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View Full Version : Doppel Anastisgmat Dagor n°9



Miguel Coquis
17-Oct-2012, 03:19
I do not know much about it and would much appreciate any comments about this old barrel Dagor lens performance.
The n°9 is the 24" f:7,7
Seems to be a general use optic with huge image cercle.
Thanks in advance for your advise.
MAC

Steven Tribe
17-Oct-2012, 04:16
Wasn't always part of their standard offerings but the data for 7 and 8 (36cm and 48cm) should give you an idea:

NO./ focal length/ coverage with sharp corners / at F7.7 / at small apertures.

7 36 30x36cm 40x50cm
8 48 35x45cm 50x65cm
"9" 60cm 40x55cm? 60x80cm?

The last line is GUESS!

E. von Hoegh
17-Oct-2012, 06:43
Page 22 has the No.9. http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/goerz_2.html

Tracy Storer
17-Oct-2012, 10:26
Definitely covers 20"x24" and will have LOTS of room for movements stopped down past f/22. You could probably shoot 30"x40" stopped down.
I used one on the Polaroid 20x24 several years ago, it had less contrast than a Fuji C 600, but if you can adjust your lighting / development, it's not an issue. Very sorry to say I probably can't afford it if you decided to sell.

E. von Hoegh
17-Oct-2012, 10:36
Definitely covers 20"x24" and will have LOTS of room for movements stopped down past f/22. You could probably shoot 30"x40" stopped down.
I used one on the Polaroid 20x24 several years ago, it had less contrast than a Fuji C 600, but if you can adjust your lighting / development, it's not an issue. Very sorry to say I probably can't afford it if you decided to sell.

My experience with Dagors is that their purported huge coverage is just not true. They cover 70 -75 degrees at best, no matter how far down you close the iris. You can get more out of them if you're contact printing; I have an 8 1/4" Dagor type (non Goerz) that, while it has dark corners on 8x10, still renders acceptable detail for contact prints in the dark corners!

But if you're enlarging the negatives, don't expect much if any more coverage than you'll get from the average Plasmat.

Dan Fromm
17-Oct-2012, 10:46
Coverage is a sometime thing.

Berthiot made an f/6.8 Dagor clone, the Perigraphe Ser. VIb. Claimed coverage in 1912, 95 degrees. In the '30s, 85 degrees at small apertures. In the late '40s, 65 degrees.

E. von Hoegh
17-Oct-2012, 10:50
Coverage is a sometime thing.

Berthiot made an f/6.8 Dagor clone, the Perigraphe Ser. VIb. Claimed coverage in 1912, 95 degrees. In the '30s, 85 degrees at small apertures. In the late '40s, 65 degrees.

That 65 degrees is a lot closer to the results I get, using a circa 1908 6" NYC Dagor on 4x5 and enlarging the results. The link I posted above claims coverage of 6 1/2x8 1/2 at f:32.

karl french
17-Oct-2012, 10:51
My Dagors (mostly from the 40's and 50's) seem to throw usable sharp image circles pretty much in line with the published specs. I can use 2 inches of front rise with 8 1/4 Dagor on 8x10 without much trouble stopped down to f45.

E. von Hoegh
17-Oct-2012, 11:00
My Dagors (mostly from the 40's and 50's) seem to throw usable sharp image circles pretty much in line with the published specs. I can use 2 inches of front rise with 8 1/4 Dagor on 8x10 without much trouble stopped down to f45.

Thast's right in line with the specs given here on page 17, the 1951 catalog - http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/goerz_3.html , these are about the same specs as given in the 1913 catalog above, or 87 degrees at f;45.

karl french
17-Oct-2012, 11:08
Small package, big image circle, beautiful tonality. That's what makes Dagors great.

E. von Hoegh
17-Oct-2012, 11:11
Small package, big image circle, beautiful tonality. That's what makes Dagors great.

The tonality and sharpness is why I use them. But I've yet to find one that covered as much as the catalogs claim (when enlarging the negative).

pierre506
17-Oct-2012, 18:32
No. 8 & No. 9 Dagors are so rare in this world.:(

Miguel Coquis
18-Oct-2012, 03:49
Thanks fellows for all your interesting comments,
I think it would cover nicely 14x17"
as it is convertible, will have a fine long focal use
sorry Steve not for sale immediatly...;)
At this stage, I am trying to convince owner to decide to let it go.
Will tell more when I get it, if it is the case.
Valuing ($$$$) it is the big difficulty !

pierre506
18-Oct-2012, 06:30
Dagor~
82215

Miguel Coquis
18-Oct-2012, 06:40
Dagor~
82215
Hi Pierre, thanks for the info !

Tracy Storer
18-Oct-2012, 11:24
I don't enlarge, so I don't doubt that the edges of the image are softer than the center, however, for contact-printing, and in my experience working with the Polaroid 20x24(effectively a contact print as well), I completely agree with the old published specs. Coverage is modest wide open, but does improve dramatically using smaller stops.
As stated in my earlier post, the 24" No9 Dagor I used in the late '90s had NO trouble covering 20"x24" (really 21"x24") wide open.
I've owned, and been very happy using Dagors from 7" FL to 30" (a Series IV f/11) on formats up to 20x24, both in studio and near infinity in the field, but if I were enlarging I might well make some other choice.


The tonality and sharpness is why I use them. But I've yet to find one that covered as much as the catalogs claim (when enlarging the negative).

Miguel Coquis
20-Oct-2012, 06:33
Is the Dagor comparable with XXL fine art lenses ?
At least the Dagor 9 will offer convertible possibility.

E. von Hoegh
20-Oct-2012, 07:15
Is the Dagor comparable with XXL fine art lenses ?
At least the Dagor 9 will offer convertible possibility.

The XXL fine art lenses are of two types. The 550 is basically a Dagor-type G Claron, the 1100 is basically a renamed Artar. Compare? An 80 to 120 year old lens, uncoated, could have been treated badly over the years - to a brand new lens with modern coatings?

Also, Dagors aren't very good convertible lenses, unless you like coma and so on.

Dan Fromm
20-Oct-2012, 07:20
The 550 XXL is a plasmat, claimed coverage 78 degrees. The 1100 XXL is a dialyte, claimed coverage 44.5 degrees. Both cover 900 mm. See https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=166

Dagors aren't plasmats or dialytes. But there's a long history of blind tests in which people who claim to be skilled in the art failed to guess which lens took the shot.

Convertibility is a sometime thing. I mentioned Berthiot's f/6.8 Perigraphe earlier in this discussion. 1912 Berthiot propaganda asserted that they're convertible, the claim was dropped by the mid-'30s.

What matters for the #9 Dagor you might get is that it is a decent lens with large (whatever that means) coverage. Eric Beltrando insists that one can reasonably expect dagor types to cover 70 degrees in all but the most stringent applications (photoengraving). Ain't no 600 mm process lenses that will do that.

E. von Hoegh
20-Oct-2012, 07:31
Sorry Dan, but the 550 is a 6/2 Dagor type. Just like a Dagor-type G-Claron.

Edit - http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/pdf/foto/fine_art_lens.pdf

Miguel Coquis
20-Oct-2012, 07:39
What interested me most is spatial values distribution, seems the doppel anastigmat dagor offers very fine contrast....
On the other hand, the BW° FINE ART XXL 550/11 COPAL #3 $8,026.00 without taxes seems elitist production.
Any way, thanks for learning me more and more about technical concepts.

° Big Wallets...:)

Dan Fromm
20-Oct-2012, 08:50
Sorry Dan, but the 550 is a 6/2 Dagor type. Just like a Dagor-type G-Claron.

Edit - http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/pdf/foto/fine_art_lens.pdf

E., thanks for the correction. I saw an invisible air space in the brochure. Have been booked for a while to see the ophthalmologist early next month.