If I knew then what I know now.... [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

BradS

7-Oct-2012, 13:43

well, we're not dead yet....:)

I'll play. If I could do it all over again, I'm not sure I'd change much. I do wish that I had not wasted so much time, money and energy trying so many different cameras (both 35mm and 4x5). I would steer well clear of 8x10 and stay with 4x5 and 35mm. It turns out that the three cameras I've bought new (yes, only three! of over 100) and taken care of have lasted the longest and would have been just fine (I really didn't need all those others).

And, yeah, I cannot even begin to count all of the times I've driven by a place and thought, I would come back and photograph there...and never did...so, I agree with the OP, stop and take the damned shot no - matter what. Life is short and you may not pas this way again...and even if you do, the light will be different, a forest fire will have passed through the area, the building will be torn down or, they'll have put up a stop light at that intersection....seize the moment.

I used to take photography much, much too seriously. Worrying and obsessing, as so many do, about every little stupid detail. Learn to relax and enjoy yourself.

finally, as photographers, we are often forced to choose between "living the moment" and "capturing the moment". I really wish that I would have chosen to live the moment much more often than I did.

Dan Fromm

7-Oct-2012, 14:23

I've screwed around a lot with lenses for several purposes, regret getting few of them. But I wish I'd tried my 55/2.8 MicroNikkor AIS reversed for photomacrography before buying and trying other lenses of roughly the same focal length. At magnifications where it covers the format being shot, it is much better than good enough. Trying it first would have saved a lot of fumbling.

To add to the consensus, I should have shot more and I should shoot more.

Jody_S

7-Oct-2012, 14:36

I've come to realize that I'll never be more than a mediocre photographer. Competent, perhaps, but never inspired. If I had to do it all over again, I would take up model railroads or antique race cars or something that I might have a chance of being good at.

Photography-wise, I should have bought better LF gear (and film!) in '98-00 instead of my FD 800 5.6L. And I should have stuck with it then instead of giving up when I had a couple of discouraging failures. But I hadn't discovered Usenet and online LF communities, I didn't even have a book or a magazine. I just looked at stuff on fleabay and decided to try it. Oh, and I should have sought out galleries and museums that displayed photographs. Any photographs.

Frank Petronio

7-Oct-2012, 14:48

Oh experimenting with the lens and cameras was sort of fun, most of the time, but in the end I circled back to being quite happy with the same stuff I was using 20 years ago. What worked for pros back then was good, reliable, simple stuff so it probably wouldn't make a big difference whether it was a Sinar or a Toyo or Nikon or a Canon. I know that a $200 Nikon FM would be just as useful as a more expensive 35mm camera.

And even though I maybe broke even or slightly profited on the trading, it absorbed a lot of time that could have been spent photographing and editing, learning and all that. So I kind of regret the gearheadedness.

Dan Fromm

7-Oct-2012, 15:04

I've come to realize that I'll never be more than a mediocre photographer. Competent, perhaps, but never inspired. If I had to do it all over again, I would take up model railroads or antique race cars or something that I might have a chance of being good at.

Jody, if you measure yourself honestly against others you'll never measure up. In every field I've worked in, professionally or as a hobby, I've had the pleasure of knowing and rubbing minds with people who were better than me. That's life. There's no shame in recognizing reality and going on anyway.

jnantz

7-Oct-2012, 15:30

i'd probably wouldn't have bothered with the toyo i have
and would have just used a speed and a 5x7 with a reducer ...
its a nice camera but kind of useless when other things will do ...

and i would have used a coffee based developer from the start
and not wasted my time with xtol, dk50 tmaxrs and a few others
i have over the years. i keep sprint and ansco130 around though .. just in case.

dave_whatever

7-Oct-2012, 15:41

So I kind of regret the gearheadedness.

But then you might have spent 20 years wondering if you'd have been better shooting 10x8 or 35mm or whatever. Don't they say its better to regret something you did rather than regret someting you didn't do?

Personally I wish I'd have manned right up to 4x5 from digital/35mm about 5 years ago instead of messing around with 645 and then a 6x7 back on 4x5 for a couple of years.

Ben Calwell

7-Oct-2012, 17:06

After messing around with 8x10 and 5x7, I'm back to my 4x5 and liking it much better. As I get older, those larger cameras are just too much of a hassle for me and not worth the physical effort. My contact prints from those larger formats just didn't wow me.

David R Munson

7-Oct-2012, 17:27

I would have just kept shooting sheet film (I had about a 3-year hiatus). I wouldn't have sold the Linhof 4x5 and especially not the Deardorff 8x10 WFS that I completely reconditioned by hand. Or the old Ries A-100-equivalent that I completely reconditioned by hand.

Also, anyone here happen to own a Deardorff 8x10 with a rubbed oil finish and a blue nylon webbing handle? Seriously, I want that thing back.

Randy

7-Oct-2012, 17:48

I would have mastered one camera / one lens / one film-developer combination and stuck with that. I love all the equipment I have now, and have purchased, played with, and sold over the years, but I really wish I had of not been so intrigued by all the different gear available, and just used one decent system / material / method.

Alan Gales

7-Oct-2012, 18:00

I would have shot more on 4x5 than smaller formats or 8x10....

I understand regretting the smaller formats but I'm curious about why you regret shooting 8x10.

My buddy Harold decided to keep his Super Speed Graphic which I was trying to trade for so I purchased a Crown Graphic like you and some of the other members wisely suggested. Now, I regret not buying a used Crown back in the early 1980's instead of a brand new Contax 139 35mm camera. The Crown Graphic is a wonderful camera. I have found it extremely fast to set up and very stable.

I regret not shooting large format when I was young instead of waiting to my mid 40's.

Eric Rose

7-Oct-2012, 18:10

I've never had that much disposable income where I could jump around gear wise so I always bought the best I could afford. I also like to keep things simple and just get as much out of what I have as possible. Having said that I have gone full circle. From 35mm film to Rollei TLR then on to Blad. In the mix was 4x5 which got dropped for about 25 years. During the past 3 to 4 years I have been shooting digi trying to master that. Recently I have returned to 35mm film and 4x5 film. My good old Cambo monorail is way more fun to use than my Technica but at the time I just HAD TO HAVE a Technica and sold my Wista knock-off. Should have stuck with the woodie, but if I ask nice my wife lends me her Shen-Hao.

I bought a 1970 VW Cambo van as I too found I was blasting past stuff that I should have stopped to photograph. It sure is easier to slow down from 55 mph than 75-80 mph. The VW put me into an entirely different headspace that was very helpful in my creative pursuits (sorry no doobies). It also allowed me to stop just about anywhere and wait for the right conditions even if meant camping overnight.

For the look I love Tessar lenses. They just do it for me. If I could still get VPS film I would be in heaven. I still shoot digi for my clients but for everything else it's either a Nikon F5, Leica M5 / M3, or my Cambo. My Nikon scanner is not working anymore and really I could care less. Time to get back into the darkroom.

Teodor Oprean

7-Oct-2012, 18:35

I'm still a relative newcomer to photography, but I already have two regrets:

- I wish I had not bothered with 6x6 TLRs. Everything about the 6x6 format -- especially looking downwards into the camera -- feels completely unnatural. I find that TLRs have terrible ergonomics. I sincerely tried to compose for the square. I also tried to imagine while composing how I might crop the negative down to 645 later on. But no matter how much I persevered, the experience of using that format and type of camera just does not work for me. I have never been able to obtain a composition in 6x6 that I truly liked. A 6x6 SLR or rangefinder would not be able to change my mind about the format.

- I wish I had skipped medium format folding cameras altogether (Super Ikonta, Moskva and their variations). They're pretty to look at, but I found them completely unusable, so I got rid of them as quickly as I acquired them. Tiny, squinty, faint rangefinder windows. Inaccurate pop up frame finder. No double-exposure interlock. Flimsy tripod socket. The film never stays flat. Handholding is an exercise in frustration. I don't understand why these types of cameras were ever popular.

This is not meant to anger devoted fans of these collectible cameras. I just think that the time, money and effort I expended on trying to do photography with them was not worth it. The silver lining in this exploration was that I learned what to look for in a camera in addition to mere specifications. Ergonomics matter a lot.

Teodor

chassis

7-Oct-2012, 18:43

Cool thread. The only regret I have, a minor one, is my 8 year hiatus from film photography. I had to re-acquaint myself with technique and procedure, but it was a fun rediscovery.

Vaughn

7-Oct-2012, 18:48

If I knew then what I know now I 'd probably do it all over again!

Cletus

7-Oct-2012, 18:49

This may not be exactly the question you're asking, but I'll give it a go...

I've found that over the years, my progression from 35mm, to Medium Format to Large Format has more or less followed my progression as a photographer. I've always been a lover of cameras, lenses and photographic gear in general, but it seems to me as time has gone on, new cameras, camera formats and lens acquisitions have normally been in service to some "photographic vision" - although I'd be hard pressed to express precisely what that "vision" is. Style would be a more likely term I guess. Whenever I've moved into a new format, or type of camera, I feel like it's always (usually) been because that's what I thought I needed to make the photographs I wanted to make.

Of course, it could also be the other way around. Could just as easily be that the subjects I've been drawn to are more compatible with the next camera format I've wanted to try, or move up to. When I shot exclusively 35mm with the lovely Leica M, I thought I was (and would always be) a 'Street Shooter' and those were the type of subjects I was most drawn to. Was it because I just loved having and using that excellent camera, or just because that was the right tool for
the job/subject? Then when I started feeling like more static, less dynamic, Michael Kenna type subjects were more in line with my "vision", a larger camera was needed and the lovely Hasselblad came into the fold. And as the subject matter that I continued to be drawn to became more and more static, the 4x5 and finally 8x10 cameras came to be my preferred tools.

So knowing now what I didn't know then? I don't really regret any of the time spent in the past with formats or gear that didn't turn out to be what I hoped it would. It's all just experience to me and has brought me to where I am now. Wherever that is... I know now that I'll never be a street photographer and as much as I love the cameras, I'll probably never own a Leica again. I had to learn that by trying it out for awhile. I've long since sold the Leicas and lenses and will probably never even shoot a roll of 35mm film again - I'll get a little 4/3 or somesuch digicam if those kind of subjects ever begin to inspire me again. I am comfortable and happy with the work I do with large format. I'll always keep my Hassy, but it has become more of a snapshot camera now, for those times when there isn't time to get the big camera out, or where it would be too much of a distraction, etc..

The 4x5 is now and will probably always be my format of choice - the jury is still out on 8x10 - and unless I start getting bored with my current inspirations, or some major tectonic shift takes place in my creative soul, I will probably do nothing more than fine tune my current kits, add lenses, maybe try a few new camras ...Boy, but I sure do like the look of those Chamonix(es?), and I'd love to have a nice 360 or 450 lens for my 8x10...seems like there's always something else I want!

Brian C. Miller

7-Oct-2012, 18:55

What do I regret?

One instance of not having a camera loaded with color film.
One instance of not stopping to (literally) smell the roses.
And of course not asking that one cute young lady out.

But as for cameras and gear? Regrets? Are you kidding me? It's just cameras and gear. I've made a lot of good photos with old, basic equipment. I've never done anything with pretense, so no cares there. I've photographed as my heart has led me to photograph. That, and nothing more.

I regret not having a camera loaded with color film because one morning, near Anacortes, WA, the hillside was lit up by the rising sun. In the day you don't see the variation in the hillside at all, but this morning, sun beams turned them red. Bright red, not quite bright red, deep red, dark red, and nothing. It was beautiful. Camera was loaded with Tmax, other one was empty.

I photographed the old, abandoned house with Kodak HIE and E100. The house, the roses, the remains of a 1930s car, and on and on. But I didn't stop to actually smell those rose bushes, planted so many decades ago.

Corran

7-Oct-2012, 19:46

I guess instead of jumping back into photography after a childhood fascinated by it with a Nikon D90 and lens for $1000 I would have instead scrounged for a Nikon F, 50mm f/1.4, 28/2.8, and 85/2, a bucket of T-Max 100, some Rodinal, and a tripod.

I would've been way better off learning to develop my own film a year earlier. Also, I wish I would never have picked up that 20-pack of cheap expired 400-speed slide film in 35mm, it made me think 35mm sucked completely. Should've manned up and bought some real film.

So not much really.

jcoldslabs

8-Oct-2012, 03:16

The pleasure I get from shooting with a wide variety of gear is not something I would trade for anything else, period. I've learned over the years that is isn't the final result (the photograph) that is paramount but the fun I have in making it. In the past month I've used a Minox, Canon FTb, Rolleiflex 3.5F, Zeiss Super Ikonta, Diana plastic camera, ICA Universal Palmos 9x12, Speed Graphic, Toyo 45A, Calumet C-1, Kodak 2D and a Century 10A.

I am photographically schizophrenic, it's true, but I have no regrets.

Jonathan

John NYC

8-Oct-2012, 06:57

In hindsight, when I started taking photography seriously, digital had fully arrived. If I did it over again, I would probably just stick with my D90 until my most recent digital purchase (D800E) and not do any film at all again. Instead I got back into 35mm, started up with half a dozen MF cameras, and did 4x5 and then a lot of 8x10 color.

I learned a lot about old ways of doing things but that time would probably have been better spent shooting 10x more photos with digital, learning more about light (available and strobe) earlier than I did and concentrating on portraits.

BrianShaw

8-Oct-2012, 07:21

I must be doing something wrong -- I have no regrets. Maybe not having too much excess time to think helps me be happy. If I ever get to slow down and have some free time maybe I'll be able to think of a few regrets. But that isn't likely to happen any time soon.

Brian Ellis

8-Oct-2012, 07:37

I've never experimented with odd-ball lenses so I avoided that one from your list.

I've bought a lot of different cameras, sometimes the same brand and model camera at two different times (4x5 Tachihara twice, 8x10 Deardorff twice), but I enjoyed learning and using all of them. So while I finally stuck with a Linhof Master Technika as my final 4x5, I don't regret any of the cameras except the 4x5 Ebony which for me was a waste of a lot of money.

I've also learned and used several alt-processes, mainly gum and Vandyke brown, and didn't stick with them but I don't regret learning the processes and working with them for a couple years.

As I think about it, I've spent an awful lot of time and money on photography over the last 20 or so years - not just on materials and equipment but on workshops, travel, books, etc. - but I'd do it all again if I were starting over. It's been a lot of fun, I've gone to places and seen things I likely wouldn't otherwise have seen, and there are many worse ways to spend one's money than on photography.

One thing I sometimes regret is never having come up with a long-term project, i.e. something that led to creating a cohesive body of work. I've always been the kind of photographer who just photographs whatever I see that appeals to me and that I think would make a "good" photograph. I've thought from time to time about trying to be more "project" oriented but then I remember that I do this for fun and if I don't have a project I really want to do why try to create one just for the sake of doing one?

There also have been times when I've failed to stop to make a photograph that I later regret not making. Funny but I still remember some of those things many years later.

MIke Sherck

8-Oct-2012, 08:06

I regret not taking more pictures. Any other photographic sin can be forgiven but the pictures you don't take are lost forever.

Mike

John Jarosz

8-Oct-2012, 08:24

I wouldn't have wasted so much time shooting 4x5 and making internegs for alt process prints. I would have started 8x10 and ULF much much earlier. Of course, when I started, 8x10 and larger lenses were in the stratosphere price-wise. I couldn't have afforded it then.

Jody_S

8-Oct-2012, 08:24

Jody, if you measure yourself honestly against others you'll never measure up. In every field I've worked in, professionally or as a hobby, I've had the pleasure of knowing and rubbing minds with people who were better than me. That's life. There's no shame in recognizing reality and going on anyway.

I do, pretty much every day. But these days, I take as much joy from restoring a camera as I do from the actual photography. My last outing, I was carrying a Kodak 35 (non-rf), a Kalimar/Welmy, a Yashica Minister III, a Minolta Hi-Matic 7s, a Voigtlander Vitessa 500L, an Agfa Silette, and my 1898 Adlake Special box camera. All of them came to me non-functional a week ago. Of the bunch, only the Vitessa failed me, and it's mostly because of a design flaw and lack of replacement parts. The photos I took all look the same.

DrTang

8-Oct-2012, 08:25

shoot more polaroid as tests:

it was then cheapish, and fun and gave quick feedback for experimenting

tested lighting setups more:

so that when I do happen to go to shoot..I wouldn't have to use the one or two I know will work because I can't risk trying something different.

I'd choose the project over the GF

she dumped my ass anyway eventually. I coulda shot for those 3 years while my knees still worked

Peter Gomena

8-Oct-2012, 08:27

I would have taken the advice of a LF/alt process photographer to "bury your 35mm camera in the back yard."

Peter Gomena

drew.saunders

8-Oct-2012, 10:59

I would have bought more of the Toyo 4x5 holders when Freestyle was selling them, new, for an insanely low price (still got 10 of them, wish I had gotten 20 or more).

I would have bought Apple stock at $13/share and sold at $600.

I would have bought my 80SSXL used, since I don't use it nearly as much as I thought I would. The only other LF lenses I bought new were a 120 APO Symmar (at a very reasonable price) and a 200/8 Nikkor, also at a reasonable price, so there's no regret in buying them new instead of used.

Other than that, no real regrets in what I've learned and the fun I've had with photography.

Ed Richards

8-Oct-2012, 15:14

I was going to say that I regret selling my 4x5 gear in 1990 and not picking it up again until 2005. But I remember that I sold it because I was not taking pictures with it, and that was because I did not have time to do darkroom work or the money to have it done for me. It was not until scanning and working digitally got cheap that I could really shoot and make prints. I do regret that I started printing in 2005 and not in 2010 - I spent a bundle on paper and RIPS and printers trying to make decent black and white prints before the papers and printers were ready for prime time.:-) Like most of you, my primary regrets are the pictures I did not take.

jcoldslabs

8-Oct-2012, 15:25

I would have bought Apple stock at $13/share and sold at $600.

I remember standing in my kitchen in 1997 with my brother-in-law when NPR announced that Steve Jobs was returning to Apple after it nearly went bankrupt. I said to him, "We should buy a bunch of stock right now since Jobs' return has got to mean good things for Apple's future." No joke. Did I buy any stock back then? NOPE!

It's not photography related, but I will admit to regretting that one.

Jonathan

polyglot

8-Oct-2012, 16:24

My only regret is buying lenses new and wearing that 3dB first-owner's loss.

Ed Richards

8-Oct-2012, 16:29

I think we all need to buy at least one new lens to keep the cycle going.

John NYC

8-Oct-2012, 16:58

I think we all need to buy at least one new lens to keep the cycle going.

Plus there is nothing like owning a brand new piece of gear!

jeroldharter

8-Oct-2012, 17:20

I would have started 8x10 much sooner. Of course, to relive the past without that regret I would also need a pile of money.

Corran

8-Oct-2012, 17:22

I think we all need to buy at least one new lens to keep the cycle going.

Sometimes I feel bad for the companies I support and love because I have bought exactly one piece of gear new, everything else has been used. If anyone is curious, it was my D800E purchased this year.

Ari

8-Oct-2012, 18:08

I took my first photograph at 25, went pro at 28.
I should have started long before that.

rdenney

8-Oct-2012, 18:16

I don't regret any of it. It's all a road, and I would not be where I am now had I taken a different one. Would I be on a better road and in a better place? Can't say, but thinking about it in those terms is what creates regret. I am quite sure that I could be in a worse place. I suspect that had you taken the road you speculate about now, Frank, you'd now be wondering out loud if that road was the wrong one, contemplating regret for not having experimented with equipment more.

For me it's a hobby, just like music. I've done both professionally, but never with the level of commitment, and maybe even a little vision, which I've applied to my life's work. And I've never depended on either hobby for grocery money, except when I was in college. I have never regretted leaving both photography and music as hobbies--I've always known that I'd never rise above mere competence, while in my engineering work I had a shot worth pursuing at true excellence.

Each time I've bought a view camera, I though I was buying my last. As my needs grew, I ran into limitations of my previous cameras. The Calumet CC-400 could not do wide at all, and I wanted a system camera. The Cambo SC could do short lenses, but not short enough for rollfilm when I decided I needed to get back into using a view camera. By that time, I could get a Sinar for less than what I paid for that Cambo, in par dollars let alone real dollars.

I've also bought tubas, just like guitar players buy guitars. I don't regret that, either. I own a truly great instrument now, but I'd have never understood or or developed an appreciation for it had I not experimented a bit. I suspect that the change in equipment motivated me to practice and play more, and it still does. No regrets.

Rick "thinking contentment is a decision" Denney

Renato Tonelli

8-Oct-2012, 19:24

Tom T. Hall wrote and sang something like:
" Ain't no use in wanting to live my life over - I'd find different ways to make the same mistakes again".
That about sums it up for me in both photography and life in general.

John NYC

8-Oct-2012, 19:50

David Carson

8-Oct-2012, 21:26

I wish I had started shooting 4x5 in 1993 so I could've used more Polaroid type 55. I loved the the positive, never cared for printing.

Should've painted more. Should've shot more nudes. Should've picked the drums instead of the baritone in 4th grade.

And I almost sold my car to buy apple at $12.75/share. Damn.

John Kasaian

8-Oct-2012, 22:44

I would have started shooting 8x10 long before I did, made more photographs, and have stocked a few freezers full of TXP, TMY, Arista(back when it was Ilford) and AZO, and not wasted time and money on surplus aerial cameras & processors. I'd also have nabbed a Beseler 45 with an 8x10 conversion.

Kuzano

8-Oct-2012, 22:45

If I knew then what I know now, I would have picked one camera in MF at least, picked one film and one emulsion, and shot one style of photography until I could do it in my sleep.

I would have then had a better retirement plan than I do now.....

Not because of increased income from that single drive to perfect the career.... Oh No... rather from the Thousands of dollars I spent on equipment, differing film and other Gearhead stupidity. The only GAS I would have succumbed to would be the kind that drives you from the room.

adrian tyler

9-Oct-2012, 00:34

i recon that we have to do all the stuff we "regret" now in order to get where we are
but if i knew that then, then i wouldn't have done the dance through all the formats, S, M and L
just stuck with a simple 6x7 'till the D3x came out
but then would i now know what i know now?
nice one frank!
http://adriantyler.net/fantasmas_ghosts.html

Pawlowski6132

9-Oct-2012, 03:28

I wouldn't have bought expired film or paper just to save money. What a waste.

andreios

9-Oct-2012, 04:00

I still don't know almost anything but I can tell your "confessions" are really valuable piece of thinking for us newcomers in this game. :)

jcoldslabs

9-Oct-2012, 04:13

I wouldn't have bought expired film or paper just to save money. What a waste.

Whoa! That's about all I buy and I love it! I guess waste is in the eye of the beholder.

To be fair it does depend on what you want to do with it. If a long tonal range (negatives) and solids blacks (prints) are your cup of tea, then yes, stay away from the expired stuff.

Jonathan

Michael Graves

9-Oct-2012, 04:38

I would NOT have sold my Wollensak12" f4.5 Velostigmat.
I would NOT have sold my RB-67.
I WOULD have taken that trip to Reno with the Plaza 3 model.
I WOULD have picked up a Jobo a long time ago.

Michael Graves

9-Oct-2012, 04:40

...Should've picked the drums instead of the baritone in 4th grade...

You played baritone too? I remember carrying that thing back and forth from school. Darn thing was as big as me. But I loved it. No regrets there.

Sevo

9-Oct-2012, 05:10

... I would not have had as much fun doing what I did.

rdenney

9-Oct-2012, 05:31

I don't think the title of this thread was about regret, it was about making decisions differently if you had greater knowledge before. I don't "regret" anything I did. I just think if I knew then what I know now (as the title of the thread said) I would make different choices.

Regret seems to me implied by the notion that any past decision should have been different.

One of the most common expressions of regret begins with the phrase, "I wish I knew then what I know now..."

We've all said it, because we've all made mistakes of ignorance that we regret. But we also learn from those mistakes, and what we learn could be a more important ingredient in what we become than what we might have lost because of the mistake. We say youth is wasted on the young, but in fact the young take risks and experiment because they lack the experience of age, which includes the remembered pain of making mistakes.

My point was that we decide whether or not to be content with who we've become, or alternatively to allow ourselves to be consumed by past mistakes.

Rick "whose prior knowledge was based on fundamentally different conditions" Denney

John NYC

9-Oct-2012, 06:11

rdenney

9-Oct-2012, 06:36

Regret means feeling sad or repentant or disappointed. Possibly about missed opportunities but also about other things.

If you don't feel sad or disappointed in the choices you made, then by definition you are not regretful.

In which case you won't sit around wondering (as evidenced by a provocative post on a forum) whether you should have taken a different course.

Frank and I both started the sentence with the phrase, "If I knew then what I know now...", but the implied conclusion to that sentence is, "what would I have done differently." If the answer is anything at all, then there is regret, by your definition. If the answer is "nothing", then there is no regret, in which case it is appropriate to say, "I don't regret anything." But if regret is not allowed to be part of the discussion, then "nothing" is the only answer to the title question of the thread, and I suspect that's not what Frank intended.

Rick "actually not sad or disappointed by past choices, at least as regards photography equipment and experimentation with it" Denney

E. von Hoegh

9-Oct-2012, 07:38

Vaughn

9-Oct-2012, 07:40

If I knew about girls in high school what I know now, I would probably have had kids before I hit 18 instead of at 43!

If I knew about women when I was 33 what I know now, I might not have been married at 33 and divorced at age 56...but then I may not have three incredible boys.

If I had any sense at all, I would not worry about such silly "ifs" -- and since I do have some sense, I do not worry about (or take much time/energy thinking about) them!

John NYC

9-Oct-2012, 08:01

In which case you won't sit around wondering (as evidenced by a provocative post on a forum) whether you should have taken a different course.

Frank and I both started the sentence with the phrase, "If I knew then what I know now...", but the implied conclusion to that sentence is, "what would I have done differently." If the answer is anything at all, then there is regret, by your definition. If the answer is "nothing", then there is no regret, in which case it is appropriate to say, "I don't regret anything." But if regret is not allowed to be part of the discussion, then "nothing" is the only answer to the title question of the thread, and I suspect that's not what Frank intended.

Rick "actually not sad or disappointed by past choices, at least as regards photography equipment and experimentation with it" Denney

I think it is possible and desirable to review previous choices to understand how to make future choices... And to do such analysis without regret. It is a key way to accelerate getting good at something, especially art.

That is what I thought Frank meant but I am clearly in the minority.

Mark Stahlke

9-Oct-2012, 08:51

I've tried to live life by not regretting what I do and not doing things I'll regret. I regret not being more successful at it.

Jody_S

9-Oct-2012, 08:51

Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm
Jody, if you measure yourself honestly against others you'll never measure up. In every field I've worked in, professionally or as a hobby, I've had the pleasure of knowing and rubbing minds with people who were better than me. That's life. There's no shame in recognizing reality and going on anyway.

+1. If you're the smartest one in the room, you're hanging out with the wrong crowd.

I wasn't going to jump back into this, given how the thread has been going, but this is a fundamental misunderstanding of my original statement (poorly explained, entirely my fault- brevity can be a sin, if you miss your point).

I can execute technically difficult and complex photographs. I don't spend as much time on it now, but in an earlier life when I was doing wildlife photography, I was able to master some skills. I stopped and moved on to something else, because I realized that photography is an art, and what I was doing wasn't (art). It was reproducing photos I saw in magazines, albeit with my own little twist. Now that I've moved on to LF (with a side of tinkering with smaller formats but very obsolete gear), I find myself doing exactly the same: I'm reproducing classic views of subjects, as I've seen them on billboards, magazines, whatever. Fundamentally, these are not MY images, even if I've honestly crafted them with the tools in my possession. They're reproductions or reinterpretations of someone else's vision. And I don't know how to, or if I ever can, break this pattern and create an image that is uniquely mine.

After spending some years in academia studying psychology, I've come to realize that my brain works in fundamentals, in math, in physics, in logic... but I have no imagination. I can make connections, analyze, but my brain picks up new concepts only by studying them in some existing form. Above all, I cannot create a new connection between things that really aren't connected. I cannot create a new metaphor. The kicker for me was when I made the connection between this lack of imagination and the fact that drugs don't work on me (I don't get high on anything, far as I know, and that includes religiosity and meditation).

So why am I spending my life practicing an art form that is, at it's heart, the creation of visual metaphors, when I am in fact a born engineer?

marfa boomboom tx

9-Oct-2012, 08:56

I wasn't going to jump back into this, given how the thread has been going, but this is a fundamental misunderstanding of my original statement (poorly explained, entirely my fault- brevity can be a sin, if you miss your point).

------
After spending some years in academia studying psychology, I've come to realize that my brain works in fundamentals, in math, in physics, in logic... but I have no imagination. I can make connections, analyze, but my brain picks up new concepts only by studying them in some existing form. Above all, I cannot create a new connection between things that really aren't connected. I cannot create a new metaphor. The kicker for me was when I made the connection between this lack of imagination and the fact that drugs don't work on me (I don't get high on anything, far as I know, and that includes religiosity and meditation).

So why am I spending my life practicing an art form that is, at it's heart, the creation of visual metaphors, when I am in fact a born engineer?

Now, this IS interesting; honest.

the key to Frank's point was his final dit.

the boomboom is never the first question.

John Olsen

9-Oct-2012, 09:01

Thanks for starting this thread. When I think what I should have done I see that my wasted efforts were an inevitable part of experimenting my way to where I am now. I must believe in fate or something. But it would have been nice if I had managed not to have so many cameras stolen over the years.

cyrus

9-Oct-2012, 09:51

Whatever you didn't do, you'll end up wondering if you should have done. NO REGRETS! Just do it. etc. etc.

rdenney

9-Oct-2012, 09:55

After spending some years in academia studying psychology, I've come to realize that my brain works in fundamentals, in math, in physics, in logic... but I have no imagination. I can make connections, analyze, but my brain picks up new concepts only by studying them in some existing form.

There is nothing uncreative about being an engineer. But shining a light into darkness requires standing at the edge of the light, and in most fields, it's quite a difficult hike to get to the edge of the light. Even those who are credited with achieving great innovation found themselves at that edge only a few times, shining the light and seeing something useful only once or twice, maybe in a lifetime. Then comes the hard work of manifesting that insight into some tangible expression.

As I look at artists in other media over the centuries, I note that there have only been a very few whose innovations changed the course of the medium. Maybe only a handful. And then there were many others who understood that innovation and turned it into a school. And then legions whose expressions caused that innovation to become the standard practice from which the next innovation would depart. In contrast, there are a million new ideas that were either not particularly insightful or that never found clarity of expression that would allow others to take it down that road to general acceptance. Those artists probably think of themselves as victimized by the purposed misunderstanding of a pedestrian world. Sometimes they are right. But not everyone can be like them.

As an engineer, I have shone the light into darkness a couple of times in my career--and that was quite enough by itself to earn some reputation. But my true role and calling is to craft a useful expression for the ideas of others--others whose expressive skills are not quite up to their vision. I find that the ability to understand some new vision and express it bridges the gap between innovation and practice, and is itself nearly as rare a talent as having the vision in the first place. But without it, that vision is just the cranky weirdness of a crackpot who remains obscure and eventually forgotten.

I think it is always dangerous to declare any form of expression dead, if at least some people find that it enriches their lives. The innovators are quick to make such declarations, but that's their job. It's the job of others to explore what some past innovation might still have to offer.

A musical example: At the beginning of the 20th Century, it was quite fashionable among composers to assume that what are archaically called the church modes--which include what we now know as major and minor keys, but including many other modalities as well, such as the ancient Dorian mode that we now call the blues scale--were, well, done. What followed were various explorations into atonal and non-tonal musical expressions which were thought to be the way forward. All those who composed using those ancient scales were thought to be uncreative and obsolete. Of course, that was not the case--perhaps despite hundreds of years of effort not quite everything had been said about major and minor keys, or about the other church modes.

As an artist, I am not an innovator. I've gone through periods, particularly recently, where I could not even discern in my mind what it meant to innovate, or what the cognoscenti actually meant when they said something was fresh and new, or, most confusingly, honest. I'm to the point now where I don't much care. I'm just going to play, and if the product of my play turns out to be art, then fine. If not, well, I found satisfaction doing it to the best of my ability. But I suspect that even my photographs that I think are derivative of what others have done might still enrich a few people here and there, perhaps because I chose a subject dear to them, or captured a feeling using some hoary old technique that hit them at just the right time. I doubt that the cognoscenti will ever see my work to judge it in any case.

Summary: quit setting a standard for yourself that is for all but a very few (genius) crackpots just a fantasy.

Rick "who feels more than just technical things when photographing, and who suspects some of that might come through. Or not" Denney

Jody_S

9-Oct-2012, 10:41

Summary: quit setting a standard for yourself that is for all but a very few (genius) crackpots just a fantasy.

Rick "who feels more than just technical things when photographing, and who suspects some of that might come through. Or not" Denney

No. Never. If I have no goals, no standards, then why the fuck am I trying to achieve something? I might as well collect books of photographs.

Edited to add: my crackpot goals have never prevented me from taking photographs. They have merely caused me to change directions a few times.

E. von Hoegh

9-Oct-2012, 11:03

Every single event and experience in your life was essential in making you who you are, where you are, at this moment.

Dan Fromm

9-Oct-2012, 12:03

I wasn't going to jump back into this, given how the thread has been going, but this is a fundamental misunderstanding of my original statement (poorly explained, entirely my fault- brevity can be a sin, if you miss your point).

I can execute technically difficult and complex photographs. I don't spend as much time on it now, but in an earlier life when I was doing wildlife photography, I was able to master some skills. I stopped and moved on to something else, because I realized that photography is an art, and what I was doing wasn't (art). It was reproducing photos I saw in magazines, albeit with my own little twist. Now that I've moved on to LF (with a side of tinkering with smaller formats but very obsolete gear), I find myself doing exactly the same: I'm reproducing classic views of subjects, as I've seen them on billboards, magazines, whatever. Fundamentally, these are not MY images, even if I've honestly crafted them with the tools in my possession. They're reproductions or reinterpretations of someone else's vision. And I don't know how to, or if I ever can, break this pattern and create an image that is uniquely mine.

After spending some years in academia studying psychology, I've come to realize that my brain works in fundamentals, in math, in physics, in logic... but I have no imagination. I can make connections, analyze, but my brain picks up new concepts only by studying them in some existing form. Above all, I cannot create a new connection between things that really aren't connected. I cannot create a new metaphor. The kicker for me was when I made the connection between this lack of imagination and the fact that drugs don't work on me (I don't get high on anything, far as I know, and that includes religiosity and meditation).

So why am I spending my life practicing an art form that is, at it's heart, the creation of visual metaphors, when I am in fact a born engineer?

Thanks for the additional explanation.

I have no idea how to tell art from non-art. You must be able to, or you couldn't have posted what you did. What's the trick?

I can't see metaphors in images. I see ships, not ships plowing the sea. What's the trick? How to make the non-verbal verbal?

I've never seen photography as only art. There are many reasons to capture images. I shoot to record, sometimes capture an image that pleases too.

I've also never seen engineers as inherently uncreative. But then, I think today's characteristic art form is science and that the traditional arts are refuges for second-raters.

Jody_S

9-Oct-2012, 12:15

I can't help but notice that it is my fellow engineers who are responding to my post.

rdenney

9-Oct-2012, 12:31

No. Never. If I have no goals, no standards, then why the fuck am I trying to achieve something? I might as well collect books of photographs.

Edited to add: my crackpot goals have never prevented me from taking photographs. They have merely caused me to change directions a few times.

Where did I say to have no goals? What I said was this: Don't make innovation your goal, because it is a fantasy. Those who are truly innovative do not strive to be so--they just have an insight previously unseen, and the content of that insight is far more important to them than the fact that nobody else has seen it. They may later realize that it's something new, and that may excite them then. But at the time, they are pursuing an idea to wherever it leads.

I'm like Dan. I have no idea what constitutes innovation in art. I just make stuff that makes me feel satisfied, even if it is similar to stuff done by someone else. Frankly, that's a monstrous goal that requires extraordinary standards. I rarely achieve it, but I enjoy the pursuit.

Rick "thinking nearly all artists in the history of art--even the innovators--have extensively borrowed (okay, "built on" if that makes you feel better) from work they have seen" Denney

Jody_S

9-Oct-2012, 13:04

Thanks for the additional explanation.

I have no idea how to tell art from non-art. You must be able to, or you couldn't have posted what you did. What's the trick?

I can't see metaphors in images. I see ships, not ships plowing the sea. What's the trick? How to make the non-verbal verbal?

I've never seen photography as only art. There are many reasons to capture images. I shoot to record, sometimes capture an image that pleases too.

I've also never seen engineers as inherently uncreative. But then, I think today's characteristic art form is science and that the traditional arts are refuges for second-raters.

I was worried that I would offend engineers with my post. Well, I don't think engineers are 'uncreative'. They/we are 'unartistic'. Anyone who builds something creates. It doesn't matter if he/she builds a house that is identical to the one beside it; that's still creation. I say this because I spent the first 20 years of my working life as an electrician. I took a lot of pride in coming home at the end of the day, knowing that my day's labor would provide safety and comfort for a family for decades. In some ways, I miss that. I stopped for health reasons, partly; also because I kept looking for work-related challenges in a field where there simply weren't any. Any idiot can wire up a house, period. Well maybe not (insert politician of your choice).

So I went back to school. I studied maths, religion, English (not that you would know), and finally psychology. I learned that "what goes in comes out". I learned that if I wanted to direct my epiphanies, I needed to take in basic knowledge of different fields such as evolutionary anthropology (if I wanted a better understanding of politics and schizophrenia), or "the Philosophy of Religion", if I wanted to know why we have no real understanding of Religion (think in evolutionary terms, ie energy consumption and reproduction). It's a matter of stuffing your brain with knowledge of a field in which, honestly, you have little interest... because that knowledge, that way of looking at the world, will not just go away. It will turn up somewhere else in your mental life, at the oddest possible moment.

How do you do this with an art? I'll be damned if I know. I've tried studying poetry. I can't even begin, I can't recognize good poetry from the scribblings of a 6 year-old. Much less analyze why some poetry 'works' and some doesn't. I've spent years of my life wandering museums and galleries. Every now and then, I stand in front of something, in awe. That's the closest I ever get to feeling ecstasy. For all I know, the work I stand in awe of, is dismissed as derivative crap by the critics. I don't care. What matters is that I feel it, when honestly I don't feel things very often in my life. Every now and then, I can get this feeling looking at leaves falling on the grass, at the way the shadows fall on my wife's cheek as she sleeps, at the cold highlights on a staircase illuminated by moonlight. And I feel that those feelings are mine, are original somehow. But I can't record them. I can't reproduce them in a photograph. My photos pretend to contain the emotions that I have felt previously, in a different setting. I certainly can't take those feelings and weave them into a visual story, that leads the viewer along a path I have chosen. I lack the (visual) vocabulary.

BrianShaw

9-Oct-2012, 13:05

I can't help but notice that it is my fellow engineers who are responding to my post.

We need to stick together, otherwise nobody will understand us.

Frank Petronio

9-Oct-2012, 13:33

The idea with the post was more to clarify some of the black holes and dead ends that can absorb a lot of energy and resources at the expense of photography - but if you want to get metaphysical or talk about ex-wives that's fine too.

BrianShaw

9-Oct-2012, 13:38

... or talk about ex-wives that's fine too.

I can't do that... yet.

C. D. Keth

9-Oct-2012, 13:50

I think today's characteristic art form is science and that the traditional arts are refuges for second-raters.

Wow, that's insulting to an awful lot of people here and elsewhere. I'm sorry you think that. It shows surprising narrow-mindedness that I haven't noticed from your posts before. If your mind simply doesn't get art, that's fine. It's no reason to belittle those who create and follow art.

marfa boomboom tx

10-Oct-2012, 06:39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siu6JYqOZ0g&

edited
marfa --- a long way, along the way.

ImSoNegative

10-Oct-2012, 11:06

i would have skipped all the other formats and went straight to 8x10, i would have bought that 11x14 that needed a bellows for 150.00, not bought all the wide angle lenses i have and stuck with longer lenses. would have bought that mint 24in. kodak anatigmat for 50 bucks.

Drew Wiley

10-Oct-2012, 12:15

I would have skipped over my medium format phase completely. It lasted less than two years, and now is most least used category of equipment (though it is not completely
neglected).

thefurman

10-Oct-2012, 12:18

I would have started earlier. My biggest problem, as far as photography goes, is that I don't have the time to really have a go at it. I have chosen a long time ago not to concentrate on it professionally. I don't regret that choice for a plethora of reasons, but I'm left juggling a career, a family, photography, and my other major interests in life, trying to fit about twice as much into a 24-hour day as is humanly possible. I really really regret all those years I've spent putzing around "soul-searching" that could have been spent so much more productively.

Other than that, I don't regret a thing. I've done my share of stumbling around, sure. I've taken some pretty cliche images that still make me cringe when I look at them, I've spent more money than I should have on equipment I didn't really need, and so on. But all of these things were a learning experience and I honestly don't believe I can learn anything without making some painful mistakes of my own. Maybe there are people out there that can learn from the mistakes of others, but I'm sure as hell not one of them. All of the stupid shit I've done photographically has helped me find my voice, helped me zero in on what it is that I want to say with my work.

I have a long way to go. I'm sure in another 10 years, I will probably cringe when I look at some of the things I produce now. That's fine. What I really really do regret is that I've wasted a few years of my life when I actually DID have time to work on my photography. Now, I have to make up for it at the expense of getting enough sleep :)

Dan Fromm

10-Oct-2012, 14:18

Wow, that's insulting to an awful lot of people here and elsewhere. I'm sorry you think that. It shows surprising narrow-mindedness that I haven't noticed from your posts before. If your mind simply doesn't get art, that's fine. It's no reason to belittle those who create and follow art.

Christopher, there are very few first-raters anywhere. There are certainly a lot of second-rate and worse scientists. And I didn't really mean to belittle anyone or gore your ox.

As for what your ox, well, I've made movies in a half-assed amateur sort of way. I'm in awe of "Hollywood's" technical abilities and skill in telling stories with moving pictures, both of which greatly exceed mine. I appreciate the highly collaborative nature of film-making, also the difficulty of conceiving a film, keeping the concept in one's head, and realizing it. I salute you for trying to work in the field and salute you more for getting at least a toe in that door. I don't see Hollywood and art as antithetical -- the thought has been uttered -- even though a lot of absolute garbage comes from there, usually with high production values.

Cheers,

Dan

Oh, yeah, I don't see a connection between having a closed mind and having ideas about where the really creative people are. As always, I'm willing to be convinced that I'm mistaken.

Kodachrome25

11-Oct-2012, 12:21

I wouldn't have wasted so much time and money experimenting with so-called exotic speed and bokeh lenses, Prontor shutters, barrel mounts, etc. and just stuck with the "modern" normal Symmars and Sironars in ordinary black dial Copals of the 80s and 90s....

I would have stuck with a Sinar monorail for quality work and a Crown Graphic for handheld, down and dirty field work....

I would have shot more on 4x5 than smaller formats or 8x10....

I would have shot negatives instead of chromes....

Gotten more drum scans....

And most of all, I would have stopped the car and done the shot regardless.

What about you?

No regrets really, I do a fair amount of research before I take on a new lens let alone a new format. I don't like to experiment or play with different lens types all that much, it seems to get in the way of making great images. I also have no interest in 8x10 since I can not wet print it and frankly, it is too big and heavy for a lot of the places I like to go.

So when I decided to bring LF into the mix this year, I did a ton of research, figured out exactly what I wanted and it has turned out to be just that, perfect.

As for other formats, they are tools for the types of shots I am looking to do. I use 35, panoramic 35, 6x6, 6x12 and 4x5 and they all have their place, none is better than the other except for the ease of printing it.

If I have one small regret, it is going through about 70 sheets of 4x5 before figuring out that the only way for me to home process my 4x5 and get consistent and professional results is my Jobo CPP2 / 3010 and that everything else is just hobby-town dabbling...

Other than that, it's all good.

DougD

24-Oct-2012, 16:27

I only regret that some of the time and money spent on gear that turned out to be superfluous to what I really need took away from opportunities to shoot or gain access. I guess I've learned to value the subject matter more than the gear.

dmeckert

25-Oct-2012, 15:13

i'd have spent a lot less money...and given a lot less money to the likes of UPS and Fedex. lol

if someone had told me a few years ago that i'd end up doing everything with essentially 2 lenses and 2 lights, i'd have raised an eyebrow for sure. or that i'd be really into film again.

i also sorta wish i'd just moved to new york on a whim and given it a shot. (on my list for next summer).

i'd also have played high school football instead of going to music conservatory...but that's entirely unrelated. haha.

Helcio J Tagliolatto

26-Oct-2012, 09:17

i'd have spent a lot less money...and given a lot less money to the likes of UPS and Fedex. lol

if someone had told me a few years ago that i'd end up doing everything with essentially 2 lenses ...
......

i'd also have played high school football instead of going to music conservatory...but that's entirely unrelated. haha.

dmeckert,

me too......

Michael Batchelor

27-Oct-2012, 07:50

With some of the insane prices I see on eBay I think I can retire if I sell the stuff.

Somebody had an FR sheet film tank listed for nine hundred dollars a few weeks ago.

I think it was complete with the instructions, which obviously made it more valuable.

Don Dudenbostel

27-Oct-2012, 18:41

No regrets regarding gear. In the nearly six decades of shooting the only regret was not shooting everything I saw. I did a good job at it but looking back I wish I had shot even more. When your young you don't see the world changing and then when you do realize it it's too late. My thing is documentary photography of the Appalachian culture, serpent handling churches, moonshiners, cock fights and etc. it almost totally gone now but at least I have about one hundred thousand nets.

Duane Polcou

28-Oct-2012, 04:38

I would have made an effort to attend a Yosemite workshop and meet Ansel Adams. Not to be one of those folks who love to say "studied with Ansel Adams" on their photographic resume. But just to meet him. I've had a few conversations with John Sexton over the years (one of Ansel's assistants and a great photographer in his own right) and he's told me some amazing stories of Ansel's practices and ways of working. I think to meet him would have been an inspiration and a tremendous memory to carry with me.

Jim Peterson

28-Oct-2012, 10:45

Mr Petronio, I was curious about your statement, " I would have shot negatives instead of chromes". I was wondering what your thinking was on that. Thanks a lot.

Frank Petronio

28-Oct-2012, 10:57

Mr Petronio, I was curious about your statement, " I would have shot negatives instead of chromes". I was wondering what your thinking was on that. Thanks a lot.

I would have spent less on film (bracketing) and gotten more usable results had I shot negatives rather than slides and chromes.

Jim Peterson

28-Oct-2012, 11:18

Thanks for your insight Frank.

Ron Stowell

28-Oct-2012, 13:23

I would have enjoyed my youth more and worried less about trying to be what was expected of me.

jcoldslabs

28-Oct-2012, 15:49

I would have spent less on film (bracketing) and gotten more usable results had I shot negatives rather than slides and chromes.

+1

I was seduced by the whole Kodachrome mystique, and while I loved that film in smaller formats, I kept using chromes (Ektachrome, Velvia) as I moved up to 120 and then 4x5. I discovered the joys of shooting VPS and Portra in 4x5 far too late. In fact, I have two precious sheets of Portra 160 in 8x10 but I have yet to be able to click the shutter with those....yet.

Jonathan

cosmicexplosion

28-Oct-2012, 16:39

i regret not doing classes in LF instead of buying all the books on photography that are way to confusing for what has become a very simple process.

now i take a spot meter take a reading of the shaded areas i want detail, reduce by two stops, work out my exposure time and shoot.

for portraits i add a stop so the face is not mid grey.

i basically wasted a long time trying to learn by my self how to take pictures, and on an 8x10 its expensive

i probly should have started on 35mm like most people.

but now my negs have punch and look like solid negs and i could not be happier after almost quitting a few times.

i am now trying to sort out my printing....

i think i will write a book on how to shoot.

i think i can do it with out words and just using symbols like those found in airports.

it may only be a few pages.

but if i was to do it again, i would get a teacher and the one lens and one field camera, one film etc etc

but it it has still been a facinating journey, and has helped me become a cleaner more organized person!

andrew

goamules

1-Nov-2012, 07:51

I would have taken some of the high-adventure travel with my kids when they were 5 years older than I did. 1, 5, and 9 year olds don't remember camping in Mexico's Copper Canyon or the pre-revolutionary Alamos mining town, or riding into the high mountains of the Gila Wilderness. Yet, when they're young, they do whatever the parents show them....when they are teens everything I suggest gets a, "I don't want to do that..." response. At least they like the "regular" tourism still, like when I took them to Europe a couple years ago.

photonsoup

8-Dec-2012, 11:44

I'm new to LF, Got a camera some lenses and a bunch of accessories last spring. Finally got around to playing with it in the last month. I have only been shooting paper negatives and contact prints (only because I found out you could actually do it on this forum, thanks!).

I would like to chose one film, paper, chemical combo and stick with it while I learn. I haven't been in a darkroom since the 70's so I really have no idea what's out there and what will remain available. I looked at Freestyles web site and wonder how to choose? It would be nice to have the time and resources to try them all and see what sticks but thats not feasible.

Based on what you've learned from your experiences What single film, paper and chemicals would you recommend for beginner?
Things to consider:
ease of use
availability
cost
varied light source
wide variety of subject matter
what else should I consider that I am unaware of?

Thanks
Bryan

Michael Batchelor

9-Dec-2012, 10:28

Just from a practical view I suggest you choose either Ilford or Freestyle's Arista.edu. Both will be around for the duration.

HP5 is a great place to start.

polyglot

9-Dec-2012, 18:15

Just from a practical view I suggest you choose either Ilford or Freestyle's Arista.edu. Both will be around for the duration.

HP5 is a great place to start.

This is good advice. HP5 and FP4 are flexible will be around forever. If you want a cheap box of film to practise your camera skills (focusing etc), then the Arista is a decent option and will still produce first-rate prints. Because Arista/Freestyle rebrands stuff, it may change in future if they change suppliers; currently it is Fomapan. Fomapan does have drawbacks like poor reciprocity failure so just don't use it for long exposures if you can avoid that.

For a beginner, I would recommend against the Tmax and Delta films. They are absolutely excellent films (TMY2 is one of my favourites) but they require you to have very good control of your development process to get good results.

Same logic applies to paper: the Multigrade is top-notch and will be around as long as any product, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Arista (again, Foma or Adox) options at half the price. They're just subtly different. Get RC not FB for now.

For film developer, D76 1+1 is the cheap/classic/flexible option though you'll get endless disagreement on developer choice online (give Xtol and Rodinal a bash if you want to see some different results). For paper developer, doesn't really matter much; get something (eg Multigrade or Dektol) and get used to it.