Do You Lube Mono Rail Movements?

[RedSun]

This is a Sinar X and a Sinar P2, both in good condition. It is just that some of the movements are hard to turn. I do not know if they are supposed to be like this because they are heavy cameras. But over time, the rubber cover for the turn knobs can be worn.

Can I lube them? If I can, what should I use? synthetic machine oil? WD-40? or Graphite power?

[tgtaylor]

I haven't applied any lubricant to my monorails but I have lubricated the moving parts of my Besseler 45MXT with Elmers Slide-All Dry Spray Adhesive.

Thomas

[E. von Hoegh]

This is a Sinar X and a Sinar P2, both in good condition. It is just that some of the movements are hard to turn. I do not know if they are supposed to be like this because they are heavy cameras. But over time, the rubber cover for the turn knobs can be worn.

Can I lube them? If I can, what should I use? synthetic machine oil? WD-40? or Graphite power?

I'd use a light molybdenum disulphide grease, I believe Sinar supplied it with new cameras at one point. Do not use WD-40. For new lubricant to be effective, you must first remove all traces of old lube.

[Ken Lee]

As E. von Hoegh said, be sure to use the right product. The wrong one can make matters much worse.

Thinking myself clever, I used some dry bicycle lubricant on the rear standard of my Sinar P... not wise.

I eventually sent it to George Brown for CLA. (I had purchased it used - and not in pristine condition - so after roughly 40 years of use, a little professional attention did not seem unreasonable.)

[Frank Petronio]

The stiffness may not just be old gummy lubricants. There are replaceable Nylon sliders where the standards meet the rail, these wear and need replacement and adjustment. I know there is a maintenance guide for Sinar Normas online but perhaps there is also one for the P? But with my limited skills I would opt to send it off for servicing, the standards are fairly complex.

[tgtaylor]

I haven't applied any lubricant to my monorails but I have lubricated the moving parts of my Besseler 45MXT with Elmers Slide-All Dry Spray Adhesive.

Thomas

I meant to type "Lubricant" instead of Adhesive. It works well as long as you clean the surface first, apply iot, and then wide it with a clean cloth. It doesn't leave an oily residue. Besseler recommends lubricating the moving parts every 6 month with "a small amount of Lubriplate or a medium weight oil.'

[RedSun]

From time to time, you will see some sticky lubricant comes out of the Sinar gears. It does not seem oil based and it is very light. I just wonder what it is.

On the other hand, the Sinar X and P2 have not been used often. I have no problem with the F2 since the movement parts are light. But for the X/P2, the fine focus knobs seem hard to move. I'm not sure if this is normal since I may be used to the fast moving of the F2.....

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

E. von Hoegh,
Wouldn't first using WD-40 to clean the old lubricant off, wipe dry/scrub the heck out of it, and then apply the new lubricant. WD-40 is a very light cleaning lubricant that evaporates pretty quickly. I use it on a lot of items mainly to clean them, but never as a long tern lubricant. No experience with cameras though. But i'm just saying WD-40 is a pretty good cleaner.
Bill

[Captain_joe6]

I think the worry there would be wether or not WD-40 is safe for use on the plastic components of Sinar movements. Some chemicals will weaken the plastics. A previous thread from way back suggested Mobil 28 aircraft grease (I'm betting Mobil SHC100 would work just as well or better), as it is safe for plastics as well as metals. The caveat, as mentioned above, is that no new lubricant will work properly unless all of the old lubricant is removed. On a camera like the X/P2, this is one hell of a task and properly requires disassembly of some major components.

Unfortunately, as I've described in another recent thread, Bron will only be servicing Sinar's until Dec. 31, 2012, so the best bet for you is to find a competent third party to do the work and make it right before something strips or breaks and you've got to make a call to Switzerland.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Capt'n, Good thought, most everything I clean with WD-40 is all metal, and it works pretty good, both as a solvent and the red tube on the nozzle delivers mechanical pressure washing.
Bill

[Captain_joe6]

Thats just the thing, though: solvents and plastics have a shaky relationship, at best, and a lot of the gearing inside your Sinar is plastic. Sinar's idea was that there should be no metal-on-metal contact within the geared systems of the camera. 99% of the time, there is a metal gear and a plastic track, or visa versa. When metals do come into close contact with the camera, there are nylon bushings and bearing surfaces that buffer the movement so that very little wear is encountered.

Like any other precisely-engineered system, it will give a long life of dedicated use, provided it is treated as what it is: a finely-engineered system that requires proper maintenance.

[rdenney]

Sinar service manuals for post-Norma Sinar models are available here:

http://www.image2output-support.com/sinar/

The lubrication materials are shown in the Introduction document. Some symbols in the manuals refer to Molykote, which is a moly-disulfide-fortified lubricating paste for extreme pressure situations. Any good synthetic moly grease should work, I would think. Application is important--most of the points lubricated with Molykote use a brush. "LOSOID" refers to light machine oil, as I recall, applied in a small drop--I would use an applicator intended for clocks to avoid too much lubricant. A star symbol refers to plain white Vaseline.

The service manuals don't tell you how to fix things, really, they just show how things go together and provide critical measurements. They are not tutorial and expect quite a lot of base skills. But they are quite specific about what should be lubricated and what should not.

Never use WD-40 on anything.

Rick "suggesting that readily understanding the service manual is an entrance exam, the failure of which should result in sending it off for a CLA" Denney