View Full Version : Sinar Handy 47/5.6 cover 6x12?

Frank Petronio
16-Mar-2004, 05:17
Anyone have any direct experience using a Sinar Handy with a 47/5.6 Super Angulon (1974 era) and 6x12 backs? The Schneider website lists the lens as covering 123mm, which seems close. Also, am I safe in assuming the 1974 Super Angulons are single coated, not multi-coated?

I've shot 4x5 sheets and, yes, it doesn't cover 4x5, but who knows exactly what the size of a 6x12 back is? My 6x9 backs have varied by several mm from being "exactly" 6x9 cm. I'd assume that Sinar, Linhof, Horseman, and other 6x12 backs vary in the same way...

I have this camera on eBay and am getting many questions, so I ought to get it straight once and for all. Thanks

16-Mar-2004, 09:47
Hi, Frank,

Being an ex-Veriwide owner, you know that camera was literally designed around the SA 47mm. It's image is called '6x10', but I recall reading that it is really only 92mm long. This decision on the part of Brooks-Plaubel (why not 6x11 or 6x12, if possible?) makes it doubtful, IMHO, that it covers a full 6x12 nicely.

Of course a contact print and a ruler would be more definitive...

James Driscoll
16-Mar-2004, 13:28
The schneiders from the 70's (and later) actually say "multicoated" or "MC" if they are multicoated....also if the lens is multicoated it reflects several colors on the glass. A single coated lens will only reflect one (eg:blue).

Regarding the coverage....if you shot 4x5 why not take a ruler to the image and measure. You will be able to get a rough estimate...and tell your perspective buyers. Be sure to word it a way that can't be interperted as "yes it will work with any 6x12 back".

Frank Petronio
16-Mar-2004, 19:58
I used to be able to add verbage to my eBay auctions but it seems they've canceled that feature. I will make the bidders aware of it though.

Frank Petronio
17-Mar-2004, 07:18
CXC point that the Veriwide would have been a 6x12 if the lens would have covered - maybe this is true but the Veriwide 100 used a 47/8 SA from 1959-1961 wheras my Handy is using a 47/5.6 SA from 1974. I've shot 4x5 and it almost covers the whole sheet, so I'd expect it to cover 6x12 but with the expected couple stops of falloff that some people might want a center filter for.

Using a center filter on a handheld camera like a Veriwide or Handy is another issue though...

Dan Fromm
17-Mar-2004, 08:20
Frank, per various places on Schneider's site, the 47/8 SA covers 113 mm @ f/22, the 47/5.6 SA covers 123 mm @ f/22, and the 47/5.6 SAXL covers 166 mm @ f/22. I don't see how you can say that your 47/5.6 SA "almost covers" 4x5.

That said, like everyone else I don't know the actual dimensions of nominal 6x12. If the aspect ratio is 1:2, it has to be at most 57 x 114. If so, neither of the 47 SAs will cover it. And if nominal 6x12 is longer than 114 mm, more of the corners will be lost.

Frank Petronio
17-Mar-2004, 08:38
I'll post a scan of a full 4x5 shot with it on the ULF (http://www.cleanpage.com/cgi-bin/teemz/teemz.cgi ), and be happy to email anyone a jpg.

17-Mar-2004, 09:08
Sorry I was off-point, I didn't know there were 2 versions of the lens. My bad.

Frank, you sure are selling off a lot of film photo gear, what's up? Have you (gasp!) gone digital? ;-)

I just bought a 12x20. I won't shoot digital, even when film dies -- I'll just shoot myself...

A retrogeek forever,

John O'Connell
17-Mar-2004, 11:36
Actual 6x12 film back gate sizes:


Unless you have a super-expensive 6x12 back, I don't think you need to worry about it being more than 56x112 -- though the thread above predates the Shen-Hao back.

At 56x112, my math indicates a 125mm image circle would be required. Looks like someone might get away with the 47/5.6 SA but not the f/8 lens.

Frank Petronio
18-Mar-2004, 07:50
I always wanted a Sinar Handy because they look so cool! I also like Normas and Linhofs for the same reason - their industrial design is just so nice. So when I saw this on eBay I snagged it, and I've used it a few times. But since then, I've talked myself out of it.

I am "going digital" for commercial jobs but keeping my primary film cameras - especially the large format stuff because while the DSLR is wonderful, it won't be able to match 4x5 for a long time, if ever...

george verbryck
19-Mar-2004, 00:00
I made a camera using a 47/5.6 lens which is latter and multicoated and it covers 6x12 but only just and it is tricky. The example I have will mechanically vignet at aperatures above 16 works good at 16 and 11 with the center filter but of course this means it is sort of limited camera but I still love it I do not beleive that there any differences in the design between the single coated and multicoated lenses except the type of glass changed. Any way my camera is similar in design to a handy so results should be the same. I use the horseman back and it is exactly 56x112. I think only the linhof back is actually 56x120,so if you are not planning to spend $4000 on a back you should be OK. Cheers George

Frank Petronio
20-Mar-2004, 08:42
It also softens up at the edges, at least on the Handy. The last cm is obvious.

25-Apr-2004, 12:15
Some Brooks Veriwides were available with the 5.6 47mm lens.

I have one. And I have mounted it to a home-made 4x5 <http://wind.winona.edu/~stafford/sandwich-4x5>. The 5.6 lens just barely covers 112mm and only at F22. You will still get very dark corners, with clear mechanical cut-off, and rather diminished quality due to the extreme coverage and F22 aperture. But it sure is wide!

Frank Petronio
25-Apr-2004, 15:36
Just in case anyone else is interested in the Sinar Handy, my short experience with the one above was disappointing. I had wanted to try one since I found out about them twenty years ago, so when the opportunity to get one came up, I jumped at a low eBay auction from Lens & Repro. They had listed it in their price list for $1700+ for the past year; I got it for $1200 or $1250 on Ebay (I forget). I resold to a nice fellow a few weeks later for $1375, which nearly covered my investment in shipping and NYS sales tax. The camera was in exc plus to mint minus condition with perfect glass.

OK, the issues I didn't care for were that the build quality wasn't all that great - no better than a Sinar F. The viewfinder was a rebranded Mamiya - not bad, but not made in Switzerland either. The hand grip was plastic and, while perfectly fuctional, not exactly as nice as the wooden grip of a Cambowide. In use, the lens is exposed without bumper bars (this should be obvious) and makes it so you need to dedicated a large padded area of a case or bag for it. The handle, exposed lens, and vf make for a bulky camera to carry in a case - bulkier than most 4x5 folding field cameras by two!

In use, you need three hands. The Sinar back is very stiff, and trying to use the camera handheld I kept holding things between my legs. Hardly reassuring. Frankly, I think a handheld press camera (Technika, Graphic, etc.) is easier to load and shoot "in the hand." and I suspect a Cambowide or Linhof Technar with a horizontally mounted grip would be far more practical for holding, loading, and shooting. Plus the horizontal grip doesn't mess up the tripod mounting.

The 47/5.6 covers 6x12 at f/8 by my measurements, although a full 4x5 shows mechanical vignetting and severe loss of edge sharpness. That is the other problem with the idea of working with 6x12 or 4x5 handheld - to get DOF and some margin of error, you need to shoot at f/8 or 11. That forces you into using 400 ASA film - and Readyloads and Quickloads don't come in anything faster than 160 ASA color neg. So there is no easy solution, only a bunch of "best of" answers.

Thant said, the Handy is still a desirable and interesting camera simply because it looks so darn cool - like the Norma, I think it is one of Sinar's best looking cameras. But for use in field? I'd keep looking.