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View Full Version : Zone VI ( Wista ) vs Deardorff 4x5



Dan95
9-Sep-2012, 05:54
Am being offered a Zone VI for 550$, and a Deardroff 5x7 FS for 1100$. If I were to get the Dorff, I would need to get a few lens boards, since the ones I have are Linhof boards which fit the Zone VI.

I really want the Deardorff, been lusting for one since I was a wee little lad. The Zone VI is a stunner, rosewood. And the gold plated knobs are quite sexy.

The widest lens I use is a 90.

If you were in my shoes, which would you choose?

Bob Salomon
9-Sep-2012, 06:11
You want to shoot 57 or 45?

Fotoguy20d
9-Sep-2012, 06:18
If I were you, I'd buy the Zone VI due to the price and then get the Dorff within a couple of months since I'd still really want one. Of course, I've just institiuted a policy that for every new camera object which arrives in the house I need to sell 3. At that rate, I should be down to a reasonable amount of gear in, say, 2017. I own neither a Dorff nor a Zone VI so don't look for me to be selling one.

Dan

Dan95
9-Sep-2012, 06:31
Going with the Zone VI.

Was about to pay then noticed that Im the highest bidder of the Deardorff at 835USD. Hope someone bids on it I dont win the bugger.

Deciding factor was, I would cry less if the Wista were to fall off a cliff ( I mainly shoot waterfalls )

Greg Y
9-Sep-2012, 07:00
The Deardorff every time. They got the design/ergonomics/ right so long ago. Love my '38 Deardorff '57 & no Ebony or Canham has displaced it..

joselsgil
9-Sep-2012, 09:05
Dan,

I have a Zone VI, I would suggest you to get the Deardorff. Too many annoying problems with the Zone VI. Yeah, it looks good, but when things get loose or it's not stable, it just makes it a PIA to use sometimes.

I have never used a Deardorff, but everyone that has owned one loves them.

Jose

Bob Salomon
9-Sep-2012, 09:47
Dan,

I have a Zone VI, I would suggest you to get the Deardorff. Too many annoying problems with the Zone VI. Yeah, it looks good, but when things get loose or it's not stable, it just makes it a PIA to use sometimes.

I have never used a Deardorff, but everyone that has owned one loves them.

Jose

Zone VI made by Wita or someone else?

lenser
9-Sep-2012, 12:50
Dan,

I've got the Wista version of the Zone VI. Jose's comment about things working loose is accurate enough, but the three or four times when that has happened on mine, two or three minutes of removing the bellows to access screw heads and then tightening everything has completely cured all problems. Field servicing is a piece of cake. I've used this camera for nearly 20 years of basically trouble free hard work (at times very heavy field work shooting lots of architecture as well as nature far afield).

I know little about the Deardorf except for it's sterling reputation, but if it does not have interchangeable bellows for a bag bellows to allow for extreme movements, that would be another reason to vote for the Zone VI.

If you need to see the basic instructions for all movements that were in the early Zone VI catalog (with illustrations), I've got a copy and would be glad to email you those pages. Just PM me with your email address.

John Kasaian
9-Sep-2012, 13:33
You can shoot 5x7s with the 'dorff if you're thinking contact prints.
'Dorffs also wouldn't need bag bellows if the bellows are correct. The smaller pleats at the front standard end are very flexible if you leave the bulk of the larger pleats at the opposite end tucked inside the rear standard (at least thats how my V8 works---like there are two different designed bellows at opposite ends)
FWIW I really like the sliding lens board on 'dorffs and found it very useful for architecture. I don't know if the Zone VI has that feature or not.

RichardSperry
9-Sep-2012, 14:49
Dan,

That Deardorff you're bidding on looks pretty beat up.

Anyway, I would get the cheaper Wista, if it were me. Then look at an 8x10 Deardorff later.

C. D. Keth
9-Sep-2012, 14:53
I'd take the wista.

Graybeard
9-Sep-2012, 15:20
Am being offered a Zone VI for 550$, and a Deardroff 5x7 FS for 1100$. If I were to get the Dorff, I would need to get a few lens boards, since the ones I have are Linhof boards which fit the Zone VI.

I really want the Deardorff, been lusting for one since I was a wee little lad. The Zone VI is a stunner, rosewood. And the gold plated knobs are quite sexy.

The widest lens I use is a 90.

If you were in my shoes, which would you choose?

Barry Cochran (dba attrevida/LF Deardorff) offers a nice metal adaptor which fits Linhof boards to baby Deardorffs.

joselsgil
9-Sep-2012, 21:13
Zone VI made by Wita or someone else?

Bob,

I believe it is the Wista model, sold under the Zone VI name. Attached are two photos. One is of the camera and the other, is were it keeps getting loose. I usually remove the bellows and tighten the screw. Also, the hole that was drilled for the screw has increased in diameter over the years, causing a sloppy back. This is a problem when photographing in windy conditions. I sleeved the hole with a teflon bushing to help stabilize the back. These are just petty small problems, but they are present.


Jose

scm
9-Sep-2012, 21:30
The camera in the photo is a 4th generation Zone VI that was made in-house by Zone VI, not a 2nd generation Wista/Zone VI. The Wista is smaller, has only 12" of bellows and the bellows aren't interchangeable, among other differences.

A drop of blue Locktight (or super-glue in a pinch) on the threads just outside of the camera body will keep that bushing from coming loose again.

Dan95
9-Sep-2012, 23:32
The Deardorff sold for a little over 1300USD. A tad too much since it's a beater.

Sealed the deal for the Wista/Zone VI at 500USD+45USD shipping to Malaysia.

E. von Hoegh
10-Sep-2012, 06:39
Am being offered a Zone VI for 550$, and a Deardroff 5x7 FS for 1100$. If I were to get the Dorff, I would need to get a few lens boards, since the ones I have are Linhof boards which fit the Zone VI.

I really want the Deardorff, been lusting for one since I was a wee little lad. The Zone VI is a stunner, rosewood. And the gold plated knobs are quite sexy.

The widest lens I use is a 90.

If you were in my shoes, which would you choose?

The Deardorff. No contest. Those sexy pimped-out knobs on the Zone VI will look just like crap after you use the thing for 10 or 15 years. The short bellows will be a problem if you want to use a lens over 300mm or so.

E. von Hoegh
10-Sep-2012, 06:40
Barry Cochran (dba attrevida/LF Deardorff) offers a nice metal adaptor which fits Linhof boards to baby Deardorffs.

The 5x7/4x5 Special is not a Baby Deardorff.

Dan95
10-Sep-2012, 06:59
Aw man in a it of a predicament, problems with seller's paypal.

Bob Salomon
10-Sep-2012, 07:13
The Deardorff. No contest. Those sexy pimped-out knobs on the Zone VI will look just like crap after you use the thing for 10 or 15 years. The short bellows will be a problem if you want to use a lens over 300mm or so.

A Zone VI Wista is already older then 15 years.

E. von Hoegh
10-Sep-2012, 07:19
A Zone VI Wista is already older then 15 years.

But has it been used those years? The fact that the gold bling is still there leads me to think not.

Dan95
10-Sep-2012, 07:36
http://www.flickr.com/photos/813ndavid/7565453550/

Its a stunner alright.

Bob Salomon
10-Sep-2012, 07:49
But has it been used those years? The fact that the gold bling is still there leads me to think not.

Wista wood cameras that we have imported over the past have all had brass knobs, not brass plated, and are coated with a clear finish to resist handling. We officially started offering Wista to USA dealers on July 26, 2001. The cameras and literature that we received from the earlier distributor, Norbert Kleber, also had brass hardware and fittings. I have no idea what Fred Picker had on the Zone VI cameras that he sold that were made by Wista but brass fittings on his cameras would not surprise me.

Drew Bedo
11-Sep-2012, 06:34
I own and shoot with a Wista made Zone VI. love it! It is light and compact, has plenty of movements—and is beautiful. The one you are offered is from a more limited run with an exotic wood and gold plated hardware. The down side is that it may be a little shaky and has only 12' of bellows draw. Axis tilt is not provided. The front standard is not strong enough for hefty lenses. The Zone VI can be expertly serviced by Richard Ritter and others

The 5x7 Dearsorff is also good looking, and has an historic cache for many. It is significantly larger than the Zone VI and so it is heavier. The 5x7 format is much liked by many photographers (there are whole threads on just that). Original reducing backs are available for 4x5. Factory service is available again from the new Deardorff company.

Both are fine cameras. Both are offered at a good price. If you bought them BOTH the total would still be well below the cost of any brand new 4x5. I would do that. I'd do what I could to free up the money to buy both of them. In my case this would mean some begging (bordering on shameless groveling). I would hope that in your case it means just writing two checks.

Please let us know what you do, and post pix.

Cheers!

Drew Bedo
11-Sep-2012, 06:57
There was a definitive article on the history of Zone VI cameras by Richard Ritter in the Jan/Feb 2003 issue of View Camera Magazine. VCM has a PDF of this article available to subscribers.

I have exerpted the main points of that article below:

Zone VI Camera History

Notes from an article by Richard Ritter in View Camera Magazine, Jan-Feb 2003 issue.

Late 1970s
Tachihara: Japan ,
“Zone VI” name plate
cherry wood, chrome plated metal.
Single focusing rail, 12” bellows extension

1980
Wista 4x5 camera
“Specially Made for Zone VI” name plate
Single focusing rail, 12” bellows
Made by Wista, modified by changing to a beefier base plate.

1986 (not in catalog till ’87)
<150 units produced by 1988
S/N Range :100-250
Name plate :
“The Zone VI Classic, Made for Zone VI Studios, Newfane VT

"Made by Wisner Classic Mfg. Co., Marion Mass”".
Mahogany and polished brass.
Double focusing rail, Interchangeable bellows

1988 Wisner out of the picture

1988
“Zone VI
Made By Zone VI Studios, Newfane Vermont USA”
They jobbed-out parts and assembled them at the Studio.
+3000 units built
Mahogany wood S/N Range: 1,000 - 4,500 (with gaps)

1989
Larger knobs, GG Loding Bail
Wal nut and Cherry models (limited run) S/N in 9,00 range

1991
Gold Plated Fittings
1,800 units S/N range :3,000-4,000 (? I can’t make this fit . . .sorry)

1991
Calumet bought out Picker and marketed the same camera. Then changed to black anodized aluminum fittings.Called it the “Lightweight”


My Camera
Wista Model
Single focusing rail with 12” bellows
Wista branded Ground Glass
Mahogany with Brass fittings
Name Plate: “Zone VI Studios Inc. Newfane VT”
S/N 05345

neil poulsen
11-Sep-2012, 07:22
One way to get into Deardorff a little less expensively is to find on with no front swings. (Usually abbreviated as NFS.) I had one of these for a while.

One really nice feature of the Deardorff is that the front raises without putting pressure on the bellows. Great feature.

A couple of negatives with mine, though. It had been refinished, and the new bellows didn't pack as tightly. So, it was tough to get a 90mm lens to focus at infinity. Also, the bellows insides were more gray than black. It was my assessment that, for wide angle lenses, the bellows reflected light back onto the film. It looked like images from wide angle lenses (e.g. 121mm) with this camera suffered from flare.

Len Middleton
11-Sep-2012, 08:35
A couple of negatives with mine, though. It had been refinished, and the new bellows didn't pack as tightly. So, it was tough to get a 90mm lens to focus at infinity. Also, the bellows insides were more gray than black. It was my assessment that, for wide angle lenses, the bellows reflected light back onto the film. It looked like images from wide angle lenses (e.g. 121mm) with this camera suffered from flare.

Neil,

Was this an issue of the Deardorff camera design or original build, or of the work done by the individual who did the post-factory work and the materials they used?

Just want to be sure I fully understand the situation you are describing,

Len

E. von Hoegh
11-Sep-2012, 10:04
Neil,

Was this an issue of the Deardorff camera design or original build, or of the work done by the individual who did the post-factory work and the materials they used?

Just want to be sure I fully understand the situation you are describing,

Len

He's describing a replacement bellows which did not meet the specs of the original bellows.

Vaughn
11-Sep-2012, 10:19
1988
“Zone VI
Made By Zone VI Studios, Newfane Vermont USA”
They jobbed-out parts and assembled them at the Studio.
+3000 units built
Mahogany wood S/N Range: 1,000 - 4,500 (with gaps)

My Zone VI 8x10 was built around this time -- same verbage on he name plate. Nice camera, light baffle where the camera back attaches to the camera is minimal and occasionally leaks light if things are not all lined up correctly. But other than that, I have enjoyed it...not a light-weight.

I had a Indian knock-off of a Deardorf Special (4x5/5x7). I used it for 5x7 and the 'real thing' must be very nice to use, as the Rajah was a pretty close copy. In fact I bought a Deardorf 5x7 back for the Rajah, originally bought as a 4x5, and it fit perfectly without any modification. In my youth, it did not seem that heavy!

Drew Bedo
11-Sep-2012, 19:53
Yeah, I had a Rajah back in the early '90s. Made from an exotic hardwood, it looked great. It too was a 5x7 body, but had a 4x5 revolving back. To this day, I regret trading it for a box of lenses—which were then sold off at the Houston Camera Show.

Dan95
12-Sep-2012, 04:42
Sealed the deal for the Wista/Zone VI. It should arrive in 2 weeks.

I will post some images. Though I would need to get a gridded ground glass first, since the one coming with the camera is plain. The only other ground glass I have is the one on my Speed Graphic ( Gridded ). Dark as hell, paid 24USD for it.

Anyone can recommend a ground glass for the Wista/Zone VI ?

Dan95
12-Sep-2012, 04:43
Grids are essential as I shoot landscapes.

E. von Hoegh
12-Sep-2012, 06:54
Grids are essential as I shoot landscapes.

Actually, the way I use the cameras landscapes are one of the uses for which a non-gridded glass is convenient. I use grids for architectural subjects - it is the only reliable way to set the back of the camera, levels and such contraptions will save time and be useful to set up the camera, but the grid is the final arbiter.

You can draw a grid yourself with one of the ultrafineline markers on the smooth side, or on the ground side with a .3mm draughting pencil.

Bob Salomon
12-Sep-2012, 07:06
Actually, the way I use the cameras landscapes are one of the uses for which a non-gridded glass is convenient. I use grids for architectural subjects - it is the only reliable way to set the back of the camera, levels and such contraptions will save time and be useful to set up the camera, but the grid is the final arbiter.

Assuming the ground glass is square in the back. Some gg are small enough that they can be set in the back so that they are not square or can wiggle in the back.

E. von Hoegh
12-Sep-2012, 07:12
Assuming the ground glass is square in the back. Some gg are small enough that they can be set in the back so that they are not square or can wiggle in the back.

But not my Linhof..... (smiling smiley)

Graybeard
12-Sep-2012, 15:40
The 5x7/4x5 Special is not a Baby Deardorff.

I beg to differ.

The V8 is the adult, the V5 is the baby (in "Special guise" or otherwise).

Vaughn
12-Sep-2012, 16:11
Yeah, I had a Rajah back in the early '90s. Made from an exotic hardwood, it looked great. It too was a 5x7 body, but had a 4x5 revolving back. To this day, I regret trading it for a box of lenses—which were then sold off at the Houston Camera Show.

Mine also came with the 4x5 revolving back -- and a 210/6.8 Computar in a Copal 1 shutter. $535 as a kit, new, if I remember right. I hauled that camera hitch-hiking in NZ for three months. The 4x5 revolving back had a massive light leak where the metal attached to the wood...as I found out after returning home. The San Diego camera shop fixed it for free -- and feeling a little guilty about my 3 months of ruined negatives, the shop owner sold me a new Gitzo Studex (300) for $100.

The Rajah was eventually stolen -- and replaced with an 8x10!

PS -- I like gridded GG's, especially for landscapes -- nice for horizon lines and leaning trees.

Bob Salomon
13-Sep-2012, 02:24
But not my Linhof..... (smiling smiley)

Even your Linhof.

E. von Hoegh
13-Sep-2012, 06:41
I beg to differ.

The V8 is the adult, the V5 is the baby (in "Special guise" or otherwise).

The "Baby Deardorff" is the V4 OS made from about 1936 to about 1949. It was smaller than the V5 and few were made.

http://deardorffcameras.0catch.com/

Dan95
13-Sep-2012, 06:45
I wonder whether this would be bright enough

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yanke-4x5-Ground-Glass-Focusing-Screen-Linhof-Toyo-Horseman-Sinar-Wista-Shen-Hao-/280765993325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415ef5116d#ht_2420wt_927

E. von Hoegh
13-Sep-2012, 06:50
I wonder whether this would be bright enough

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yanke-4x5-Ground-Glass-Focusing-Screen-Linhof-Toyo-Horseman-Sinar-Wista-Shen-Hao-/280765993325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415ef5116d#ht_2420wt_927

The brightest groundglass is an adequate darkcloth and patience while your eyeballs accomodate to the light, much the same way that the sharpest lens is a sturdy tripod. (winking smiley)

mandoman7
13-Sep-2012, 08:53
The brightest groundglass is an adequate darkcloth and patience while your eyeballs accomodate to the light, much the same way that the sharpest lens is a sturdy tripod. (winking smiley)
Except that no amount of waiting will make the corners perceptible if you're shooting with a slow lens at twilight. The sensitivity of human eyes is not linear. :)

mandoman7
13-Sep-2012, 09:04
Actually, the way I use the cameras landscapes are one of the uses for which a non-gridded glass is convenient. I use grids for architectural subjects - it is the only reliable way to set the back of the camera, levels and such contraptions will save time and be useful to set up the camera, but the grid is the final arbiter.
As Bob says, the grids may not actually be installed square to the back, in which case, the levels on the camera, if you have them, should be the final arbiter.
Secondly, as you've indicated, architectural subjects are considered the ones where grids are essential where the straight vertical/horizontal lines need to be maintained. For landscapes, the horizon is often not truly horizontal, and the sense of proper orientation gets a lot more subjective. That said, I like grids for everything actually...;)

E. von Hoegh
13-Sep-2012, 09:07
Except that no amount of waiting will make the corners perceptible if you're shooting with a slow lens at twilight. The sensitivity of human eyes is not linear. :)

You're correct. My point is that many who worry about sufficiently bright GG would be better served with a proper darkcloth and some patience. I use some fairly slow lenses on plain GG and have no trouble seeing the image.

Dan95
14-Sep-2012, 00:49
The camera arrived today!

Upon fondling with the camera, I noticed that a screw came off, the one that locks the front swing. Luckily I found it in the box.

Will do a flashlight test tonight when it's darker.

Dan95
14-Sep-2012, 01:03
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk37/Danish95/CDD37507-742E-413F-95F6-175CB34F7D50-495-00000025DA730285.jpg

Dan95
14-Sep-2012, 01:03
Bellows a little bit out of shape though. Doesn't bother me..

RichardSperry
14-Sep-2012, 03:20
Beautiful looking camera.

$550, you got a good deal. Grats.

You need one of these (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?93519-New-Ries-tripod-with-custom-wood-(Sapele)&highlight=Reis+tripod) to put it on instead of a shoebox.

Dan95
14-Sep-2012, 09:50
Did the flash light test. Bellows show massive leakage at the point where it is glued on to the front standard. Is there a safe way to remove the bellows, for reattachment ?

The last time I removed the bellows of my Cambo 4x5, I ripped it apart. It was good for nothing anyway as it had many pinholes.

Dan95
14-Sep-2012, 10:26
Rectified the leak with some gaffa tape around the edges. I will need to glue it back when I have the time to do so.

Also I find it a bit odd that the locking knobs that secure the wooden thing in the rear wont go in fully.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk37/Danish95/DoodleBuddy1.png

As you can see the one above goes in 100%, and the lower one only goes in 75%.

Other than these 2, Im a happy camper.

ndavid813
15-Sep-2012, 03:13
As the seller of the above camera, I was very interested to read all the comments. The camera served me well, but sat around after I lucked into a Chamonix. It was a difficult to decide which one to sell, and I'm not sure I made the right decision. Sold it for what I paid for it, so I was happy with RichardSperry's comment - happy to pass on the same good deal that I originally got.

It is definitely a Zone VI made by Wista - has Wista name plates on it and Wista ground glass in addition to the Zone VI plate. It's a DX II (no rear shift to give it better stability)

Dan95
15-Sep-2012, 03:37
I needed a lightweight camera to bring to Mecca end of this year, and that made me go with the Wista!

Am a happy camper. Going shooting waterfalls with this baby tomorrow. Though I forgot to bring my trekking shoes.. Only have slippers!

E. von Hoegh
15-Sep-2012, 07:16
I needed a lightweight camera to bring to Mecca end of this year, and that made me go with the Wista!

Am a happy camper. Going shooting waterfalls with this baby tomorrow. Though I forgot to bring my trekking shoes.. Only have slippers!


Haj?

Dan95
15-Sep-2012, 07:36
Umrah.

My dad thinks I should bring a smaller format camera instead. Might face some predicaments with local law enforcers if I were to bring a 4x5 and a tripod. Might not even bring a Leica. Perhaps a Nikon FM would be better suited.

E. von Hoegh
15-Sep-2012, 07:42
Umrah.

My dad thinks I should bring a smaller format camera instead. Might face some predicaments with local law enforcers if I were to bring a 4x5 and a tripod. Might not even bring a Leica. Perhaps a Nikon FM would be better suited.

Go with the FM. I spent several years in Jiddah, I think your dad is correct.