Do I need a lens shade?

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

I'm just getting set up, I bought a Sinar F2 and I look on ebay and I see nice looking lens shades, The theory is good, I read about lens flare, but is the old hat trick (there are two) good enough?
Thanks,
Bill

[jk0592]

What do you mean by
there are two ?

[C. D. Keth]

Lets put it this way: your lens needs to be shaded. Whether that means you buy and use a lens shade or you shade it with your hat or a darkslide is up to you.

[Kirk Gittings]

Dark slide or hat has always been good enough for me.

[Jim Jones]

Too often I've got my hand in the photo when using it to shade lenses. A small round lens hood is convenient, but less efficient than a compendium hood. Rectangular hoods that mount on the front standard instead of on the lens can be improvised from cardboard.

[C. D. Keth]

Another handy thing you can do is to carry matte black 2" paper tape with you. Once you're basically set up, wrap the tape around the front element to make a tape lens hood. You can wrap it as far out (2 or more widths out if you need to) or in as you need to achieve a full-coverage hood.

These things are also good to hold cardboard or black coroplast to flag the lens, they're sold as "multi-clips":
http://www.adorama.com/images/large/BG2880.jpg

[Brian Ellis]

A hat, hand, dark slide, whatever will keep direct light such as sunlight from striking the lens. But it won't do much on a bright, overcast day or any other situation where the light source is indirect. For that kind of situation a compendium shade works better. That's the theory anyhow. In practice I never liked messing around with a compendium shade so I quit using mine.

[Frank Petronio]

81375

Call me paranoid but if this doesn't work, nothing else will. I just leave it on all the time, adjust it for the lens and scene, takes 20 seconds.

With the F2 all you need are the two bellows clips, a hex rod, and a spare bellows (like your bag bellows or vice-versa) and you can build a nice shade on the spot.

Of course there is nothing wrong with doing it half-assed like these other guys ;-p Film is really cheap and if you get a little flare then it's arty, right?

I'm going to duck now, what is on fire?

[Scott Walker]

+1 on what Frank said. Pretty tough to beat that setup.
It's reasonably inexpensive and can be made to work on most systems.
It is adjustable to all your lenses and dead simple to use.
It is what I use for a lens shade unless I'm running out of time & light and I have to use my hat or jacket or dark slide or whatever is handy.

[Frank Petronio]

I was speaking in jest and I never used anything fancy with my folding cameras - but it is really nice to erase all doubt about shading once you commit to using a bear of a camera. I have a large case that holds the assembled camera upside down and ready to go. Other than weight and bulk, a large heavy camera is the nicest to actually shoot with (solid, rigid, nice controls). You just wouldn't want to carry it far.

With field/folders I would screw in a shallow metal shade, one of the generics from eBay AND use my body, hand, darkslide for additional strategic shading. Just getting myself between the sun and the lens makes the most difference. The shallow metal shade provides some small measure of protection should the lens drop or get set down in the dirt - it also keeps rain, dust, and fingerprints off the front of the lens. If the shade is too deep and you make front movements then you risk vignetting.

When I had Wistas a million years ago they made a flip up compendium shade that was really nice and convenient - you could pull it out as far as necessary, but flip it up out of the way for adjusting the lens. It attached to the top of the front standard. It is still bulky but pretty bullet-proof and effective. I think there is a Chinese version that will fit Tecnikas and maybe Toyo made one too.

[rdenney]

Lens flare is visible in a couple of ways. The type most digicammers are talking about are obvious internal reflections of strong light sources within or just outside the image. That's hard to fix with a lens shade, but multicoating helps (and the problem is more pronounced with some lens designs versus others). Given that it may be unavoidable, many just make it part of the composition.

Then, there's veiling flare, where light inside the camera bounces around and causes an overall fogging of the film in addition to the image-forming light. The light inside the camera either shines directly on something other than film and reflects, or it reflects off the surfaces of the film itself and then bounces around.

Two strategies for minimizing veiling flare are: prevent it, or absorb it. Absorbing it is why the inside of the camera is as non-reflective as possible. That's why the backside of quality lens boards are flocked or painted ultra-flat black, and why the inside surface of bellows is fuzzy rather than smooth and shiny like the outside.

Prevention is where shading comes in. The most efficient possible shading strategy prevents light that won't fall on the film from entering the camera in the first place. The shade, which will be out of focus if the edge is in the picture, casts a fuzzy shadow inside the camera, so it's impossible to trim off all extra-image light. But a good shade allows the photographer to minimize it as much as possible. The best strategy is to use a shade that is adjustible on all sides to just avoid being visible through the lens aperture (that's one things those clipped corners on the ground glass are useful for). Sinar makes an adjustable mask that mounts on an accessory standard in front of the front standard, with a bellows between it and a rod/clip holder (as Frank described) on the front of the front standard. Using the accessory standard makes it possible for the shade to follow the movements of the camera precisely.

Next best (and about as good as anybody else produces) is what Frank described, which is mounting a spare bellows on a hex rod using two clips. The front edge of the bellows can be extended or retracted to accommodate different focal lengths. Sinar even makes a jointed rod to allow the front of the bellows to be aimed to follow the movements of the camera, though without the same precision as using an accessory standard.

(By the way, the front standard used on the F and F1 is intended to serve as the accessory standard on P cameras. I have an old Norma-era accessory standard which is lighter and more compact for this duty, though I've never gone that far with shading.)

A bellows-type shade that can be expanded or contracted is called a compendium shade. They are extremely effective.

But it is ironic that the cameras provided with the most effective shading strategy usually have the best control of in-camera reflections. Thus, I suspect the effects of that level of shading in practice will be pretty subtle.

At the other end of the effectiveness scale, the one essential element of shading is to prevent strong light from shining directly on the front surface of the lens. (Strong means in relation to the scene and exposure.) For most outdoor photographers, that means keeping the Sun from shining on the front of the glass. If it does, it will illuminate every spec of dust, haze, and microscopic imperfection brightly, which will create the most severe sort of veiling flare. That's the kind of flare that is easy to prevent with a hat or a dark slide.

For most black and white photographers, the subtle veiling flare that remains after eliminating the flare from the Sun shining on the lens lowers contrast slightly. That's easy to correct in one's contrast control workflow, so it isn't really that important in practice. Super-effective shading strategies were developed for commercial work using color transparencies intended to be used for advertising process color, and in the days before Photoshop the slide had to be just right straight out of the camera.

So, all that long-winded context comes down to this: The best shading is the most that you will do every time without resenting it. Sinar's bellows clips and rods make it easy enough to use a compendium shade in routine practice, and easier than most any other accessory shade. It's not easier than a hat, though. A hat is much better than nothing, especially if the Sun is on the front side of the camera.

Rick "who usually uses the rod and clips, but sometimes just uses the hat" Denney

[BrianShaw]

One way or another... flare control is a good thing.

[E. von Hoegh]

I'm just getting set up, I bought a Sinar F2 and I look on ebay and I see nice looking lens shades, The theory is good, I read about lens flare, but is the old hat trick (there are two) good enough?
Thanks,
Bill

What lenses will you be using? Coated? Uncoated? If uncoated, a proper lens shade is mandatory if you want good results. If coated, a proper lens shade is neccesary, but less mandatory. I use a shade with all my cameras and lenses whether they're uncoated, single coated, or multicoated.

[Clive Gray]

You mean not everyone does do the full Sinar thing (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8030/8024258985_6f9edc5b5e_b.jpg). I'm shocked.

I tend to use the darkslide / use your body method but as Bill mentioned two ? is he perhaps asking about the differences in the two available bellows mask hoods ? click here (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/ABBANDON/bellowwsmask1.jpg) and here (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/ABBANDON/bellowsmasks2.jpg)


Bellows mask two is really usefull if you use wide angles a lot.

[erie patsellis]

Cove, I'd go so far as to say the Bellows Mask 2 is essential, especially if you use wides...

[Bill_1856]

Just one more unnecessary gizmo to interfere with the picture making process. Use left hand, if absolutely necessary.

[Kirk Gittings]

Cove, I'd go so far as to say the Bellows Mask 2 is essential, especially if you use wides...

Really? Let me see now 34 years shooting architecture professionally (read wide angle lenses) 28 of those with VCs exclusively-thousands of published images, a couple of hundred book and magazine covers and now working on my 85th LF exhibit of my personal work and..........drum roll..........I've never used anything but the dark slide, my hand or my hat.

Yep Bill, you got it right. KISS

[Frank Petronio]

And neither does Ken Rockwell! Good company!

[Kirk Gittings]

And neither does Ken Rockwell! Good company!

I wouldn't know I don't look at his site. As your the one who seems to regularly read his stuff, fellow travelers :)?

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

2 hat tricks, first I heard of was when you are using a lens without a shutter, You expose using your hat or lens cap...I may be wrong but I heard of that being called a hat trick.
2nd is when you shade the lens with your hat.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Chris, I really like the flat black 2" paper tape. Is the back side black also?
The multi-clips look very interesting, where do you get one?

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Frank, I like the idea of a generic shallow shade. I have not seen one, but I'll be on the lookout for one now.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Rick, thanks for that reply, I learned a lot reading it 2 or 3 times. I see compendium shades on ebay for about $150 that will fit my Sinar F2. It really looks like a hassle, trying to adjust the lens, what about filters to darken the sky, it would be in the way of my Cokin filters. I started this thread to learn how everyone else handles this problem. I think that I'll be using Cokin filters a lot outside and they should help with shielding stray light, esp when combined with the ole hat trick. I will try and see what happens. Like you said I can always up the contrast in the DR.
Thanks, I learned a lot from your response,
Bill

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

E. von Hoegh, all but one of my lenses are coated. I will be using something to shade it, that's for sure. Someone mentioned generic screw in metal shields, bought on ebay, that sounds promising, and I'll always have my hat/darkslide.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Clive, all I can say is WOW, someone really put some thought into that. but adjusting your lens, cocking the shutter...etc
I may end up there some day but I'd have to be forced by my results in the DR.
It was very interesting and informative though.
Bill

[rdenney]

Rick, thanks for that reply, I learned a lot reading it 2 or 3 times. I see compendium shades on ebay for about $150 that will fit my Sinar F2. It really looks like a hassle, trying to adjust the lens, what about filters to darken the sky, it would be in the way of my Cokin filters.

No, it's not that expensive. Here's a hex rod with both bellows clips for $40:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sinar-bellows-holder-with-Medium-rod-/221130417549?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item337c66658d

Bellows depend on what you have now. If you have bag bellows now, get a standard bellows. If you have a standard bellows, get a bag bellows--these are $75 on ebay.

Clip the bellows you are not using on the camera into those plastic clips, insert the hex rod into the front standard, and then position the clips as needed in front of the lens. The bellows won't touch the lens. It won't affect filters, and it won't even block access to the shutter controls. And if you have a lens with a funky (or damaged) filter ring, no problem. It will work with all your lenses. It's not a hassle at all, compared to all other options except using your hat or hand.

A shade made from pleated bellows is a compendium shade, so this is everything that at compendium shade is, using the same bellows you can use on the camera.

Kirk may be right that it makes no difference. But I'm not sure wide-angle lenses are the ultimate test of shading. I think long focal lengths are more apt to show signs of veiling flare and benefit from better shading. And even a 12" tessar has probably a 14" image circle (at least that is illuminated). A plasmat would be more. That will light up a lot of the camera's interior outside the image frame, which is one significant cause of veiling flare. A 90mm Super Angulon with a 9" image circle won't light up nearly as much.

Again, any shading strategy that is a pain in the rear will never leave your case. If a hat or hand is all your are willing to do, at least do that.

Rick "religious about lens shading particularly when using studio lights that are in front of the camera" Denney

[aporodagon]

Frank, I see you have the roller blinds on your compendium. Is that useful or just more of a pain?

[Frank Petronio]

Pretty useful, I think I found that part for $70 or so. People try to get more on eBay lately but notice that it doesn't sell at the higher prices either. I've never paid more than $50 for a Sinar bellows, or sold one for more either. Just be patient, the parts are dirt cheap.

[tgtaylor]

I've been using the dark slide for years - holding it off to the side until it casts a shadow across the lens. But recently I picked-up a mint Toyo-View compendium shade for $40. It's the older version without the built-in filter holder but works on my 2 4x5 monorails and the 8x10 monorail. While it is not necessary it's nevertheless very useful for it allows you to concentrate fully on the picture without worrying about if the dark slide is going to intrude into the picture and you can work standing at the back of the camera or off to the side at the rear.

Thomas

[Heroique]

...Is the old hat trick good enough?

I’ll use my compendium shade even if I’m certain my final image will be good enough for me (or another) without it.

To do this, I have to fight a complacent voice inside my head that says, “Why bother? Just use your hat.” That voice enjoys being no better than good enough, and he has tricky arguments to win me over.

“Ansel used his hat,” he’ll add. “Why not use yours?”

[BrianShaw]

While it [compendium] is not necessary it's nevertheless very useful for it allows you to concentrate fully on the picture without worrying about if the dark slide is going to intrude into the picture and you can work standing at the back of the camera or off to the side at the rear.

I'm a lens hood zealot -- wheter the lens is coated or not I use them. Sometimes it is a simple as a screw-in hood, or a series hood, or a compendium... but I prefer those solutions to a hat/darkslide for exactly the reason Tg said.

[E. von Hoegh]

E. von Hoegh, all but one of my lenses are coated. I will be using something to shade it, that's for sure. Someone mentioned generic screw in metal shields, bought on ebay, that sounds promising, and I'll always have my hat/darkslide.

To iterate, a proper compendium shade is the way to go with uncoated lenses. Try it once in a difficult lighting situation and you will see what I mean. Generic screw in metal shields, in the context of uncoated lenses, are better than nothing. Not much better, though.

[Mark Stahlke]

Two pages of comments and nobody has mentioned Lee's compendium shades. Until now. That's what I use. They're convenient and effective.

[E. von Hoegh]

Two pages of comments and nobody has mentioned Lee's compendium shades. Until now. That's what I use. They're convenient and effective.

I made mine for 8x10 out of the bellows from a junk enlarger, some 3/16" round stock, some assorted widgets and gizmos, and some 1/16" sheet aluminium for the masks.

[BrianShaw]

I'll bet they (Lee's) are generally considered by the prior posts in the category of "proper compendium"!

[E. von Hoegh]

I'll bet they (Lee's) are generally considered by the prior posts in the category of "proper compendium"!

You'd win.

[rdenney]

I'll bet they (Lee's) are generally considered by the prior posts in the category of "proper compendium"!

No doubt. And a good choice for anyone who does not own a Sinar. But having the Sinar makes a less costly choice available, one that does not require adapters to lenses.

Rick "who probably would have mentioned it by name to a non-Sinar owner" Denney

[BrianShaw]

Why Rick... you've now inspired me to sell my Lee compendiyum and adapters, and buy a Sinar. :)

[rdenney]

Why Rick... you've now inspired me to sell my Lee compendiyum and adapters, and buy a Sinar. :)

Heh.

I considered the Lee for use with my Cambo SC, but ran across a broken but repairable Cambo compendium and spent a lot less. It sure is bulky, though--just like everything about that camera. The Lee is a nice setup.

The Sinar completely removes the need to screw things into the lens, with the swing-away filter Polarizer (into which I screwed a removable B+W polarizer) that slides onto the same rod as the shade. But it requires buying 105mm filters.

Rick "still building that collection" Denney

[Ken Lee]

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/sinarsetup.jpg
Sinar shutter, Sinar compendium shade (which is just another bellows sitting on that hex-rod which Rick mentioned).

In the field we sometimes have to use a hand or the dark slide - especially when working fast under quickly changing lighting conditions. In bright sun, the light source is specular and it's easy to see when the sun has been blocked from reaching the lens.

When there's less of a hurry - while not absolutely required - a simple lens shade can make life easy. It's especially helpful when the light source is large (like a nearby window) and we're shooting into the light, where a simple card or hand can't block it.

With a Sinar shutter and a DB-mounted lens, you don't have to get to the lens to adjust f/stop, open or close it, or trip the shutter: the lens shade doesn't interfere with anything.

[Frank Petronio]

I just keep the Sinar shade adjust to be just past the rim of the front of the lens, that gives me plenty of room unless it's a tiny lens like a 135 Symmar/Copal 0, in which case you just slide the shade forward a momentarily.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

I keep looking at the compendium shades on ebay, and I have a couple of questions. How do you adjust the lens/shutter, what about the cable release. How do you handle those?
Since it is a Sinar F2 and has the ability to attach the shade to the front standard is a compendium shade (and a hat) all I'd need? One solution for all situations? The ones on ebay are made in China and the pictures look good. Cost is around $150. Are these worth the price? I like the ease and compactness of this shade.
Bill

[BrianShaw]

I keep looking at the compendium shades on ebay, and I have a couple of questions. How do you adjust the lens/shutter, what about the cable release. How do you handle those?

Post 41.

When using a Cambo compendium (not the "flip-up style) on a Cambo camera I do the same. Sometimes, though, it is just as easy to do all of hte adjustment without the compendium and then put it in place. For Lee-style that attaches to front o'lens this is not an issue.

[Kirk Gittings]

For all of you who worry about getting your hand/dark slide/hat in the picture. I don't have a problem with this. I could count on one hand how many images that I've infringed on amongst the tens of thousands of 4x5 images I have made.......its pretty easy to "read" how close to put it if you are shooting towards a light source as you can see in the front glass a reflection of the offending light source-just move your shade in until it just covers the reflection. I don't know if that makes any sense-try it. Its simple and works.

Because I keep things simple, in rapidly changing light, I can be set up and shooting in under two minutes (I practice this and as long as movements beyond rise and fall are not needed I can do it-add tilt and I need another minute-rarely use anything else, add a filter-add another 30 seconds). I like to shoot on the edge of storms where light changes rapidly and being able to shoot very rapidly often makes the difference between a mediocre image and one where every works, light, shadow, clouds etc.

[BrianShaw]

Totally agree that when speed is an issue, a compendium will slow things down.

[Heroique]

It’s impossible for me to count the times I’ve patiently attached a compendium and got the desired light I would have missed had I been in a great hurry. ;)

[E. von Hoegh]

Totally agree that when speed is an issue, a compendium will slow things down.

But not bring them to a halt.

[Frank Petronio]

81462

Argh!

[Ken Lee]

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/videographer.jpghttp://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/videocamera.jpg

We often see cinema and video cameras with lens shades.

When money is being spent every second, are people more careful ?

[Mark Barendt]

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/videographer.jpghttp://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/videocamera.jpg

We often see cinema and video cameras with lens shades.

When money is being spent every second, are people more careful ?

Yes

[Mark Stahlke]

The #1 reason to use a lens shade: It looks cool, people will think you're a pro. :D

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Does anyone have any experience with the $150 Chinese made Sinar compendium shades on ebay??? Are they worth the price? Do they work/well?
Thanks, Bill

[Frank Petronio]

No most of us use Sinar rods and clips, much cheaper!

[vinny]

Yes
they used to be. I was on a shoot today with the new Red camera which the production company has purchased. Every time the CF card was filled up, we took a 10 minute break because they needed time to download and only had one card! I couldn't believe it. Then came the 4 person conversation about the lens flare they couldn't seem to eliminate. Put a $30 filter on a $1800 lens with a bright white wall lit by the sun in frame and guess what? They seemed to think a matt box would help but didn't have one. I briefly attempted to tell them otherwise but left the set to get some food instead. Personally, I use a lee shade whenever I have time to install it. I HAVE photographed my french flag too many times when I thought it was out of frame.

[rdenney]

Does anyone have any experience with the $150 Chinese made Sinar compendium shades on ebay??? Are they worth the price? Do they work/well?
Thanks, Bill

You know, I tried to find what you were talking about on ebay, and could not. Why don't you provide a link so that we don't have to redo your detective work while providing all this free assistance? Sinar did not make anything in China. I didn't find anything in the search on "compendium" that would be appropriate on a large-format camera.

But if you are still considering anything other than the Sinar rod, clips, and bellows that I provided links to many posts back, I don't know what else you expect those of us who own Sinar cameras to tell you.

Rick "letting a little Frommism rub off on him" Denney

[Frank Petronio]

Just buy and test it for us, we await the report!

[Mark Barendt]

they used to be. I was on a shoot today with the new Red camera which the production company has purchased. Every time the CF card was filled up, we took a 10 minute break because they needed time to download and only had one card! I couldn't believe it. Then came the 4 person conversation about the lens flare they couldn't seem to eliminate. Put a $30 filter on a $1800 lens with a bright white wall lit by the sun in frame and guess what? They seemed to think a matt box would help but didn't have one. I briefly attempted to tell them otherwise but left the set to get some food instead. Personally, I use a lee shade whenever I have time to install it. I HAVE photographed my french flag too many times when I thought it was out of frame.

CF cards with a Red? I remember the Red cameras being designed to go strait to hard drive.

I haven't really been keeping up with Red or CF cards, but that and the lack of a hood, says volumes about your "buddies".

[E. von Hoegh]

Does anyone have any experience with the $150 Chinese made Sinar compendium shades on ebay??? Are they worth the price? Do they work/well?
Thanks, Bill

My experience with Chinese made stuff has been a crapshoot. I'm not a gambler, so I don't buy anything made in China if I can possibly avoid it. If I must buy a Chinese product, I make certain that I can inspect it before I hand over my money. YEMV.

[E. von Hoegh]

The #1 reason to use a lens shade: It looks cool, people will think you're a pro. :D

No. The group of people who buy into the concept of "cool" will assume you're a pro, there are no thought processes involved.

[Kimberly Anderson]

Here's what I've got.

81555

I also do have a Lee wide-angle compendium shade, but the only lens ring I have for it fits my 355 g-claron. So...until I can get rings to fit all my lenses, this'll have to do.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Denney, There are 2 of them. Pictures look nice, can't say more than that. That is why I'm asking the question,
Not savy enough to post links, but the item #'s are:
270818949065 $169
280732737609 $139
I do not see how you would run the cable release, any suggestions, and opinions on these two "Made in China" shades.
Thanks, Bill

[rdenney]

Okay, I see that now. Here's the link to the first one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270818949065?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D270818949065%26_rdc%3D1

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Professional-Collapsible-Zoom-Lens-Hood-Shade-For-Sinar-F-F2-4x5-8x10-Camera-/00/s/MzI1WDQwMA==/$(KGrHqIOKokE5lKJ2jf9BOcj(gKIGw~~60_12.JPG
(Image from the ad, so it will go away when the ad does.)

I've never seen one of these before, but it is clearly intended to be used on a Sinar. This is an aftermarket product that simulates what we've been talking about using genuine Sinar parts. It looks as though it would work fine.

You can slide the rear of the shade as easily as the front. Just slide it forward on that rod far enough to provide access to the sides of the shutter. That will provide room for your fingers and for the cable release.

Now, take that same concept, and instead of buying that off-brand purpose-built product, get the rod, clips and standard bellows separately. The clips attach to the corner of the standard bellows, and then slide over the rod, same as you see. The difference is that it's cheaper and the bellows are standard bellows that can be used on the camera.

Follow this link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINAR-BELLOWS-4X5-F-F1-F2-P-P2-View-Cameras-/130777227829?_trksid=p4340.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D2532387122228407982%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D221130417549%26

It shows the standard Sinar setup, using real Sinar parts, which we are recommending. That bellows is the same as what's already on your camera, so it can be a spare. You can also use the bag bellows as a shade, in case you need one of those in your kit anyway.

Rick "wishing he had a handy photo from the side, showing access to the shutter" Denney

[Frank Petronio]

The nice thing about the Sinar-built shade contraption is that you have a spare bellows just in case you need it as well. Or use some old pinholed trashed bellows for $10 or free. Why give any more money to China for copying Western designs using slave labor?

[BrianShaw]

It really looks pretty nice. But I really agree with Frank. Not just because of the ethics issue, but the way they seem to have labeled it "Sinar" when it is really "for Sinar".

[CP Goerz]

I shoot a lot of backlit desert/mountain scenes and a lens shade is a must have item. I like the Lindahl rig as you can use it for WA or screw in a couple of posts and add an extension for long glass, they're on ebay all the time and cost about $15-20 used.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Rick,
I just put in a bid for $80, think that will get'er done?
Thanks for your help, I appreciate the fact that I'll have a spare bellows.
Bill

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

How do you handle the cable release, without it showing up in the picture?

[rdenney]

How do you handle the cable release, without it showing up in the picture?

The cable release screws into the side of the shutter. The side of the shutter is not blocked by the bellows. The back edge of the bellows is lined up with the front edge of the lens, and the front edge of the bellows is stretched out as far as possible without becoming part of the photograph. You have full access to the sides of the shutter, and the cable release does not go through the bellows at all.

Rick "who is apparently going to have to set up the camera and take a picture of it" Denney

[rdenney]

Rick,
I just put in a bid for $80, think that will get'er done?

Maybe. But you just announced that to a large percentage of your potential bidding competitors.

There's another auction with the clips and rod for $40 Buy It Now, and then you can scrounge someone's pinholed bellows for cheap, as Frank suggested. This stuff is almost always available on Ebay at any given moment.

Rick "not a competitor...this time" Denney

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Rick,
I assumed that the shade covered the entire lens. The way you describe it does not sound bad at all.
Is it possible to use Cokin Filters with it?
And the members of this Forum are honorable photographers and they would never use that kind of information to out bid me. Right?
Bill

[rdenney]

There is no honor among thieves.

No, this arrangement has no mechanism for holding Cokin filters. But a whole Cokin filter frame will fit inside it, attached to the lens as usual.

Rick "good luck" Denney

[Frank Petronio]

If you have a longer rod, like 150mm-6", you can place the shade wherever you like, including snugging it up against whatever Cokin contraption you have. You can get further into the system as Sinar made extensive collections of higher-than-Cokin-quality filters in a variety of sizes, along with special holders, mirrors, all kinds of gadgets that are professional quality, not aimed at 35mm users. All this stuff is bargain-priced now that it is obsolete ;-p

If you are short a rod, a common pencil is the same cross-section and can be used in a pinch.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Glad to hear that Cokin filters will fit inside, I am still bidding, silently this time... hope I "win",
I'm also looking into that double clamp for $40
I'd think you should be able to come up with some common hex stock and cut it to any length you want. That pencil trick sounds like a nice bit of info just in case.
Thanks again, Bill

[C. D. Keth]

they used to be. I was on a shoot today with the new Red camera which the production company has purchased. Every time the CF card was filled up, we took a 10 minute break because they needed time to download and only had one card! I couldn't believe it. Then came the 4 person conversation about the lens flare they couldn't seem to eliminate. Put a $30 filter on a $1800 lens with a bright white wall lit by the sun in frame and guess what? They seemed to think a matt box would help but didn't have one. I briefly attempted to tell them otherwise but left the set to get some food instead. Personally, I use a lee shade whenever I have time to install it. I HAVE photographed my french flag too many times when I thought it was out of frame.

Sounds like the camera dept on that job was dead amateur. They should call me and my people. :) I'm on a feature with 45 year old anamorphic lenses that are extremely easy to flare and we've yet to find a flare situation we can't fix. It does take constant vigilance, but the solutions are never difficult and are usually some combination of a proper arri mattebox with full eyebrow, siders, and hard mattes, matte black paper tape, and lensers somewhere other than at the camera. I'm usually tilting filters so they don't cause multiple reflections, as well.

Bill, the multi-clips are carried by B&H, adorama, and probably anywhere else that has manfrotto products. The matte black paper tape is a specialty product for photo and film industry use. It's fairly expensive for a roll but it's dead matte black on the outside and nearly as nonreflective on the sticky side, even though the adhesive lends it a greyer color than deep black.

[Captain_joe6]

Bill,

I'm going to put my two cents in and agree with everyone else about the Sinar-made hexagonal rods, clips, and use of spare bellows as a lens shade. Figure it this way: Sinar always designed everything holistically, everything would fit (just about) everything else, and everything was designed to work very, very well when the demands were right. In the case of a lens shade for your F2, you've got one of the pinnacles of large format camera designs. Why would you ever try to make something work that wasn't designed for it, when there is something out there that was designed for it? It'd be like buying a Mercedes and then throwing a set of plastic hub caps on it.

I've got the long rod, and clips, and a spare 4x5 regular bellows attached to the front of my P2, and the thing is a breeze. Basically, you set it up so that there's about a half inch between the rearmost shade bellows frame and the front of the front camera standard, to allow for your cable release to pass through. Then you adjust the front so that its effectively shading your lens. Now, when it comes time to adjust the shutter speed and aperture of your lens, just unlock the hex rod from the front standard and the whole assemble remains static and comes right off. Make your shutter adjustments, put the shade back on, and fire away.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Everyone, Thank you very much, in 35mm I always use a lens shade, ALWAYS! I have been bidding on e-bay and will continue until I have a lens shade made out of Sinar parts.

[Captain_joe6]

KEH.com might also be a place to look.

[Kimberly Anderson]

I find your lack of lens shade disturbing.

81635

If you don't have one, go make one. Please don't let it keep you from shooting. This was from this morning. Lovely sunrise out in the sticks of Utah.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Mike, I've go a double clip coming from ebay thanks to the folks on this Forum.
Thanks so much, Utah is beautiful.
Bill

[Richard Rau]

Another solution, although not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, is to outfit your your front standard with a Sunsetter retractable awning over the lens. The benefits are obvious, it keeps your lens nice and shaded while also keeping it 10 to 20 degrees cooler in the hot sun! Plus it comes in a variety of attractive colors!

81913

[Heroique]

…a Sunsetter retractable awning over the lens…

81913

Richard, that retractable awning makes your camera look like my local pizza parlor!

[Kimberly Anderson]

Another solution, although not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, is to outfit your your front standard with a Sunsetter retractable awning over the lens. The benefits are obvious, it keeps your lens nice and shaded while also keeping it 10 to 20 degrees cooler in the hot sun! Plus it comes in a variety of attractive colors!

81913

I love it!

[Mark Barendt]

I love it!

+1

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Can you shoot in the rain using that?
Really Cool!

[Richard Rau]

Another solution, although not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, is to outfit your your front standard with a Sunsetter retractable awning over the lens. The benefits are obvious, it keeps your lens nice and shaded while also keeping it 10 to 20 degrees cooler in the hot sun! Plus it comes in a variety of attractive colors!

81913


My apologies to all V8 users for using such a fine camera for a little humor. Perhaps I should have PS it on to the front of a Norma. Personally, I actually use the 8x10 dark slide with my V8 as a ready made lens shade and it's usually worked very well for me, although I agree a compendium hood would be optimum.

[Frank Petronio]

Excellent deception, I was fooled into almost suggesting that it be painted matte black on the inside ;-p

[Michael Jones]

Go about half way down the page (probably take most of the day given what is there...) and read J B Harlin's article on shades:

http://jbhphoto.com/articles/article.htm

Mike