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biedron
14-Sep-2012, 10:30
Just got this Photokina blurb from Rod Klukas:

http://rodklukas.com/716/arca-swiss-news-photokina-2012/

Need to scroll down a bit. Looks like a new design.

Bob

Colin Graham
14-Sep-2012, 10:52
Interesting. The front standard base looks like a P1 monoball head.

Emmanuel BIGLER
17-Sep-2012, 00:13
In addition to Rod's web site you can download the official Arca Swiss Photokina 2012 press release (bi-lingual German/English) by clicking here (http://cjoint.com/?BIriSeB6scm)

I'll attend the photokina at the end of this week, so I'll be able to report here about what I've seen next week.

There are also so new technical cameras from Alpa and Cambo, so we'll see if they also have new things for the LF film aficionado.
I discovered in the official photokina database that Sinar is no longer listed as a supplier of LF film cameras, only MF/LF digital cameras. We'll also see what is on display there.

There is also a new Rodenstock 90 mm lens, intended for digital but very probably useable in the 6x9 format (not for 11x14", though ;) ) and scanning digital backs. This lens is announced to be able to resolve 100 cy/mm hence suitable for recording digital images with a sensor pitch of 5 microns.

SCHWARZZEIT
18-Sep-2012, 23:29
Emmanuel,
I'd love to have some more detailed info on Arca's LulF camera:
How much movement does it provide at the front and rear standards? Any geared movements?
Does this P1 type front carrier have appropriate zero detents to zero the camera properly?
Are the connections to the rail more rigid than on the M camera?
In the press image it looks like the front frame is a large board that takes Arca's 141 lens boards but also the 110 through an adapter. Does Arca also support the 171 system with this camera?
Any idea how the LulF will be priced and when it will be available?
Will the 11x14" parts be available separately as an upgrade path in the modular Arca system?

-Dominique

Michael Kadillak
21-Sep-2012, 19:02
As the owner of an 11x14 Deardorff I can only say that I would want to really look closely and the ability of the rails to stabilize this camera from lateral movement. 11x14 is a very large format requiring (more times than not) very long timed exposures that absolutely mandate zero camera movement when shooting in the real world. That said the six inch square base of my Ries A100 tripod is nothing compared to the massive thick 16x16" base on the V11 that combined provides the absolutely necessary structural base support. If I was looking at one of these I would tape a laser to the side of the rear standard and aim it against a wall 20 feet away and let a fan blow air on the side of the camera (or just let the wind outside blow on it) to investigate its stability in real life field conditions. When you are paying upwards of $10 a sheet for film and see obvious unintended subject movement on your negatives in the fix tray when you turn on the lights - this will set you off big time. Been there and done that. That is why I go through the hassle of carrying that friggin heavy Ries tripod. It is called shooters insurance and it is worth it. Great format but it is a whole new level of things to consider.

Daniel Stone
21-Sep-2012, 19:23
I'm guessing that most people who will buy this probably won't be shooting with it too much...

If I wanted to move up to 11x14 from 8x10, I'd save my pennies and get a DD. And only put it on my ries... Despite its considerable weight differential to my Gitzo CF tripod, its the most stable platform that I feel any LF shooter can use, short of a Foba studio stand. But those aren't really for field use now are they ;)?

If only Portra 400 was readily available in 11x14, wasn't a special-order only item, and didn't cost $40+/sheet after processing, I'd give more consideration to moving up. Even if only to contact print, even for color work. 8x10 is 1/2 that cost, and I'm not a rich dude, yet :p

Dan

hiend61
27-Sep-2012, 16:56
In addition to Rod's web site you can download the official Arca Swiss Photokina 2012 press release (bi-lingual German/English) by clicking here (http://cjoint.com/?BIriSeB6scm)

I'll attend the photokina at the end of this week, so I'll be able to report here about what I've seen next week.

There are also so new technical cameras from Alpa and Cambo, so we'll see if they also have new things for the LF film aficionado.
I discovered in the official photokina database that Sinar is no longer listed as a supplier of LF film cameras, only MF/LF digital cameras. We'll also see what is on display there.

There is also a new Rodenstock 90 mm lens, intended for digital but very probably useable in the 6x9 format (not for 11x14", though ;) ) and scanning digital backs. This lens is announced to be able to resolve 100 cy/mm hence suitable for recording digital images with a sensor pitch of 5 microns.

Emmanuel, can you share with us what LF news did you see at Photokina?. Is really Sinar no longer making LF cameras?.
Thanks in advance

Captain_joe6
27-Sep-2012, 17:46
I just looked into some replacement parts for my Sinar P2 and was told that as of Jan 1, 2013, Bron Imaging (Sinar's US distributor) will no longer be supplying or selling parts for Sinar LF cameras, so there may be some validity to that idea. Shame.

Frank Petronio
27-Sep-2012, 17:50
Holy Shit!

erie patsellis
27-Sep-2012, 18:24
F?!k.... So my 8x10P is essentially going to be worth crap if I can't get the parts I need to maintain it ASAP....

Frank Petronio
27-Sep-2012, 18:32
Just buy two, they're dirt cheap.

Captain_joe6
29-Sep-2012, 23:10
I'm hopping on the "order two of everything" train myself, just as soon as whoever-it-is at Bron answers my email for a parts and price list. After talking with a couple of P experts, I've got the lowdown on what needs to be stocked up on to future-proof my camera. Surprisingly little, it turns out.

Bron, it seems, is the Fuji America of hardware suppliers: no real idea whats going on, no clue whats available from the parent company, and no sense of customer interaction standards.

Anybody in Europe have any idea what's going on with Sinar proper? Are they still producing...anything?

Captain_joe6
30-Sep-2012, 10:07
Silly me, I should have been nice enough let you guys know what I'm ordering, at the suggestion of eBay member and Sinar serviceman "Apogeebee" (AKA George Brown). Mind you, this is for an 8x10 P2, but it should translate at least in part to the P, since their rise and focus systems are nearly identical, and the swing/tilt control is at least similar enough on the gear end of the assembly.

I'm going for a set of brass rise gear tracks (possibly the most common upgrade to these cameras), 2 shift gears (one for each standard), 2 focus gears (since focusing happens the most of any geared movement and I want to be prepared), and 3 levels (2 need replacement already, and the third is just a matter of time). George suggests that the swing and tilt gears rarely break, and should be fine over the long run.

Hope this helps anyone who needs parts for their P/P2. I figure ordering these parts should cover me for long enough in life that by the next time something breaks and a part isn't available, I can just buy another P2.

Frank Petronio
30-Sep-2012, 10:41
You should start a new thread for this since it is a good resource for future searchers who might not stumble down this thread about a different brand's ridiculous novelty camera....

C. D. Keth
30-Sep-2012, 10:49
F?!k.... So my 8x10P is essentially going to be worth crap if I can't get the parts I need to maintain it ASAP....

Kodak 2Ds haven't been made for a very long time and lots of them are still kicking. You'll just cannibalize another camera for parts. One donor camera would keep you in parts for a lifetime, unless you were very unlucky and broke the same thing twice.

erie patsellis
30-Sep-2012, 12:04
Chris, the Sinar P series uses some custom molded gearing which is impossible to source elsewhere. By any chance has anybody asked Edwin at input2output (I think...) if parts will still be available worldwide, or is this just a (typical) US distributor screwing?

On the 8x10 Sinars it's not uncommon to have the rear tilt gear strip, usually in studios where assistants don't pay attention to the tilt lock. so for 8x10's, at least one tilt gear should get a careful user by for a long time.

Jim Andrada
30-Sep-2012, 23:49
Just a general thought

What you really need to do to future proof yourself is to get the drawings for the parts - 3D printing can turn out some very usable parts from a good print. They might not have the longevity of the originals but if they're relatively small parts you can always have a new one "printed" when needed. Or of course the parts can be machined in the classic way.

If you can't get the parts, 3D scanning of existing parts can produce pretty usable results.

Emmanuel BIGLER
1-Oct-2012, 10:34
Emmanuel, can you share with us what LF news did you see at Photokina?. Is really Sinar no longer making LF cameras?

Hello all, and sorry to answer so late, I've just started this morning to upload my KINA snapshots to my flickr account.

I have posted my answer regarding SINAR here in the other thread dedicated to availability Sinar parts, started by Franck Petronio
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?95425-Sinar-Parts-Unavailability-F-P-F1-P2-Solutions&p=937755#post937755
Short answer : a Belgian photographer and long time SINAR customer, at the recent photokina, was explained by Sinar reps on their booth that the P2 is still deliverable, as well as the F, although the F does not appear on the catalogue.

---------------

Back to the subject, the new 11x14" Arca Swiss monorail camera .. definitely a FILM camera, no ambiguity ;)

I'll comment more on the Arca Swiss 11x14" later but I can confirm that the tilts & swings (available both on the front standard and the rear standard) are operated by a A/S P1 ballhead where one of the movements is blocked. The special "1-axis" P1 head delivers the tilt movement. The upper panoramic plate of the P1 delivers the swing movement. The mechanism has been slightly modifed in order to allow a zero-click. The connecting dovetail between the P1 and the camera standards is the Monoballfix dovetail, which is bigger (hence: stronger) than the classical F-line an M-line connecting dovetail. There are no tilts or swings on the function carriers themselves, focusing is done throught the classical rack and pinion system, no swings nor tilts like the misura's, but stronger function carriers. Rails are classical F-line / M-line.
I' still missing some details that I wish to have firmly confirmed, by placing a phone call to the Vogt family here before reporing more about this 11x14" camera.
Meanwhile Rod Klukas might give this group some additional info, but for all reps, "back from Photokina" usually more work answering customers than prior to the trade show itself ;)
I was very happy to meet Rod at the photokina, he was very busy so I did not want to take too much of his time, I hope I'll meet him in Besanšon soon !

Emmanuel BIGLER
4-Oct-2012, 06:36
More details about the new Arca Swiss "LulF" 11x14 inches monorail camera


General view, actually hardly readable ... (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8041/8050035892_80767747ec_h.jpg)

Details of the front fonction carrier (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8038/8050035808_5d6a62e52f_b.jpg)

Details of the rear fonction carrier (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8179/8050028697_30fe662924_b.jpg)


I preferred to ask directly to Arca Swiss regarding rise and fall on this camera, movements that I had not tried myself at the Photokina, for the mere reason that ... the LulF has no rise/fall control by a sliding part either in format frames (like F-line cameras) or in the function carrier (like in M-line cameras). Hence rise and fall can be achieved only indirectly through the front and rear tilt. However, lateral shifts are simple and direct, exactly like in F-line cameras, by un-locking the dovetail connecting the format frame to the function carrier.

One can argue that in a heavy LF monorail camera, taking into account the weigth of either front or rear standards, indirect rises is achieved only by lifting the weight through levers, which sounds easier and may be safier than a direct lift. It can be seen on the pictures that the column connecting the dovetail to the P1 (special - one-axis only) ballhead is shorter at rear than in front. This is simply because the front lens board has the size of a rear 8x10" lens plate of F-line cameras. Consequently we are expecting that with a horizontal rail and zero tilts, the optical axis will be horizontal and centered in the middle of the 11x14" film format.

Users who are familiar with Arca Swiss ballheads in general, and more specifically with the P1, know that the locking force is extremely powerful without need to apply a huge force with your hands. Hence we can assume that when the LulF is locked after defining tilts and indirect rise/fall, nothing can move accidentally.

In order to properly set the parallelism between the front and rear standards, A/S have added built-in clinometers (or tiltmeters) on the side of each standard. This clinometer sensor is based on a very simple "pendulum-like" needle definiting the absolute angular position with respect to the forces of gravity we usually experiment on Planet Earth.

What will probably be commented extensively is the fact that those needles, at least in the version of the LulF I've seen at the 2012 photokina, are not damped at all by anything (e.g. no oil bath like in most compasses used for outdoor activities). When I discussed of this with Philip Vogt at the Kina, eventually, cheeke-in-tongue, I had to agree that future users of the Lulf will not only get a clinometer, but in the same device, a vibrometer, for the same price ;-) When the needle stops to oscillate, you can safely take the picture ;-)