints when they're all going in the dumpster when we die in twenty years..."

[Vaughn]

What about "Going to all the trouble to archivally process and matte silver prints when they're all going in the dumpster when we die in twenty years..."

I had several boxes (archival) of 16x20 archivally processed prints dry-mounted on archival matboard that I dumpstered a lot earlier than that! Ants invaded and made their nests in the boxes. Guess I could have started a new photo-movement...gelatine silver landscapes and ant poop.

[Keith Fleming]

Mark asked "What about "Going to all the trouble to archivally process and matte silver prints when they're all going in the dumpster when we die in twenty years..."

I'm old enough that the correct answer to Mark's question is: "Ah, that's Daughter's problem." This philosophy works for a number of situations, such as crowded closets, cluttered garage, excess photo gear, etc. Gives one a lot more free time too.

Keith

[David Lobato]

After the latest purchase ...... "I now have all the equipment I will ever want"

..... snkk .... snicker ......

[Harold_4074]

That's not really a paradox since they both suck.

Oh---you must be referring to "pair-of-doxies".....

[E. von Hoegh]

I guess I will forever be an amateur then. The day my wife takes on a part time job to pay for my crap is the day she starts planning where in the back yard to bury my corpse.

I hope for your sake your wife is unemployable...

[jnantz]

Going to all the trouble to process silver prints archivally when the paper base itself is not archival.


hi kirk

i have read things here and there
and spoke with people at kodak +
at the image permanency institute
and other folks who know + say "stuff"
and read + was told that rc paper
can be processed to be just as or
even more "archival" than fiber prints ...

i don't know if it is true or not ...