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View Full Version : Right price for Sinar P2?



konge
20-Sep-2012, 05:15
Hi

First off. im new here and new to the LF so please bear with me and my spelling

Im looking to buy this p2(it comes with original case aswell) but i have no idea on how much it is worth an the going prices for these.
So any advice here will be helpfull for me
Thanks :D
Second im offered a F2 aswel complete with what i need to get started with LF photoing ,in nice condition they say ,(i have no photo of that set up)so im keen on some input on the going prices on the f2 if its posible witout pictures?
Thank again :D

Thomas80793

vinny
20-Sep-2012, 05:16
Check ebay completed listings

Frank Petronio
20-Sep-2012, 05:38
As long as it is in nice, clean condition that P2 will sell for between $800 to $1500. It looks like a great kit with the Sinar tripod head and extra bellows for use making extensions and lenshades. These are incredible bargains compared to the 1990s when that set-up would cost the same as a cheap new car. Most hobby photographers want compact wooden cameras because they are pretty to look at and they think they are going backpacking, but a solid Sinar set-up on a sturdy tripod is a luxurious camera to actually use (although I would not want to backpack with one!)

A Sinar F2 is their best field model, good for location work. Sometimes they sell for under $500 on eBay but most of the time they hover around $600. Consider that you can often get an older, basic F model for under $300 that does the same thing - although I would opt for the F2 myself. Sometimes there are incredible bargains and it is not unusual to buy two, assemble the kit you want from the combined parts and off-sell the extras. It is probably cheaper to buy an entirely new camera and cherry-pick the best pieces instead of sending a $500 camera in for $300 worth of servicing ;-p

Another option is a Sinar Norma, the very well made earlier system that is mostly compatible with the F-P line. They have more metal and are solid, smart cameras that tend to be undervalued, about the same as an F2 or a bit higher.

Some Sinars have been in rental departments and busy studios so they have been used harshly and may need maintenance. Mint cameras that have been unused for years may be gummed up and stiff from inactivity. Detents that hold the standards straight and parallel can be adjusted to compensate for wear, and all wear surfaces are replaceable. So you'll want to know what the condition is and maybe budget for a trip to the Sinar service facility in your region. In the USA, http://precisioncameraworks.com is a good alternative to Sinar-Bron as Bob Watkins is a former Sinar service person.

KEH.com in the USA is a reliable vendor of used Sinars and they have an easy return policy. eBay is riskier.

All in all, buy based on cosmetics. If it doesn't look beat-up then it probably is OK. If you are new to large format please read the root level of this website as it has a lot of basic information ~ and then ask here as people are very helpful.

Cletus
20-Sep-2012, 07:00
That looks like a pretty nice P2 kit! The Sinar head is a big bonus too, it looks like. (I've become a big Sinar expert in the last couple days...) ;)

Alan Gales
20-Sep-2012, 09:35
That is a very nice looking P2 outfit!

If you find you can't or don't want to afford the P2 you might look at the earlier Sinar P.

I purchased a really nice Sinar P from Columbus Camera Works off Ebay for only $600.00 plus shipping. It came with a Schneider Symmar-S 210mm f/5.6 lens and one of those old plastic Cambo cases. The lens is also in really nice condition. The case is a little rough on the outside but functional.

Just be patient if you want deal.

Alan Gales
20-Sep-2012, 09:37
I think that should have been Columbus Camera Group. Anyway, there are deals out there if you look.

konge
21-Sep-2012, 00:37
Thanks for your replys.
The seller thinks it is worth some thing betwen 1700-2600$ ( 10K-15K NOK).Is that way off? What do you think i should offer her?
Again thanks

Cletus
21-Sep-2012, 03:11
Konge - I've found that camera owners who've spent tens of thousands on gear when it was new - it doesn't matter that it's LF gear that has largely been supplanted by digital - are downright LOTH to part with it for mere pennies on the dollar, even though that's pretty much the going rate nowadays.

With that said, $2K is probably reasonable, and in the ballpark if your P2 kit there is in very good condition. That's a pretty complete setup and you'd be hard pressed to get everything there, especially that Sinar PT head, for much less than that. If you got everything in the photo for $2-2.2K, I would say that represents right around $1000 for the camera, which is pretty much in-line with what Frank P. mentioned earlier in this thread.

I'm sure you've already done this, but do a good search through EBay and especially at the completed listing section. It helps to see what stuff actually sold for vs. what people thought they could get for it.

Cletus
21-Sep-2012, 03:15
Or maybe not. I could be off by as much as $1000, so don't pay too much attention to me. :o

Frank Petronio
21-Sep-2012, 04:53
I see a lens in there too so $2000 isn't far off. Of course even at that bargain price there are not many buyers and sometimes these linger on the market until a ready customer comes along. Ask anyone selling high-end gear, it takes patience.

Captain_joe6
21-Sep-2012, 09:45
I think $2000 is pretty spot-on considering everything that's there. Parted out you could get at least that, so I'd say go for it. A good P2 is a wonderful machine, and soon enough you'll find yourself planning to have it buried with you some day. ;)

konge
21-Sep-2012, 11:19
Thanks again
So the price is a bit off but not very much?At the lo end its ok but in the highest end its a bit to much?
The lense is a Sinaron S 210mm f:5.6.if that helps? Maybe some on can say if its a ok lens or something bether
Still ,thanks and if someone stil want to have an saying thats just good ;D

Frank Petronio
21-Sep-2012, 11:30
That is a good standard lens for 4x5, it is often used for studio work and has a large image circle for 4x5, allowing generous movements. It would be a fine first and only lens to start with.

Without knowing the details, if it seems like a legitimate seller and the equipment is in good condition, why not offer about $1200 as a serious but low offer. Then negotiate up in small increments?

Remind the seller that if they sold it on eBay the seller would loose 15% of the sale price to fees. So even if a previous sale of a similar outfit went for $2000, it was only $1700 net. Also show the seller how many overpriced Sinar P2s have been for sale for several months on eBay, they do not sell very quickly. I predict a reasonable person would settle for around $1500 to make an easy, safe transaction.

You'll need other gear of course - a case for the camera (Tenba makes a nice one); more film holders; and a sturdy tripod (like a Gitzo 5-series in metal or Carbon Fiber).

I don't know about the transaction - use good judgement, there are scammers out there.

Alan Gales
21-Sep-2012, 11:39
Like Frank says it's a great lens for a monorail (sharp with plenty of coverage) and maybe all you need.

The Sinaron S is a Sinar picked Rodenstock APO-Sironar-N.

Like I said earlier I have the Schneider Symmar which is a similar lens. The Schneider sells for about $200.00 more or less on Ebay.

konge
21-Sep-2012, 16:22
Fantastic

Tanks allot

The seller is a studio photographer an she says she bought it for in the region of 13000$ many years ago

Thomas

Alan Gales
21-Sep-2012, 19:31
Just remember that it doesn't matter what she originally paid, it's what it's worth now that matters.

It looks like a great kit. I hope you can make a deal on it.

cosmicexplosion
22-Sep-2012, 03:31
i have a sinar p and p2 and there is no difference exept black that i can tell....so you could save $1400 if you like silver.

cosmicexplosion
22-Sep-2012, 03:32
oh the knobs are a bit different!

Steven Tribe
22-Sep-2012, 05:52
Having watched and sold in the North European market (including a P2), I think the lowest price she mentioned is nearly realistic (10K NKK). Perhaps, 8K!

There is virtually no market for these cameras and the weight/value makes safe sale across borders difficult and expensive.

"Just remember that it doesn't matter what she originally paid, it's what it's worth now that matters."

I have seen original owners advertise for months/years at stupid prices whilst their professional tools of yesterday slowly loose additional value!

Don't think that the set is necessarily "comprehensive" for your purposes! I can't see a Sinar Copal shutter and some of the extras are pretty dull.

konge
24-Sep-2012, 10:17
Having watched and sold in the North European market (including a P2), I think the lowest price she mentioned is nearly realistic (10K NKK). Perhaps, 8K!

There is virtually no market for these cameras and the weight/value makes safe sale across borders difficult and expensive.

"Just remember that it doesn't matter what she originally paid, it's what it's worth now that matters."

I have seen original owners advertise for months/years at stupid prices whilst their professional tools of yesterday slowly loose additional value!

Don't think that the set is necessarily "comprehensive" for your purposes! I can't see a Sinar Copal shutter and some of the extras are pretty dull.

Hi Steven Tribe
Thanks for your insight.If i understand you right.with a little patiens ill ought to get a camera like this for 8K NOk or even less? And you think i should offer her 8K NOk?
And a newbie question (maybe a stupid one) : you say u cant see a Copal shutter , what will that meen to me?Extra cost or effort in any way?
Again thanks and feel free to fill in info.As i said , im a newbie ;D
Thomas

Frank Petronio
24-Sep-2012, 10:28
I think he means that it probably cost $8000 years ago when she bought it. That doesn't matter now because its value is far less.

Sinar made a shutter for the camera so the "DB mounted" shutterless lenses could be used. This costs about $500 used and the lenses are sometimes less expensive to buy because they do not have a shutter. The lenses pictures are already mounted in Copal shutters and will be fine for your use - most people prefer the standard Copal shutters as they are - but the Sinar shutter is nice to have as well. You can always add one later if you decide that you need it.

As for the accessories being boring, I suppose they are but they are also very useful! Perhaps he means that the accessories do not have a high resale value, and that is true, but you probably will use them regardless.

Alan Gales
24-Sep-2012, 10:57
Sinar shutters are convenient in the studio. You can set your shutter speed from behind the camera and when you load a film holder it automatically cocks the Sinar shutter. All your shutter speeds will be exactly the same no matter which lens you use since you are using only one shutter.

Another advantage is that you can use old brass shutterless lenses such as soft focus and Petzval lenses on your camera and have a shutter.

The disadvantage besides cost of the Sinar shutter is that if you have a lens mounted onto a DB board you can't use it on multiple cameras. For example I have most of my lenses mounted on Technika style boards so I can interchange them between my Wehman 8x10, my Sinar P 4x5 and my Tachihara 4x5.

Some people like Sinar shutters and some don't.

Steven Tribe
24-Sep-2012, 12:22
No Frank!
I'm saying I sold a corresponding set for 8,000 DKK a year ago.
It was listed on ebay at this price. Not so much interest and then suddenly a buyer who drove up from Hamburg to collect.

To the OP:

I think 8,000 Norsk kronar is the right price - but sellers do have cut-off points when emotions, rather than logical considerations win. This cut-of point could welll be 10,000 NKK! Less may result in anger/tears and no deal at all!
A better deal in N,SE and DK might be the very similar Cambo Master Set which sold very well in these countries and are often available at much lower prices.

I mentioned the sinar copal shutter/release, because this has an immediate separate value of around 2,000 SKK! Which not all sellers are aware of.

Frank Petronio
24-Sep-2012, 13:36
8,000.00 DKK = 1,387.33 USD

OK sorry, I thought you meant 8,000 USD. That pricing makes sense.

hiend61
26-Sep-2012, 08:47
A Sinar P2 is very heavy to carry if you need to walk more than just a few meters from your car (A 4x5 P2 with standar bellows and rail is 6 kilo), but in reward you'll get a very sturdy and precise setup. All knobs are very precise, selflocking and easy to operate. In my opinion is the Queen of LF cameras. Once you try one, you won´t to try anyother. Sinar F and F2 cameras are more portable and very nice options.

hiend61
26-Sep-2012, 09:02
I forgot to tell you that 8.000-10.000 Krona is a very fair price for the items pictured. The actual price for a new P2 is 7.000EURO!!!!