Fred Picker's antistatic brush

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

I just read Fred Picker's book and in it he talks about Kodak Antistatic Brush. Is it still available? Is it the right way to go? How does everyone today deal with dust on their negatives?
Thanks,
Bill

[Sevo]

That huge, heavy grid power ionizer brush? IIRC it hasn't been made for more than 25 years. But several other makers had similar, often more elegant devices - mostly for integration in cine systems, endless processors/printers and minilabs, but there also are some for standalone enlarger/lab use. A currently available US made one would be http://kinetronics.com/store/KSE_250.html

[Brian Ellis]

If you do a title-only search here using the single word "dust" you'll get more information about dealing with dust on film than you'd ever want.

I bought an anti-static brush from Zone VI Studios (Fred Picker's company) that looked like an ordinary flat brush about 3 inches wide but supposedly had some anti-static properties. I don't know if that's the one he's talking about in his book or not. FWIW, I don't know if the brush really did anything special or not but it was a nice soft brush that didn't scratch film. I must have had it for 15 years.

[Peter De Smidt]

They were also sold under the Kodak brand. The original manufacturer is Chapman in Portland, Maine. The model was either SP-1 or 5P-1. I can't tell which.

[Jody_S]

Try Staticmaster (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_photo?_encoding=UTF8&field-brandtextbin=Static%20Master&node=172282)(polonium).

[Curt]

I have new old stock Kodak unit, it doesn't work. Can they be repaired? Maybe by the Kodak Inkjet division?

It's a transformer with an electrostatic tip connected to a brush.

[Peter De Smidt]

Call Chapman, the original manufacturer. See: http://www.kellysearch.com/us/portland/us-company-901001837.html

[Curt]

Thank you, I will, it's in new shape so it's a shame not to be using it. I think the static master refills are no longer.

[Mark Sampson]

The Kodak-branded ones I used when I worked at Kodak were made by "The Portland Co." which is likely the Chapman mentioned above. They were probably made in the 1950s-60s and have been discontinued by Kodak for decades. (Ha ha to the poster who thinks Kodak wants to repair anything any more.) There were two kinds- a large one with two fixed vertical brushes that could clean an 8x10 neg, and the smaller one (later sold by Picker/ZVI) with the antistatic element attached to a 3" camel-hair brush. I have one of those- it's true that you can't tell if it's working or not, but mine does, as I have many years of relatively dust-free negatives since I started using it when loading holders.

[joselsgil]

I have used Staticmaster brushes for dust control. They have a shelf life as they are made with polonium. My small 1" brush expired, or lost it's mojo back in September of '88. These little brushes were sold in 1" and 2" widths. They were manufactured by Nuclear Products Co. in El Monte, California. Funny thing is, El Monte California has major groundwater contamination. :confused:

Bill, you can also try Ilford's Antistaticum cloth that can help keep dust off your negatives.

Freestyle sells Ilford Antistaticum cloth, as well as, Kinetronics Static Wisk brushes.

[Curt]

There is Zerostat if it's available, I haven't checked lately.

[DKirk]

They are UK based, but have a look at http://www.processuk.net/ANTISTATIC_BRUSHES/cat740598_660003.aspx atleast it will give you a full product name to google for a supplier that's probably more convenient.

[Michael Jones]

The original manufacturer is Chapman in Portland, Maine.

Bingo. This is the unit Fred sold. They still show up on eBay under Kodak, Chapman & Zone Vi labels. Mine still works after 20 years.

Mike

[Mankai]

I have one from zone IV , it works great on bth plexiglas and film.

[Drew Wiley]

There are all kinds of these things still made. Just check with any cleanroom supply house.

[William Whitaker]

How does everyone today deal with dust on their negatives?

Humidity control and grounding. If you're using an enlarger or a metal vacuum frame, it should be grounded. Kind of hard to ground a wooden printing frame, but you get the idea. Try to eliminate electrical potentials wherever you can. Overall you need to create an environment that is not conducive to dust. And that means no carpet, drapes, hanging clothes or anything else which will produce dust.

The Kodak/Zone VI static brush is good to have (I have a couple myself), but it's not a magic bullet. They show up on Ebay from time to time.

[Kevin Crisp]

"...or anything else that produces dust..."

The big producer in many darkrooms it the towels you use to dry off your hands, trays, etc. Even when fairly wet just handling them puts those long fibers in the air.

I struggled with dust on negatives for a long time, and got many helpful suggestions here. Then I bought a large Honeywell HEPA air filter unit. I blacked out the red lights that indicate it is on and at what speed.

Before I load the holders I run it for a few hours in the darkroom. After the film is in the slots, I pull the slide back almost all the way to fully expose the sheet, then turn it over and let the output of the unit (which goes up at about a 10 degree angle) blast the face of the film. Then I slide in the the darkslide, flip it over and do the same thing to the other sheet.

I don't think I've had a speck of dust in the three years since I've started doing this, it has ended the problem.

[Alan Curtis]

There is a Zone VI static brush on ebay now. I think it is up for about $150, it's been on a couple of times originally for $175. I think Fred was selling these things for over $300. This is one of the few Zone VI items I didn't buy

[Kevin Crisp]

Be careful it has the cord and brush, one of them didn't on ebay recently.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Looks like there are a lot of items old and new to handle dust on the negatives. I'll have to research to see what is available.
Kevin I really do like the idea of a HEPA filter and blasting the film after you put it in the holder. Sounds like a really good idea. Prevention is a good thing!

[Drew Wiley]

I use a triple-filtered air line coming from an oilless compressor. I do general cleaning outside the cleanroom. But then once film is involved I move inside. I blow the holder or film or whatever toward a big industrial antistatic air cleaner. An antistatic blowgun is also
on hand, though I rarely use it unless the humidity is quite low (pretty uncommon in my
climate). I wear a 100% dacron cleanroom smock (long fibers with no lint), and sponge down the Formica countertop so it will be dry just before use. When I need to inspect what I am cleaning, I have a halogen machinist's inspection gooseneck light there too.
Might sound nitpicky to some of you, but that damn smock is one of the smartest investments I have ever made, and only cost $30. I also use either long-fiber chamois cloths or true cleanroom sponges. Just a little extra research can make a huge difference
in keeping dust at bay.

[sergiob]

Buy a fan shaped nylon brush in an art store. Trim it if necessary. Clean it to surgical standards. Then blow air thru the bristles with energy and they will become electrostatically charged. Brush the area to be cleaned in one soft delicate sweep. There you have a one dollar low tech device that does the job and does it well. I have used this method for years on DSLR sensors with great success.

[Gary L. Quay]

I clean my film holders with compressed air before loading. Then I load the all of the film holders, and set the into a pile. After that, I go through the holders again, wiping the film with an anti-static cloth, followed by a blast of compressed air through a fine nozzle. Just before I load the holder into the camera, I swipe it with a soft bristled brush, and (don't laugh) lick the dark slide along where it goes through the top of the holder. That little bit of moisture will trap a lot of dust as you pull the slide out.

--Gary

[Drew Wiley]

I didn't know darkslides came in flavors.

[healyzh]

There is Zerostat if it's available, I haven't checked lately.

How well do these work for negatives? I have one for my LP's.

[John Bowen]

I've had my Zone VI static brush (manufactured by Chapman) for about 7 years. Dust has been non-existant since purchasing and religiously using it on my film holders. The brush works as Fred said and if for some reason mine stopped functioning, I would look to replace it with an identical unit.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

John, there is one on ebay, but it does not have the brush.
Bill

[Larry H-L]

Years ago in a newspaper darkroom we had "static spark guns." You pulled a trigger and a small spark was generated at the tip of the gun, much like the spark used to ignite modern gas stoves.

I think they were originally sold as a device to zap dust from vinyl LP records.

Anyone know if such a thing is still made?

[rich815]

Years ago in a newspaper darkroom we had "static spark guns." You pulled a trigger and a small spark was generated at the tip of the gun, much like the spark used to ignite modern gas stoves.

I think they were originally sold as a device to zap dust from vinyl LP records.

Anyone know if such a thing is still made?

Ah, that brings me back. And dates me. One of these:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/19/76051_thumb_48c375a818b28d46423d0bb254751bc7.jpg

Not sure if they are still made or not...

[bobwysiwyg]

Looks as though they are.

http://www.amazon.com/Milty-anti-static-gun-MILTY-ANTI-STATIC/dp/B0033SHDSS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349985492&sr=8-1&keywords=zerostat

[Drew Wiley]

There again, any serious industrial or cleanroom supply will carry a useful selection of anti-static gear. All the brushes and whatever ever sold for film use are pretty insignificant
compared to the need for such things in electronics and computer chip mfg. In other words, this kind of equipmt is readily available today. One of the problems with typical household and shop circulating air cleaners (and cheap darkroom ones) is that they actually charge the air with static. But there are all kinds of ways to tame this if someone
does a little homework.

[Roger Cole]

"...or anything else that produces dust..."

The big producer in many darkrooms it the towels you use to dry off your hands, trays, etc. Even when fairly wet just handling them puts those long fibers in the air.

I struggled with dust on negatives for a long time, and got many helpful suggestions here. Then I bought a large Honeywell HEPA air filter unit. I blacked out the red lights that indicate it is on and at what speed.

Before I load the holders I run it for a few hours in the darkroom. After the film is in the slots, I pull the slide back almost all the way to fully expose the sheet, then turn it over and let the output of the unit (which goes up at about a 10 degree angle) blast the face of the film. Then I slide in the the darkslide, flip it over and do the same thing to the other sheet.

I don't think I've had a speck of dust in the three years since I've started doing this, it has ended the problem.


Looks like there are a lot of items old and new to handle dust on the negatives. I'll have to research to see what is available.
Kevin I really do like the idea of a HEPA filter and blasting the film after you put it in the holder. Sounds like a really good idea. Prevention is a good thing!

I have a Honeywell HEPA filter, but the motor has started making horrendous noise (though it still seems to work) and I've not been using it much lately. Kevin, can you share which model you use? I usually run it for an hour or so before loading, but it never before occurred to me to set it up on the table (it lives on the floor under it now) and have it blast the film with its output before closing the dark slide. I have enough allergies that it would be good to have a new one anyway, and I was just talking a couple of days ago to my fixit buddy who is going to do the basement build out, eventually including the darkroom and plumbing, about getting started.

After mentioning on here that I seldom had dust and thus tempting fate, I've had every single negative from the last two batches ruined by it. :( The only things I am doing differently are loading in my "not as clean as the old one but I but do what I can darkroom" and adding blasting the film after loading with canned air. It would be odd for that to make it worse, but if the darkroom is that bad I also find it odd that I have less problems with dust on my negatives once printing than I did in the old darkroom. That may be down to an Ilford Antistaticum I've been using, though. I've only used it to clean negatives before printing, but I've heard a couple of people suggest if for cleaning holders so I'll try that.

Come to think of it, I was using a roller type cleaning device I got years ago from the old F Stops Here store (sold mainly for cleaning x-ray holders and such) and recently stopped in favor of instead brushing the holders with a Kinetronics brush. I will go back to that - maybe using both. That would mean I use the roller cleaner, an anti-static brush, and the Antistaticum. I'll have to think about the proper order!

I love shooting with large format but between my recent dust woes, some new problems with processing unevenness which I may or may not have sorted out, and if I do then I seem to have some minor light leaks now but at least that's fixable with some more tape, I get sorely tempted to just get an RB67 and hang up the Linhof. Of course a new camera would also fix the light leaks, if in fact that's the problem. ;)

About the unevenness - I'll get into this in the thread I started on the Jobo and don't want to sidetrack this one.

[Kevin Crisp]

I have a Honeywell Model 17250, currently $109 at overstock.com. They have a similar current model out, controls look a little more modern. It has red lights near the buttons which I covered with gaffer's tape. Mine was $5 at the local junk store, non-operational, because some kid had put little Xmas bulbs into it. Bought it and took those out and I was all set since it had a new filter. The output goes up at about a 30 degree angle, which makes it handy for holding the film holders upside down to give them a blast after loading. I run it before loading film holders and whenever I am cleaning up in the darkroom, or getting ready to hang film up to dry. There are 50+ good recommendations on this site for cutting down dust, but nothing made the difference that this did once I started blowing off the film just before closing the dark side on it.

[Roger Cole]

Humm, searching "17250" returns no results at Overstock.com. There are several Honeywell air cleaners though. The old one I have is shaped like this Enviracaire but an older design with controls on a panel at the bottom:

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Honeywell-Enviracaire-Air-Purifier/3204747/product.html

EDIT: Very weird, but searching "17250" and "Honeywell 17250" and the like directly on Overstock does not find it, but searching "Honeywell 17250" on Google turns it up on Overstock as the very first link.

EDIT II: Also currently out of stock at Overstock. ;)

[Kevin Crisp]

I believe the current model is the 17000. The round ones distribute the air gently and in many different directions. Effective I am sure, but the upright ones send it all out in a forceful "whoosh" out the top, which is better for blowing off film holders.

[Roger Cole]

Makes sense. My old one is round. I see some similar ones on eBay.

[Larry H-L]

Thanks Bob!

I couldn't remember the name, but that is exactly what I was looking for.


Looks as though they are.

http://www.amazon.com/Milty-anti-static-gun-MILTY-ANTI-STATIC/dp/B0033SHDSS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349985492&sr=8-1&keywords=zerostat

[Roger Cole]

I believe the current model is the 17000. The round ones distribute the air gently and in many different directions. Effective I am sure, but the upright ones send it all out in a forceful "whoosh" out the top, which is better for blowing off film holders.

Amazon has the 17000 for $110.54 and eligible for Amazon Prime shipping, which I have.

Sorely tempted to pull the trigger on one.

[jonreid]

Speaking of dust removal. Twenty years ago I assisted a commercial photographer and would do some printing for him.
He had this dust removal system that worked a treat but I've never seen it again. It was a sticky roller slightly wider than 120. You would roll it either side of the strip of negs and the dust would stick to it. When the roller was cruddy you would roll it along a pad of sticky strips. The strips were stickier than the roller. When the strip got cruddy you'd tear it off to reveal a new fresh one. Worked a treat. Didn't appear to leave residue on the negs.

Jon

[Roger Cole]

Speaking of dust removal. Twenty years ago I assisted a commercial photographer and would do some printing for him.
He had this dust removal system that worked a treat but I've never seen it again. It was a sticky roller slightly wider than 120. You would roll it either side of the strip of negs and the dust would stick to it. When the roller was cruddy you would roll it along a pad of sticky strips. The strips were stickier than the roller. When the strip got cruddy you'd tear it off to reveal a new fresh one. Worked a treat. Didn't appear to leave residue on the negs.

Jon

One Pass Cleaning Roller. I have one bought from the old F Stops Here store, now gone. I bought it after seeing a review in View Camera, I believe. It does work well, though I had stopped using it on holders but now think I should start again. I'm not sure what I'll do for the sticky pads once I run out. I haven't checked to see if the system may still be available from other places.

[Roger Cole]

So I just checked. It looks rather like this, though this one is an updated version. The pads would no doubt work though:

http://flexopress.com/production/dcr_teknek.html

These are rather rediculously expensive though. $112 for 250 sheets of the pads, though these are much larger than the ones for my 5" roller. The shortest roller they list is 6".

[jonreid]

4kgs per 250 sheets? That's heavy stuff!

[Roger Cole]

4kgs per 250 sheets? That's heavy stuff!

Well if it's like the pad of cleaning sheets that came with my older one, there's a backing sheet that's more like thin card, or the sticky stuff is on thin card, with a top sheet you peel off. And these are bigger. So I could believe that weight.

I don't remember how many mine came with, but I have probably 2/3s or more left. It has always seemed to me you could use the cleaning sheets repeatedly until they lost some stickiness, so that's what I've done. I never used them to clean negatives or film though, just the holders and dark slides.

[jonreid]

My memory is the same with regard to re-using the sheets...

[Roger Cole]

Well I did pull the trigger on that Honeywell 17000 air cleaner over the weekend and, thanks to Amazon Prime, have it now. I set it up in the darkroom and did the recommended five minute burn in. I'm actually kind of excited about it. Actually blasting the holders with loaded film with that very clean just filtered air and then closing the slide while it's blowing on the film and holder may just be the best idea yet, combined with going back to my old holder cleaning method. If not, well I have a cat and allergies, I can use the cleaner upstairs. ;)

[Kevin Crisp]

Make sure you tape over the lights on the unit. Good luck with it.

[Roger Cole]

Will do of course. BTW the LEDs on my new 17000 are blue, not red, but should be easily covered with black tape. I can use the gorilla tape I used for patching my bellows (though I may need more - have another thread on that.) The edges will stick very tightly and not leak light.

[Roger Cole]

Well I had a misadventure resulting in lost film and culminating in a certain success over the mechanical device last night.

I had the air cleaner set up on the darkroom table. The way it was located I had to reach over it from my loading position to the air exhaust. I had carefully taped over the LEDs on the front. I had loaded both sides of two holders with TMY-2 when my increasingly dark adapted eyes detected an apparent glow. I did what I should have done to start with and stood over the air cleaner looking in the vent and...

ARRGH! The blue LED from the "High" fan position was emitting a visible blue glow from the BACK of the circuit board it was mounted on, visible out the air vent, where I couldn't see it from where I had been sitting, but where I'd been holding each holder over it thoroughly blowing the air on the film as I slide the dark slide in place. :mad:

It was dinner time anyway and I emerged from the basement darkroom grumbling. After dinner, a bit calmer, I descended into the darkroom again with tool box in tow, determined to open my brand new, void-the-warranty air cleaner and take care of that LED once and for all. First I opened the four holders and discarded four sheets of 4x5 TMY-2. :(

Getting to that LED took some major dis-assembly and removal of lots of screws, but I was pleased to find the thing was apparently made to be serviced. The offending LED was carefully twisted off it's mounting pins (as far as I could tell without further dis-assembly it isn't socketed, just soldered directly to the board) and the unit reassembled. A careful check with the lights off showed NO light now. I only removed the LED from the "high" setting since I don't figure on using medium or low for loading in the darkroom. The light emitted out the back would be far too dim to affect paper even if it is blue, unless held right over it, so I can still use it as a room air cleaner during printing on lower settings, if desired.

I will need to check the orange filter status LEDs by activating the test button in the dark, but I didn't think of that last night.

I then re-loaded those holders and the rest of my empty ones, and then I took all my already loaded holders and pulled the darkslides and blew the filtered air thoroughly over the film and back of the slide, then slid the slides back in place while holding the holders in the airstream.

I'm optimistic now. This really seems like it should make a huge difference, for a relatively small investment considering the world of LF.

Just be aware if you buy one of the newest models, you'll need to deal with that LED more than just taping it over on the front.