Thoughts on my new ShenHao HZX45-IIA

[TimeShare]

If a friend were in the market for a large format camera, would I recommend a ShenHao product after owning mine for just over a month?

My ShenHao in combination with a Fujinon-W 135mm f5.6 lens is happily producing me images that excite me every time I scan a new negative.

I find the camera, easy to open and close as well as adjust as needed when making a number of adjustments while composing my shots.

There is a "But" though ... and that but relates to when I first opened the camera after receiving it in the mail. Unfortunately I noticed a number of unfinished areas of wood on the camera back and on the interior wood of the camera. Now this is no way impacts the performance of the camera BUT when you are expecting that perfectly new piece of equipment in the mail, it was disappointing to see that the workmanship on the finished product wasn't quite up to snuff.

My decision in purchasing a 4x5 camera was between the Chamonix and the ShenHao, the Chamonix was approximately $ 150.00 more but I have to wonder if the workmanship of that product would have been slightly better.

The distributor of the ShenHao was very gracious and offered to replace the camera but the thought of packing it up, the expense of mailing it back and the thought of waiting for a new camera did not sit well with me so I still have my original ShenHao.

However, if a friend were to ask me "should I order a ShenHao", I would probably be leaning towards the answer of No.

[ImSoNegative]

i have read that the chamonix and shen hao are virtually identical, i bought a shen ptb about 3 years ago and would highly recommend it, weighs slightly under 3 pounds, folds up very compact and fun to use once you get used to it, before the shen i had a toyo view 45gII so getting used to the movements on the ptb took a while and but now i love it.

[vinny]

I bought that camera several years ago and parts (springs) were broken right out of the box. I had to order extra bolts (those crazy two hole ones) because they kept falling off. I have a chamonix 45n-2 now and wouldn't buy the shenhao knock-off as it uses wood in places that should be something like carbon fiber. The chamonix is all around a nicer camera and much more versatile.

[SergeiR]

i have read that the chamonix and shen hao are virtually identical

Hmm.. Different focusing mechanism, different set of rear movements.. One is box fold-in, another one is not.. I wouldnt call them being identical.

[Vaughn]

I guess we were lucky -- the ShenHao HZX45-IIA I ordered for the school was in perfect condition -- perhaps because I ordered it through Badger Graphics and they checked it out before sending on to the university.

[C. D. Keth]

I had one and was pretty satisfied with it for the price. That was before chamonix existed, though.

[TimeShare]

I guess we were lucky -- the ShenHao HZX45-IIA I ordered for the school was in perfect condition -- perhaps because I ordered it through Badger Graphics and they checked it out before sending on to the university.

I got mine through Badger as well, the functionality is great, just the cosmetic blemishes are as disappointment.

[Lachlan 717]

I have 2 and will get a third soon.

[Professional]

I have Shen Hao HZX45-IIA, i can't speak about my impressions of it, i used it to shoot only 5 sheets and it was nice, the weight is really impressive, lighter than some of my DSLRS even lighter than my digital Hasselblad.

I am planning to buy another body, either Linhof or Ebony, i know about the Linhof design, but i am not sure about Ebony body design of all models, if i buy that Ebony then i may use or keep Shen Hao as backup.

[Curt]

I bought one from Badger in 09 and there wasn't anything wrong with it. For the price it's a pretty good camera, full featured. Purchase one from Badger.

[Jeff Dexheimer]

Aonther to say it is a great camera for the price. I got mine used off ebay and it performs exactly like I expected. Its not as sturdy as my monorail, but that is to be expected with a folding camera. An advantage of the shen hao over the chamonix is the shen is IR light tight.

[Brian Ellis]

i have read that the chamonix and shen hao are virtually identical, i bought a shen ptb about 3 years ago and would highly recommend it, weighs slightly under 3 pounds, folds up very compact and fun to use once you get used to it, before the shen i had a toyo view 45gII so getting used to the movements on the ptb took a while and but now i love it.

I've owned a Chamonix (first version) and a Shen Hao (early version, don't remember the exact model designation). While both were good cameras, each having its own strengths and weaknesses, they were very different in their looks, mechanics, and how they function. The Shen reminded me of the Ebony I used to own, the Chamonix didn't remind me of any LF camera I've owned before.

[vinny]

Hmm.. Different focusing mechanism, different set of rear movements.. One is box fold-in, another one is not.. I wouldnt call them being identical.

He's referrrig to the shenhao ptb and chamonix 45n models.
For the record, my shenhao 45hzxwhatever was brand new from badger. It's a very different style of camera, not as rigid or finely finished as the chamonix's and I don't see how purchasing one from a particular seller is going to change that.

[Michael Graves]

I'm actually in a position to compare the Shen Hao PTB45 and the Chamonix 45N1. My wife has the Shen Hao and I have the Chamonix. The only substantial differences I can see is that one of the cameras...can't remember which one, has one more threaded position for the front standard than the other and that the Chamonix has the Universal bellows, while the Shen Hao has a standard bellows. Finish was excellent on both of these when I received them. The fit of lens boards onto the front standard of the Shen Hao is a little tighter and harder to deal with, but you would only notice that going from one to the other. It isn't like you have to struggle with the Shen Hao. It is more a matter that with the Chamonix the lens boards pop in with ease, while with the Shen Hao, it is necessary to press the lens board in firmly while rotating the locking tab.

[jon.oman]

I have the Shen-Hao from Badger. So far it has been fine......

[Tony Evans]

Same as Jon.

[Roger Cole]

How's the focusing screen? Do you have the fresnel?

I'm considering the HZX45-IIA (not the ptb) and curious about this.

[Kuzano]

I just shipped my second Shen Hao out to a buyer in Australia. That camera and the original I purchased from Badger Graphics were both excellent if not near perfect in every respect. I never found fault with either (both IIA). The workmanship was flawless. I just purchased the Graflok sliders for the second from Badger new for $20 shipped. The screws and nylon washers were already on the camera. Mishap..???

In any event, the reason I sold both of them and regret doing so, was because when I go out shooting large format, my camera needs to pretty much be CRAP!!. I don't have the time or inclination to fuss over not messing up my cameras in the field. Both of these cameras were too nice to go out with me. IF, and I say IF, the Chamonix is a better camera, I would NEVER use it.

Realistically yours... Kuzano

PS, my old 1969 chevy pickup (Photo Rig) looks identical to the camera's I actually shoot. Pretty just don't cut it in the woods or in the desert!

[gliderbee]

I had the shen hao 4x5; I sold it on this forum some time ago and now have the hzx 5x7 with also the 4x5 back. I was and am vey pleased with both.

Stefan.

[Vaughn]

Kuzano! I hear you! My Zone VI 8x10 was pretty nice looking when I bought it used from Mid-West, but now it is a much more comfortable-looking camera. One of the latches broken off, base all scratched up from rotating the camera on the tripod head, some minor nicks here and there. Brass fittings pitted. A great camera!

We bought a Tachihara for the university a while back..prettiest dang thing you'd ever see. But it could not stand up to normal student use. The Shen-Hao is not nearly as pretty, nor are the Horseman Woodmans we also have for the students. But they are holding up far far better.

Vaughn

[Roger Cole]

I just shipped my second Shen Hao out to a buyer in Australia. That camera and the original I purchased from Badger Graphics were both excellent if not near perfect in every respect. I never found fault with either (both IIA). The workmanship was flawless. I just purchased the Graflok sliders for the second from Badger new for $20 shipped. The screws and nylon washers were already on the camera. Mishap..???

In any event, the reason I sold both of them and regret doing so, was because when I go out shooting large format, my camera needs to pretty much be CRAP!!. I don't have the time or inclination to fuss over not messing up my cameras in the field. Both of these cameras were too nice to go out with me. IF, and I say IF, the Chamonix is a better camera, I would NEVER use it.

Realistically yours... Kuzano

PS, my old 1969 chevy pickup (Photo Rig) looks identical to the camera's I actually shoot. Pretty just don't cut it in the woods or in the desert!

The photos on Badger's site look like the back is a Graflok, but I can't be sure. It's mostly there but you need a $20 set of sliders? That's not a big deal, but kind of odd they wouldn't just include them. Or are you saying yours was missing the sliders and shouldn't have been?

Still wondering about the ground glass.

[Kuzano]

The photos on Badger's site look like the back is a Graflok, but I can't be sure. It's mostly there but you need a $20 set of sliders? That's not a big deal, but kind of odd they wouldn't just include them. Or are you saying yours was missing the sliders and shouldn't have been?

Still wondering about the ground glass.

I think the Graflok sliders were overlooked on this second camera. My first had the sliders. On this second one, the screw, washers and nylon friction washer were on the camera. I didn't bother to ask whether the camera should have come with the sliders, as the first camera did. So, Mishap.... I think so.

[Kuzano]

The photos on Badger's site look like the back is a Graflok, but I can't be sure. It's mostly there but you need a $20 set of sliders? That's not a big deal, but kind of odd they wouldn't just include them. Or are you saying yours was missing the sliders and shouldn't have been?

Still wondering about the ground glass.

I think the Graflok sliders were overlooked on this second camera. My first had the sliders. On this second one, the screw, washers and nylon friction washer were on the camera. I didn't bother to ask whether the camera should have come with the sliders, as the first camera did. So, Mishap.... I think so.

Interestingly the sliders are shown in the parts list, but not shown as optional. I think this implies they were standard.

[Roger Cole]

Thanks. If I buy one, I'll be sure it has the whole Graflok back setup or get any missing parts replaced.

[Professional]

Well, i don't know if you are talking about different Shen Hao models or only that HZX AII.

I like HZX in everything except 2 things:

1. It doesn't have a front shift, i don't know if that is a big issue if i don't have a front shift.

2. The groundglass even with a Fresnel is not bright at all, i had very difficult time to focus with it, and i hate to use the dark cloth all the time, comparing with my Speed Graphic which is better and brighter, that SG has a folded hood on the GG which is a big help, i didn't find a hood for HZX45AII GG, i bought one from Badger that said it is for Shen Hao but seems it is not HZX model.

I am not sure the movement range with this model is sufficient, but i can go with another LF body for full better room for movement if necessary.

[Roger Cole]

Hum. Well I hate hoods. I couldn't figure out how to temporarily remove the ragged one on my Tech III so I cut it off with an exacto knife.

A bright screen is something I want though.

I can count on the fingers of one finger the number of times I've used front shift, but those doing architecture might feel it essential. It can be simulated using front and rear swing. That is, aim the bed of the camera diagonally and then swing both the front and rear standards until they are parallel. You can get the film and lens planes in exactly the same alignment for pictorially identical results, but it's more hassle.

[TimeShare]

How's the focusing screen? Do you have the fresnel?

I'm considering the HZX45-IIA (not the ptb) and curious about this.

The ground glass is not overly bright and I do have to use a dark cloth & loupe to compose. I can't comment on the brightness of the ground glass compared to other large format cameras.

I know that when I looked through a Crown Graphic, I was amazed by the brightness of the image on the ground glass and it seems that it would be easier to compose a shot without the need of a dark cloth in comparison to the ShenHao.

However, I have not used a Crown so limited experience here.

[Roger Cole]

Understand. My distaste for the hood on my Linhof was partly because I couldn't get a loupe on the GG with it in place, and partly because the GG wasn't/isn't bright enough to use without a darkcloth anyway. So the hood was just in the way.

[Michael Graves]

Hum. Well I hate hoods. I couldn't figure out how to temporarily remove the ragged one on my Tech III so I cut it off with an exacto knife.

A bright screen is something I want though.

I can count on the fingers of one finger the number of times I've used front shift, but those doing architecture might feel it essential. It can be simulated using front and rear swing. That is, aim the bed of the camera diagonally and then swing both the front and rear standards until they are parallel. You can get the film and lens planes in exactly the same alignment for pictorially identical results, but it's more hassle.

Of all the cameras I've speed-dated, the Linhof Technika was my least favorite. As you've pointed out, the ground-glass viewing is dismal at best and planting a loupe on it was all but impossible. I had bad experiences with early fresnels as well. A loupe picked up the individual grooves. However, it was a long time before I even NOTICED that the Chamonix even had one installed. It is that finely made. Could be that all modern ones are that fine, and I've just never had one to notice. But the focusing on either the PTB or the Chamonix is as easy as any camera I've ever owned. And I'm think I'm up there with Frank in that regard.

[Roger Cole]

Does anyone make an aftermarket brighter screen for the HZX45-IIA then?

I may end up going with the Tachihara over this issue though I like the longer bellows draw and Graflok back of the Shenhao. I don't care that it weighs a couple of pounds more.

[vinny]

Does anyone make an aftermarket brighter screen for the HZX45-IIA then?

I may end up going with the Tachihara over this issue though I like the longer bellows draw and Graflok back of the Shenhao. I don't care that it weighs a couple of pounds more.
all you need are the dimensions. anyone who makes ground glass or fresnels can sell you one. not a deal breaker for me on any camera but a plus if it's a good one.

[Roger Cole]

Well yeah, but who is making them anymore? A Shen-hao fresnel is available from Badger but according to reports above it doesn't help all that much.

[Cletus]

I had the exact same Shen Hao (HZX...) and ordered a fresnel from Yanke on EBay. They're probably the largest dealer in custom fresnels on Ebay and can make to suit up to 8x10 but not larger. I think it cost about $40 and was brighter then the fresnel on my Sinar F1 4x5. Also added a Steve Hopf GG and between the two, I could easily focus without a dark cloth in all but direct sun. And that's with my 75/4.5, so that's saying something. The stock GG on the Shen Hao wasn't the greatest, by the addition of the Hopf GG and Yanke fresnel made it into almost an ideal viewing screen.

The camera itself was great too, never had the slightest issue with it and the Shen Hao HZX has more movements than just about any field camera out there. A least in its price class, the Ebony (which the design is based on) has the same or more, but for an additional $4000 too! Regrettably, I ended up selling the Shen Hao on the forum here a while ago to get the Sinar. Just yesterday I ordered the Shen Hao FCL810, which runs about $1000 less than the equivalent Chamonix and I would have chosen the Shen Hao anyway, even if the price was the same.

In my opinion, these high quality handcrafted Chinese cameras, both Shen Hao and Chamonix, have set a completely new standard for modern view cameras and if you're in the market for a wood field camera, it's really hard to beat these for the price, quality and features you get with them. I don't think you get THAT MUCH more for the extra several thousand for a Japanese Ebony. I've never met an Ebony in person, but I'll stick to my story on that.

[Tony Evans]

Another +1 for the Yanke out of China (on E-B). I estimate +2 stops on my HZX45-IIA.

[gliderbee]

Have a look at auction 270734909498: excellent glass and seller. I use them on all my viewcameras.

Stefan

[Roger Cole]

I had the exact same Shen Hao (HZX...) and ordered a fresnel from Yanke on EBay. They're probably the largest dealer in custom fresnels on Ebay and can make to suit up to 8x10 but not larger. I think it cost about $40 and was brighter then the fresnel on my Sinar F1 4x5. Also added a Steve Hopf GG and between the two, I could easily focus without a dark cloth in all but direct sun. And that's with my 75/4.5, so that's saying something. The stock GG on the Shen Hao wasn't the greatest, by the addition of the Hopf GG and Yanke fresnel made it into almost an ideal viewing screen.

The camera itself was great too, never had the slightest issue with it and the Shen Hao HZX has more movements than just about any field camera out there. A least in its price class, the Ebony (which the design is based on) has the same or more, but for an additional $4000 too! Regrettably, I ended up selling the Shen Hao on the forum here a while ago to get the Sinar. Just yesterday I ordered the Shen Hao FCL810, which runs about $1000 less than the equivalent Chamonix and I would have chosen the Shen Hao anyway, even if the price was the same.

In my opinion, these high quality handcrafted Chinese cameras, both Shen Hao and Chamonix, have set a completely new standard for modern view cameras and if you're in the market for a wood field camera, it's really hard to beat these for the price, quality and features you get with them. I don't think you get THAT MUCH more for the extra several thousand for a Japanese Ebony. I've never met an Ebony in person, but I'll stick to my story on that.

Thanks for the information and recommendation. Why would you recommend it over the Chamonix? The Chamonix bellows isn't IR safe, and you can only order one a couple of times a year (I think?) but otherwise I've never heard anything bad about them.

Humm...all I see from Yanke on eBay now are combination fresnel+screen for about $90, thuogh that's not so bad. It's the price of the Shen-Hao fresnel alone. But I don't want to pay twice as much only to use just the fresnel part with the Hopf GG. But one way or another, any issue with the screen brightness is solvable.

[vinny]

The shen hao bellows (recent ptb) aren't ir proof either. They ARE suitable for longer exposures compared to the chamonix 45 and ARE compatible with the chamonix 45n series cameras.. I'm using them on my 45n-2 after some tests with ir film.
@roger, I'm guessing shenhao uses the same bellow material for those cameras. Maybe not though as the hz I owned seemed to be fine with ir film although i never tested it as I have with new cameras. Ask your seller.

[Roger Cole]

How about the HZX45-IIA?

Not that it matters that much if Ilford doesn't produce the IR film that Simon recently said on APUG they could but didn't think there was market for. The Rollei isn't all that infrared sensitive and the Efke is gone, or soon will be. Freestyle is supposed to be getting in one last shipment, I think. I stocked up on 120 IR820 but not 4x5.

[Jeff Dexheimer]

Rollie IR is fine. I personally liked Efke better, but it was a pretty close match. I wrote more about my thoughts on the two here (http://jeffdex.com/blog/2012/07/infrared-film-review-using-4x5-efke-ir820-vs-rollie-infrared/). Rollie has it's pros and cons, but all-in-all, I wouldn't rule it out.

These were shot on Rollie IR with an HZX45-IIA.
8263682637

[Colleen K]

Well yeah, but who is making them anymore? A Shen-hao fresnel is available from Badger but according to reports above it doesn't help all that much.

I'll admit I was surprised by reports it doesn't help much. I bought a fresnel for my Shen hao from Badger, and it works great. I don't really need a dark cloth unless the sun is shining directly on the groundglass. Of course, I bought it some years ago, so maybe they've changed. ??
Colleen

[TimeShare]

I was looking at fresnels from 3Dlens.com, does anyone have experience using their product to improve GG brightness?