Just dropped lens into five feet of water, should I get the wet suit and snorkel?

[Jim Fuller]

It was a cold morning and the lens slipped out of my hands and disappeared into 5 feet of cold, but fresh mountain water. Please advise as to weather I should try to salvage it. I'm sure I could find it, but what should I do to prevent damage? Thanks.

[Daniel Stone]

Take cells out of shutter, leave out for a few days to dry out.

Send shutter to a repairman of your choice to get worked thru, cells might need to get taken apart and cleaned, try focal point.

Google is your friend for both above vendors.

Dan

[Kirk Gittings]

I would think that in fresh water it would be salvageable? Maybe bring it up, let it drain well then pack it with desiccants for a good long time. Then strip it down send the shutter in for a cla and I don't know about the lense cells. What lens/shutter is it?

[Jim Fuller]

Thanks for the advice. It's a 300 Nikokor M that I picked up used.
Jim

[Simon Liddiard]

Think of it as a restorative dip, strip naked like the Skandie nations and embrace the cold! :)

[vinny]

Did that once. Lens came out fine (no shutter to get in the way though). They should make life jackets for those things.

[Amedeus]

Recover the lens, remove the cells and let dry. If you don't have desiccants, then use a hair dryer at low temp and at some distance ... you want a warm flow of air, not scorching hot. I recovered on two occasions my Nikon D2x and D3 with lenses attached this way. Fell in a creek with water in the camera and all. (Done it twice ... ) Both are working still fine. Had to clean the sensor and mirror but these are easy things to do.

If there's water between the lenses in the cells, get a lens spanner, open the cells and remove at least one of the lenses Dry with warm air, clean with medical grade methanol and lens tissue paper or sensor clean pads ... anything non-scratching works.

Ymmv.

[Simon Liddiard]

Rudi - that is encouraging to hear regarding Nikon D3's. I own a paid of D700's which I believe are weather sealed to a similar extent as the D3.

[Andrew]

your lens has been "flooded".... it's a major equipment disaster for underwater photographers
lots of information on the net if you google "flooded" and "nikonos"
forced drying with hairdryer might not be a good thing
good rinse in distilled water might help
the general advice is get it too a service technician ASAP

[Fred L]

If you have no commercial desiccant, a bag of white rice will work in a pinch. I'm wondering if leaving the lens in a wet condition (container with clean water) is a good idea or not so as things don't have a chance to dry out and leave marks/stains etc ?

[Jody_S]

DO NOT attempt to dry the shutter. Cells, yes. Pack the shutter IN WATER to send for repair (tupperware). But yes, very salvageable.

[winterclock]

Dry it out as much as you can as soon as you can, leaving it wet only invites rust.

[ic-racer]

It was a cold morning and the lens slipped out of my hands and disappeared into 5 feet of cold, but fresh mountain water. Please advise as to weather I should try to salvage it. I'm sure I could find it, but what should I do to prevent damage? Thanks.

I dropped an 8x10 lens in Copal #3 in water when the lensboard fell off the front of my Century. I can say that the Copal #3 bubbles 3 times when submerged.
I was close to home so, within 15min I had it disassembled. I opened up the shutter and cleaned the mud and then dropped the whole shutter in naptha and then took the front and rear cells apart and dried all the elements. I re-lubed the shutter and re-assembled in less than an hour. No way to tell it was ever under water.
In the case of your lens...has it been 15 minutes yet?:eek:

[Jim Fuller]

Thanks for all the help. I went back to the disaster scene with my snorkel and found it about three feet down. I've rinsed it with clean water, taken the lens cells off and am adding greater percentages of Isopropyl alcohol to the mix. I should start drying it out soon, unless I get more votes to pack and send it off wet. Good news--the lens cells look unscratched. Thanks you all for your ideas.

Jim

[goamules]

The idea of sending it to someone immersed in water, while perhaps doable, is way over the top. This isn't a 300 year old viking relic from the bottom of the sea. It's a mechanical device, like a carburetor or wristwatch. Dry it out by gently blowing canned air into it, while working under a hot light. I'd guess getting it up to about 100 degrees, like it would around here in the sun (or there under a lamp overnight) should do it. When dry, it would probably work again, but it will need lube from all this, that's what the technicians are for....unless you want to try that too.

Sending it to a camera tech in a water bottle will just give them a laugh, then they'll do the above.

[Frank Petronio]

Probably doesn't hurt to keep it in a jar of clean water. Might well see if the glass is scratched first?

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

When I did this years ago, Steve Grimes recommended that I give the whole thing a good rinse in distilled water, drip dry, send it to him in a plastic baggy, and let him know to open it right away.

[Amedeus]

Off topic here but yes, there was water in either camera and lens, sensor got wet and all that good stuff, D3 started firing automatically till I got the battery out. The warm air drying process took about 24 hours in case of the D3, less for the D2x as that one was not as long under water and there was less water in the unit.

As for the on topic matter ... rinsing in clean water is not a bad idea if your equipment has been in muck. Leaving it wet or submerged is not a good idea imho as this is only inviting oxidation ... doesn't take much ...


Rudi - that is encouraging to hear regarding Nikon D3's. I own a paid of D700's which I believe are weather sealed to a similar extent as the D3.

[Frank Petronio]

You guys who recovered wet lenses and cameras... what are your eBay IDs?

[Amedeus]

You guys who recovered wet lenses and cameras... what are your eBay IDs?

you're funny :)

Still shooting with my D3, D2x and the 28-70mm F2.8 ;-)

[C. D. Keth]

It'll be fine. Get the shutter to a professional and let them deal with it. The lens cells are easy to dry out.

I sent a lens back to panavision one time packed in a 5-gallon bucket of bottled water. It had taken a dip in salt water, so I put it in the bucket and ran fresh water through it until I thought the salinity was essentially zero. I got the same lens (they're serial numbered) on a job some time later and would have never known it took a dip.

[Two23]

What about taking the lens cells out, dousing the shutter internally with about half a can of WD-40, letting it drip dry overnight, and then mailing it off to a repairman? The idea of water sitting on steel gives me the willies.


Kent in SD

[Jody_S]

What about taking the lens cells out, dousing the shutter internally with about half a can of WD-40, letting it drip dry overnight, and then mailing it off to a repairman? The idea of water sitting on steel gives me the willies.


Kent in SD
Ouch! WD40 is a nightmare to remove from a shutter. The whole 'leave it in water' issue is about preventing rust from starting on the blades, especially. If you use flat water, such as a bottle of distilled, and fill to the brim in a container or properly-tied baggie, there isn't enough oxygen in the water to allow corrosion to begin, even if it's left for some time. Rust is an oxidation process. Any attempt to dry the shutter that doesn't completely remove the water from all the blades, shutter and aperture, will soon be followed by rust, which is a real pain in the ass to clean and can make the shutter part unrecoverable. The suggestion of an alcohol rinse is an appropriate way to dry the shutter without leaving water on the blades to start the rusting process, but it must be repeated several times, all the while blowing it out with compressed air. In fact, the shutter might be recoverable with no further action.

[Two23]

Ouch! WD40 is a nightmare to remove from a shutter. The whole 'leave it in water' issue is about preventing rust from starting on the blades, especially. If you use flat water, such as a bottle of distilled, and fill to the brim in a container or properly-tied baggie, there isn't enough oxygen in the water to allow corrosion to begin, .


I've had basic college chemistry. OK, I can see where the WD would be tough to remove. What about carbon tet or lighter fluid? Pure alcohol might work too, and would quickly evaporate.


Kent in SD

[Jody_S]

I've never personally dropped a lens in a stream, so I've never had to do this. I hear alcohol is perfect, but yes it does have to be pure. I use both lighter fluid and an electronics wash spray that is alcohol-based, but with no water (the label on the can is a little scary). The alcohol spray dries much faster than the lighter fluid, but I'm leery of using too often because I don't like to get it on my hands or breathe in the fumes when I blow it out.

I have resurrected shutters on 35mm rangefinders that have gotten wet, they never run the same once they've started to rust. I've also salvaged apertures on barrel lenses that were flooded and badly rusted, that's much easier because they can be left oily or covered in grease. They just look really ugly and can't be left in the heat or the oil will migrate.

[Tim Deming]

[QUOTE=Two23;940483]I've had basic college chemistry. OK, I can see where the WD would be tough to remove. What about carbon tet or lighter fluid? Pure alcohol might work too, and would quickly evaporate.

Kent, carbon tet is highly toxic. It, and lighter fluid, wont mix well with water, so wont help remove it. Concentrated alcohols, i use neat isopropanol, work best, and are the safest options

Tim

[E. von Hoegh]

Thanks for the advice. It's a 300 Nikokor M that I picked up used.
Jim

Where do you live? I'll go in and get it, that's a nice lens.
If you do get it out, uncscrew the cells and put the shutter in a jar full of drygas from the local convenience store - get 2 or three containers of drygas and wash all the water out with several changes of drygas (isopropyl alcohol). Then drive off the drygas with a hairdryer and send the shutter off for a CLA.

If water has gotten inside the lens cells, send those off too. Even if the cells are dry inside, they should probably be properly disassembled and cleaned to make sure the threaded parts do not corrode and freeze.

[Drew Wiley]

When my friend dropped a Zeiss lens into the creek this past Aug he aired it out in the sun
and watched the fogging slowly but not completely dissipate. I told him how to make a little dessication chamber when we got out of the mtns. But he was impatient and decided
to use the lens anyway. And yesterday he called to tell me he had actually printed some
shots, one being a portrait of me using my view camera. I'm interested to see exactly how
the "soft focus" (soggy focus) image came out. Maybe Jim Galli has some competition.

[cyrus]

Do NOT let it dry. Rinse with distilled water instead. (A quick dip in alcohol may also help it dry out but may affect other things like rubber)
Then you can let it dry before taking it to have the shutter mechanism checked/lubed. The lens elements should be fine.

[rdenney]

What makes water cause problems with metals is that it provides an electrolyte for corrosion. It's the salts in water that do this, as I dimly recall from chemistry. Distilled water has no salts, so a thorough rinsing in distilled water will prevent a lot of the corrosion and nearly all of the deposits that might be left behind by evaporation.

Were it me, I would rinse thoroughly in distilled water, put the shutter (no need for drying it, it seems to me) and lens cells in separate plastic bags, and ship it off to a repair tech with some advance warning so that he'll know it's coming. Distilled water is dead--it won't grow mold unless the mold is already there. It's a lot easier to dry it when it's at least partially disassembled. Any drying with the use of alcohol will also dissolve any lubricant, so it has to go to the repair tech in any case.

Do not ever, ever apply WD-40 to anything photographic. (Or to anything else, for that matter.) Much ruination has resulted from that product.

Rick "who always rinsed his Nikonos off in distilled water to wash away any dissolved salts before allowing it to dry" Denney

[Drew Wiley]

Some mtn snowmelt can be nearly as pure as distilled, with almost no mineral content at all. By contrast, I've had drops of water falling from sandstone springs on cliff walls in
canyon country where the mineral content was so high that it instantly and permenently
bonded to the lens, reminiscent to what sodium silicate concrete sealers do to glass shower enclosures or patio doors. But I would agree that WD40 is just about worthless for
anything, and would never dream of using it on a camera, let alone a lens.

[E. von Hoegh]

Wow. You guys don't have much experience with things that have gotten wet.

Corrosion begins and continues as long as the water is present. Water with carbon dioxide makes a weak acid. Water and almost anything makes an electrolyte.
Dry that thing with drygas ASAP. Have the shutter and cells serviced.

[rdenney]

Wow. You guys don't have much experience with things that have gotten wet.

Corrosion begins and continues as long as the water is present. Water with carbon dioxide makes a weak acid. Water and almost anything makes an electrolyte.
Dry that thing with drygas ASAP. Have the shutter and cells serviced.

What do you mean "drygas"? You speak of it as if it's a convenience-store product, but I have no idea what you are talking about, or how one would buy it in the sort of hurry that would be needed in this case. If it has to be mailordered, one might as well ship the shutter to a repair technician and let him dry it what what he has on hand already.

Rick "who might be able to dry it in a vacuum more easily" Denney

[BrianShaw]

I know little of it, but I think "drygas" is a product used in Wisconsin and Upper Penninsula Michigan to purge melted snow from gasoline. I think a few mariners also use such a product too.

http://www.drygas.com/html/about_us.html

[rdenney]

I know little of it, but I think "drygas" is a product used in Wisconsin and Upper Penninsula Michigan to purge melted snow from gasoline. I think a few mariners also use such a product too.

http://www.drygas.com/html/about_us.html

Thanks. First I've heard of that product, though I've heard of similar products such as HEET. These products are getting rarer these days in cities that sell fuels oxygenated with ethanol, which has all but eliminated the water-in-gasoline problem.

Rick "wondering if the local auto parts stores have it on the shelf" Denney

[BrianShaw]

There are many products of that type. More if you one looks in marine supply shops... or those catering to small engines (lawnmowers, leaf blowers, weed whackers, etc)

[E. von Hoegh]

What do you mean "drygas"? You speak of it as if it's a convenience-store product, but I have no idea what you are talking about, or how one would buy it in the sort of hurry that would be needed in this case. If it has to be mailordered, one might as well ship the shutter to a repair technician and let him dry it what what he has on hand already.

Rick "who might be able to dry it in a vacuum more easily" Denney

Drygas is a fuel additive - isopropyl alcohol - to prevent the buildup of condensation in automotive fuel systems. It is useful in any climate which involves humidity and temperature changes. Any convenience store which also sells gas will have it (in the N.E. United States and likely elsewhere), since the op is in Connecticut........

[E. von Hoegh]

Thanks. First I've heard of that product, though I've heard of similar products such as HEET. These products are getting rarer these days in cities that sell fuels oxygenated with ethanol, which has all but eliminated the water-in-gasoline problem.

Rick "wondering if the local auto parts stores have it on the shelf" Denney

You have to be joking about the ethanol...

Yes, an auto store will have it and many other products containing other ingredients which will do about the same thing. The OP needs to use the product which is reasonably pure isopropyl, not the ones which contain fuel injector cleaners and so on.

[Drew Wiley]

Gosh - can some kind of chemical be trusted around lens cement and coatings??? I'd feel
a lot safer using baked out silica gel. Done it several times with perfect results, and the
lens still clean a couple decades later. But it's been pretty clean water each time - or at
least it was largely snowmelt - I'd know, since I was dunked too, and it was pretty damn
cold!

[E. von Hoegh]

Where do you live? I'll go in and get it, that's a nice lens.
If you do get it out, uncscrew the cells and put the shutter in a jar full of drygas from the local convenience store - get 2 or three containers of drygas and wash all the water out with several changes of drygas (isopropyl alcohol). Then drive off the drygas with a hairdryer and send the shutter off for a CLA.

If water has gotten inside the lens cells, send those off too. Even if the cells are dry inside, they should probably be properly disassembled and cleaned to make sure the threaded parts do not corrode and freeze.

My original post regarding drygas. I said "drygas" because a) I thought everyone woud know what it was and b) because it should be easily and rapidly available.

[goamules]

As I said much earlier, I'd dry it out quickly with canned air, under a hot lamp. When it's almost dry, use the alcohol or the "drygas" mentioned. I'm no forensics scientist but to those that keep suggesting it must be sent "somewhere" immersed, so some "super camera CLA tech" can dry it I ask: What do you think they are going to do to dry it, that the owner can't do? Use sharks with lasers on their heads? Industrial freeze-dry chamber? Wind tunnel? Sheeze...a camera tech is just a technician, not some guru Holder of All Knowledge and Processes.

[rdenney]

As I said much earlier, I'd dry it out quickly with canned air, under a hot lamp. When it's almost dry, use the alcohol or the "drygas" mentioned. I'm no forensics scientist but to those that keep suggesting it must be sent "somewhere" immersed, so some "super camera CLA tech" can dry it I ask: What do you think they are going to do to dry it, that the owner can't do? Use sharks with lasers on their heads? Industrial freeze-dry chamber? Wind tunnel? Sheeze...a camera tech is just a technician, not some guru Holder of All Knowledge and Processes.

What the tech can do is at least uncover the internals before blowing warm air on it, so that the air can actually do something other than just make it hot.

I couldn't find an MSDS for Drygas. The closest thing I could find was less than 15% ethanol and the rest nitrogen as a propellant, so obviously not the same stuff. Anything that is undiluted isopropyl alcohol but its contents are hidden behind a product name must have an MSDS somewhere. Despite having served time as a professional mechanic and lived in all the necessary humid climates, I had never heard of it. I'm quite sure that only an auto parts store, and a reasonably well-stocked one at that, would have something like that around these parts. I'll look next time I'm there--sounds useful for other things.

Rick "a native of the Gulf Coast who has dried lots of things that have gotten soaked" Denney

[E. von Hoegh]

Rick, you must have a blockage. http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/msdshazcom/htdocs//MSDS/A/Ashland/wcd00006/wcd00607.htm

I find it incomprehensible that anyone with any experience whatsoever working on vehicles hasn't heard the term "drygas".

My local Stewart's has it. The local Wilson Farms has it. Price Copper has it. Hannafords has it. This in a town of 3000 people.

Edit - Rubbing alcohol, 90% isopropyl, is almost the same thing.

[Bruce Watson]

...clean with medical grade methanol and lens tissue paper or sensor clean pads ...

No, don't. Methanol, ethanol, etc. can strip an anti-reflective coating right off a lens. Been there, done that, not happy about it.

If you've got to clean it, use an anti-reflective coating cleaner. Beware the coating on inside surfaces -- can be very soft and therefore very easy to scratch and scuff.

When in doubt, send it all off to someone who knows how to repair LF lenses and shutters and let them do it.

[BrianShaw]

I find it incomprehensible that anyone with any experience whatsoever working on vehicles hasn't heard the term "drygas".


That might be the only thing that Rick "The Rennaissianse Man" Denny has no experience with. :)

[rdenney]

Rick, you must have a blockage. http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/msdshazcom/htdocs//MSDS/A/Ashland/wcd00006/wcd00607.htm

I find it incomprehensible that anyone with any experience whatsoever working on vehicles hasn't heard the term "drygas".

I find it incomprehensible the limits of your comprehension.

The blockage was all Google--I looked and didn't find it. Thanks for the link.

Edit: That is a link for a different product, made by Valvoline. I suspect you have taken a product name and generalized it, like Kleenex or Coke. Perhaps Cristy Drygas (which is the product) is regional. I've certainly heard of alcohol-based gas dryers of various brands, but never knew them under the name "drygas".

Edit 2: None of the retailers you mentioned are known to me, either.

Rick "who thought he explained it simply enough" Denney

[rdenney]

That might be the only thing that Rick "The Rennaissianse Man" Denny has no experience with. :)

That's DennEy.

Rick "and Renaissance" Denney

[BrianShaw]

OK, Rik... got it! :rolleyes:

[rdenney]

OK, Rik... got it! :rolleyes:

Hah!

Rick "wishing he could spell a strawberry" Denney

[Drew Wiley]

My gosh - how do you know alcohol-soluble cements aren't involved? They're not all UV
cure cements by any means, esp the older ones. And how do you know this whatever
Drygas stuff doesn't have accidental contaminants? I'd just take the damn lens into the
dkrm and clear it with my triple-filtered (submicron) oilless airline, and then into the
dessication box a couple weeks. Rinsing first with distilled ain't a bad idea, unless the lens
has already dried out some. But last time I did send a fogged lens to a tech it came back
in worse shape than if I'd done it myself the simplified way. People used to clean everything with kerosene and vinegar too.

[BradS]

I find it incomprehensible that anyone with any experience whatsoever working on vehicles hasn't heard the term "drygas".

I put myself through college swapping engines in Japanese cars and doing all manner of routine auto maintenance. After graduating, I worked for one of the big three auto makers....I've never heard of "drygas".

[BrianShaw]

....I've never heard of "drygas".

Brad... look at your location. None of us in "Cali" know of drygas unless we've travelled to the East in winter. :D

[Vaughn]

Wetgas messes up your shorts...

[rdenney]

Wetgas messes up your shorts...

And that was exactly the sound effect I wanted to send to Brian. Thank you.

Rick "passing" Denney

[c.d.ewen]

Dee-da-dee-da-dee......(can't find the whistling smilies).

Just passing by this thread and couldn't resist the urge to be a wiseass (seeing as how it's finally gotten scatological).

How come nobody's pointed out that alcohol soaks aren't the perfect solution, as most alcohols I know of - isopropol, ethanol, etc - are azeotropes, i.e., they're always part water.

Oh, and drygas availability is inversely proportional to the availability of good BBQ :rolleyes:

Charley

[E. von Hoegh]

My gosh - how do you know alcohol-soluble cements aren't involved? They're not all UV
cure cements by any means, esp the older ones. And how do you know this whatever
Drygas stuff doesn't have accidental contaminants? I'd just take the @#!*% lens into the
dkrm and clear it with my triple-filtered (submicron) oilless airline, and then into the
dessication box a couple weeks. Rinsing first with distilled ain't a bad idea, unless the lens
has already dried out some. But last time I did send a fogged lens to a tech it came back
in worse shape than if I'd done it myself the simplified way. People used to clean everything with kerosene and vinegar too.

Had you read my reccomendations you would have noted that I specifically reccomended putting the shutter in the alcohol, not the lens cells.

[E. von Hoegh]

I put myself through college swapping engines in Japanese cars and doing all manner of routine auto maintenance. After graduating, I worked for one of the big three auto makers....I've never heard of "drygas".

Still incomprehensible.

[BrianShaw]

Dang... I'm sending all y'all some Midol. You guys seem to be having a couple of tough days. :)

[E. von Hoegh]

Dang... I'm sending all y'all some Midol. You guys seem to be having a couple of tough days. :)

I prefer schnapps.

[Jody_S]

4 pages of 'drygas'? Really? Well if nothing else, perhaps it has persuaded the original poster to send the lens off for repair ASAP rather than take advice here.

[Vaughn]

Hitler used drygas...:rolleyes:

[E. von Hoegh]

4 pages of 'drygas'? Really? Well if nothing else, perhaps it has persuaded the original poster to send the lens off for repair ASAP rather than take advice here.

Which was my advice in my first post.(winking smiley)

[E. von Hoegh]

Hitler used drygas...:rolleyes:

Hitler invented drygas. IG Farben made it.

[BrianShaw]

I thought Martin Luther included drygas in the Luther Bible... only to be removed by King James in his Bible.

[E. von Hoegh]

I thought Martin Luther included drygas in the Luther Bible... only to be removed by King James in his Bible.

Nope. Drygas was a product of "der Dritte Reich". I think Martin invented wetgas, he was a proponent of enjoying the fine beers God gave the Germans...

[rdenney]

Oh, and drygas availability is inversely proportional to the availability of good BBQ :rolleyes:

Apparently.

Rick "though not finding much good* barbecue in these parts" Denney

*being from Texas, "good" has a rather narrow definition.

[rdenney]

I prefer schnapps.

Works for me.

Rick "or perhaps some gin" Denney

[E. von Hoegh]

Works for me.

Rick "or perhaps some gin" Denney

I like a gin & tonic. I rationalise it with the quinine to treat malaria, those mosquitos are moving north with global warming.

[c.d.ewen]

*being from Texas, "good" has a rather narrow definition.

Y'all from Luling? Even my wife will eat City Market.

Charley . . . a Yankee who likes BBQ, but must use ellipses, as parenthetical delimiters are taken already

[Drew Wiley]

OK ... I get it. Alcohol only for the shutter, that makes sense. And in the woods just about
every deer hunter has a bottle of that. And every backpacker comes naturally equipped
with buttane too, so guess all one needs is an airhose, and you've got everything necessary to clear a lens.

[rdenney]

I like a gin & tonic. I rationalise it with the quinine to treat malaria, those mosquitos are moving north with global warming.

Based on my several trips to Alaska, they are already north.

Rick "but who'll adopt any rationalization as necessary" Denney

[rdenney]

Y'all from Luling? Even my wife will eat City Market.

Charley . . . a Yankee who likes BBQ, but must use ellipses, as parenthetical delimiters are taken already

Oh, yes. But then there's Lockhart (up the road from Luling), Elgin (up the road from Lockhart) and any of a hundred other spots where good barbecue just comes naturally.

Rick "yet to find any sliced brisket outside Texas that really measures up" Denney

[rdenney]

OK ... I get it. Alcohol only for the shutter, that makes sense. And in the woods just about
every deer hunter has a bottle of that.

Only if it's 200 proof.

Rick "who can find that easily around here, but who refuses to disclose how" Denney

[E. von Hoegh]

Based on my several trips to Alaska, they are already north.

Rick "but who'll adopt any rationalization as necessary" Denney

Anopheles?

[E. von Hoegh]

OK ... I get it. Alcohol only for the shutter, that makes sense. And in the woods just about
every deer hunter has a bottle of that. And every backpacker comes naturally equipped
with buttane too, so guess all one needs is an airhose, and you've got everything necessary to clear a lens.

Huh?

[BrianShaw]

I seem to come naturally equipped with methane. :o

[E. von Hoegh]

I seem to come naturally equipped with methane. :o

I was remarking on "buttane".

[BrianShaw]

... so was I.

[E. von Hoegh]

... so was I.

We really need better smileys.

[BrianShaw]

or maybe I should have spelled it "MEthane"?

[BrianShaw]

I... me... get it?

[c.d.ewen]

Oh, yes. But then there's Lockhart (up the road from Luling), Elgin (up the road from Lockhart) and any of a hundred other spots where good barbecue just comes naturally.

All in all, I'd rather be in Shiner. :D

Charley