Ilford Warmtone Paper and selenium toning

[jeroldharter]

I almost always use coldtone paper, but for my next series of prints I want a different look. I want warmer tones with deep, chocolate blacks. I don't want sepia or red-brown.

I have some Iford warmtone paper, Dektol developer, and selenium toner. I am getting ready to print. Will I be able to get the desired tones with this combo? Any advice for toner dilutions? Thanks.

[jeroldharter]

Like your students, I was looking for a shortcut!

I've used regular Ilford paper before and it is unresponsive to selenium in terms of tonal shift.

I've goofed around with Ilford warmtone (without toner) and did not care for it. But I am hoping I can use it with selenium to get the chocolate tones.

[Oren Grad]

The Ilford Warmtone papers, both FB and RC, are very sensitive to selenium toner. With a high concentration and/or prolonged toning they respond with quite radical color changes. If you want specific results reproducibly, you will need to run your own tests and maintain fairly tight control over your toning workflow.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

This is a combination I used for many years and it should give you what you are looking for. I toned in selenium at a dilution of 1 plus 10 for about 2 minutes but you will want to test as this paper moves quickly, as all warm tone papers do, in toner. So test and have fun! It is a great combination. You might also consider the Foma warm tone paper as it has lovely tones on a whiter base. Good luck!

[Vaughn]

I use to use Portriga Rapid 111 and KRST -- and yes, it was a fine touch to keep it from going to reddish. I wanted to remove the green and just get a nice warm brown/black.

I found that part of the secret was consistent processing of the paper. Same developer and developing time. Same fix (and especially since I used a little hardener in the fixer -- a consistent fixing time). And of course being consistent with toner strength and time. By keeping on top of all those, I could just time the toning and get consistent results once I nailed down the time. If you see what you want in the toner, it is often too late. It will continue to tone after removing from the toner...and sometimes enough to take it too far.

[jeroldharter]

I decided to get off the couch away from the football game and look up Tim Rudman's toning book. The answer is on page 48 where he has some step wedges of both Ilford papers toned in Selenium at 1:20 and 1:2. The 1:20 looks like what I am after,but I will do a test with 1:20 and 1:10 for starters.

[Jon Shiu]

I personally would use regular Ilford FB and a variable thiocarbamide sepia toner with partial bleaching to get deep brown tones. But you can use Ilford Warmtone and Kodak Brown toner to get brown tones.

Jon

[Gary Samson]

You might want to consider using Ansco 130 paper developer with the Ilford Warmtone paper. In combination with selenium toner, a really beautiful print color is produced.

[MIke Sherck]

You may find that mixing your Dektol at 1:3 instead of the usual 1:2, and increasing development time, may give you another set of results to consider.

Mike

[Brian Ellis]

According to a long-ago article by Fred Newman of The View Camera Store published in the newsletter they used to (maybe still do) periodically publish, there's an optimum time for selenium toning if you're looking to increase dMax to its maximum. Less than the optimum and obviously the less the dMax. But the surprising thing (to me at least) is that according to Fred and his testing, if you tone longer than the optimum you also decrease dMax. He tested various papers and various dilutions of Kodak selenium toner in reaching this conclusion but obviously not every paper and every possible combination.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

I tone MGWT FB (and MGIV) in KRST 1:9, 2-3 min at about 22 C (72 F), and my developer of choice is PF 130 1:1 2 min 30 s, at 20 C (68 F). The tone I get varies between a more neutral, rich, slightly plummy shadows, with brownish mid tones, to warmer, browner shadows and mid tones hinting into sepia.

MGIV FB (not WT) in KRST goes quite neutral first, then quite plummy, with blueish highlights in UV-rich or daylight illumination.

PF130 on its own, without KRST, gets MGWT into a brownish territory, with almost no green hints (Dektol makes both papers quite green). For that reason, the changes are subtler to see, as there is no green cast to disappear, than when toning after Dektol, but compared to an untoned print there is a clearly visible difference.

I also find that the print continues to tone when removed from KRST and while in HCA, for about 30 sec, the difference is very visible. Final rinsing and drying will cool the tone back a bit, so it is good to slightly overshoot toning, in my experience.

Both papers exhibit a marked increase in DMax when toned. Untoned, deepest blacks on MGWT read 2.24 above base using my densitometer, and 2.44 when toned, maintaining separation.

[neil poulsen]

This is interesting. I hadn't thought of this combination. I can give this a try; I certainly have enough Kodak Brown toner, having purchased a gallon for $25 when Calumet had it on sale.

Back to the original topic, in my experience, warmtone gives a greenish cast. It needs some selenium toner to rein this in.


. . . But you can use Ilford Warmtone and Kodak Brown toner to get brown tones.

Jon

[Jon Shiu]

Yes, you can use both Selenium and Brown toner.

Jon

This is interesting. I hadn't thought of this combination. I can give this a try; I certainly have enough Kodak Brown toner, having purchased a gallon for $25 when Calumet had it on sale.

Back to the original topic, in my experience, warmtone gives a greenish cast. It needs some selenium toner to rein this in.

[Drew Wiley]

MGWT is an extremely versatile paper with respect to toning, and the final result depends
on many variable including the actual developer and to what degree it has itself been allowed to go to completion, hence affecting the grain size. Ever the mix of lighting used
will have an effect, since this is a VC paper with two different emulsions. Selenium seems
to basically reach a saturation point, and might or might not thereafter inhibit how much
of a secondary toner can be accepted, depending on exactly what that involves. Brown
toner can act awfully fast, so I dilute it way below the recommended amt shown on the
bottle, use it in cold water, pull the print rather quickly, and instantly immerse it in another
tray of water with constant agitation to prevent uneven toning, esp on larger prints.

[jeroldharter]

I found a good process for getting what I want. Tones are slightly red chocolate but it is a nice, dark brown-black.

I am using Dektol 1:3 for 2:00 and KRST 1:12 at 3:00 at 68-70 degrees.

I also rummaged around and found some PF 106 warmtone developer which is glycin based. Never used that before and it looks like coffee. Seems to stain the paper like mild brown toner. Less contrasty than dektol and very nice. Could be good for portraits. But I preferred dektol. Thanks everyone for the advice.

[MichaelR2011]

One other option would be to try using the Ilford warmtone developer with the Ilford warmtone paper. It seems to move the blacks towards brown quite nicely without the disposal issues (and, I assume, toxicity) of many of the toners

[bob carnie]

I use Ilford Warmtone and Art 300 which is the same emulsion but on a different base.

Dektol 1:1.5 Kodak Selenium 1:5 I dip the prints in Selenium for 45 seconds and I have found that this is a lovely tone.

I am moving to all Ilford products and am testing the Ilford Selenium to find my new balances.