2nd attempt at LF with my recently acquired Master Technika Classic

[f1point0]

I've been going through past threads and trying to learn as much as I can about the MT and am looking forward to learning and interacting more with the members here.

Well, I recently purchased a used MT that seemed to be in decent condition and now I'm not so sure. I found the thread about MT bellows light leaks and confirmed that my bellows is indeed leaking so I'm either going to have to repair it or get a new one and there appears to be two camps of thought on that. Chinese bellows from ecbuyonline and DIY vs Linhof OEM installed by Marflex.

The other possible issue that I noticed is that there is currently no rangefinder cam installed in the camera so the lever thing that usually holds the cam keeps springing to the left side. This makes it very difficult to push the lens standard all the way back into the body since the lever thing keeps getting in the way.

Some things that I'm hoping to get help with in light of all of this...

1. The bellows that is currently on my MT is incredibly thin. Is this how the original OEM Linhof bellows is supposed to be? If it is, then I'm a little concerned about buying another OEM bellows like it. How difficult is the installation a new bellows, particularly the ecbuyonline one. By the way, I noticed that the username on ebay that sells these bellows is currently ecbuyonline2008. Is this still "Rudy" or has some other person taken over and past reputation is moot. Someone mentioned the ecbuystore.net website in another thread and that currently points to a site that sells radio controlled helicopters???

2. I don't plan to use the rangefinder because I want to be able to use the 3rd door position and I prefer to focus on the ground glass, with a loupe if necessary. Without a cam in place the lens standard will not go back into the body unless I move the lever thing back to the middle and press down on it a little so that the bottom of the lens standard can clear it and slide back in. This is incredibly annoying to have to do this every time that I use the camera. Is this normal behavior for a MT without a cam installed? What are my options if I don't plan to use the rangefinder but I just want to be able to use the MT without the lever thing getting in the way?

Thanks for any and all info.

Steven

www.stevenwuphoto.com

[Dan Henderson]

Steven: I can't help with the bellows issue, fortunately I have not had a leaker yet.

Regarding, the rangefinder cam, I had an old Technika III with a rangefinder and found the same problem. Like you, I always focus on the ground glass, so I disassembled and removed as much of the rangefinder apparatus as I could. No more interference and a bit of weight saved as well.

Where we may differ is, I modified the camera to suit my needs with no regard to affecting resale value. I later bought a Tech V and sold the III for less, I suppose than I could have with the rangefinder intact. So if resale value is important to you you may want to think things through before getting your toolbox out.

[E. von Hoegh]

I can't tell you much about your MT Classic. I can tell you that I have a Linhof STIV made about 1960, with the original bellows. As of a week ago the bellows were still in excellent condition - I'd go with factory bellows for a replacement. I'd also leave the rangefinder intact.

[f1point0]

Thanks for the quick replies!

E.Von, is your original bellows material really thin? Thanks again...

[Kuzano]

Temporary fix for the bellows... not a fix, but a workaround. If your bellows is not leaking gallons of light, attach your dark cloth to the back of the camera. Get under it and focus on the Ground Glass. Then after inserting your film holder, throw the dark cloth over the top of the camera, covering the bellows, but not obscuring the lens. Presuming the camera is set for the shot, pull the slide, trip the shutter, insert the dark slide. I've done this before. let the dark cloth drape down over the sides. The door of the camera will resist light from the bottom. I used one camera for about six months and never did get a replacement for the bellows. Did not have light leaks either.

Just add throwing the dark cloth over the bellows to your check list of things to do when taking LF pictures. In my case, it became such a habit, I often do it on camera's with good bellows.:cool:

[E. von Hoegh]

Thanks for the quick replies!

E.Von, is your original bellows material really thin? Thanks again...

Very thin leather, I give it a very light wipe with pure neat's foot oil every year or so. They won't take rough handling, but they do seem good for the forseeable future.

[Bob Salomon]

Get a 150mm or longer cam and leave it in the camera even if you never use the RF. That will keep the cam follower out of the way.

[f1point0]

Very thin leather, I give it a very light wipe with pure neat's foot oil every year or so. They won't take rough handling, but they do seem good for the forseeable future.

Wow! That's leather??? Talk about thin skinned :)

[f1point0]

Thanks Kuzano for the dark cloth idea. Should hold me over until I can repair or get a new bellows.

Bob, thanks for the cam suggestion. Will I be able to use the 3rd door position with the 150mm or longer cam in place? Also, I might be sending this thing to Marflex for a CLA anyway and a new bellows. Can you PM me what the estimated cost would be to install a new bellows and general CLA. Forgive me if that last request is misdirected, but I can't seem to find current Marflex contact info and from reading all the other Technika threads, it appears that you are the man when it comes to Technika related stuff.

[Bob Salomon]

marflex@aol.com 252 652-4401. They are in NC.
No, I cannot tell you what there charges are. That is between the user and Marflex. We have nothing to do with the service charges.

By the 3rd door do you mean drop the bed all the way down? If so you remove the cam before dropping the bed.

[E. von Hoegh]

Wow! That's leather??? Talk about thin skinned :)

Well, yours may not be leather. Also I've heard that non-original replacement bellows are thicker than the originals, resulting in a shorter bellows. There isn't much room in the camera for the folded bellows. BTW, I'm as happy today with my Linhof as I was the day I brought it home - 25 years ago.

Do what BobS. suggested regarding the cam, or get a cam cut for your lens. The rangefinder is extremely accurate.

[kub]

I have a 150 cam in and it never bothers me. I also replaced the bellows with one of the chinese ones. It is thicker than oem but it doesn't interfere with anything. The replacing takes an hour you need to be comfortable with tools and delicate instruments. I don't remember who the dealer was, it was few years ago.

[Darin Boville]

I just had a bellows replaced on an MT. The part was around $275 + labor--maybe $400 total. Expensive but it's a nice bellows. Lots of extension, should last many, many years. The Chinese ones (which I have not used) are said not to extend as far, and may have material that sticks to itself a bit. But much, much cheaper.

--Darin

[f1point0]

I just had a bellows replaced on an MT. The part was around $275 + labor--maybe $400 total. Expensive but it's a nice bellows. Lots of extension, should last many, many years. The Chinese ones (which I have not used) are said not to extend as far, and may have material that sticks to itself a bit. But much, much cheaper.

--Darin

Thanks Darin. $400 seems reasonable for a camera that I plan to use for a while. Was your bellows replacement done by Marflex?

[Bob Salomon]

You should also be aware that we have found that some 3rd party bellows do not allow the camera to close completly and properly.

[E. von Hoegh]

If you get the Chinese (short) bellows, you will not only be limited in the lenses you can use, you will reduce the resale value and limit the available movements.

Based upon my experience, the original bellows will last about as long as they are taken care of (and not abused). You get what you pay for.

[mortensen]

I just changed bellows on a Tech V I recently purchased. I used the PU leather bellows from ecbuyonline. Certainly a nice product, allows for around 39cm of extension, it is flexible but it only just compresses into the body and although I find myself pretty good with handling delicate instruments, I found it tricky to get it all right. Upon screwing the front bellows frame into the front standard - the very last procedure after restoring the camera - I overtightened and broke not only one, but two 1.6mm screws... leaving the thread inside. Got help from a precision mechanic I know and everything has ended happily, but I now wonder whether all this was worth the saved pennies. I got the camera for $750. You've probably spent quite a bit more on your MT, so having Marflex doing a CLA and install factory bellows is probably a very good idea. Converts into higher resale value as well, opposed to what I did ;)

[f1point0]

Marflex it is then. Sounds like it is considerably more expensive in the short term, but I plan to keep the camera for a long while so it will be much less of a price difference over the long term, considering the ability to use the camera as designed and maintaining resale value. Thanks for all of the info and advice!

[Frank Petronio]

Marflex it is then. Sounds like it is considerably more expensive in the short term, but I plan to keep the camera for a long while so it will be much less of a price difference over the long term, considering the ability to use the camera as designed and maintaining resale value. Thanks for all of the info and advice!

Marflex - Martin - is great and you get the quality service you pay for. But note that he is an older gentleman and not a big email user. Simply call him or send him a note in writing and be reasonably patient. Don't expect to use PayPal or for him to email you PDF invoices.

I've had the cheap Chinese bellows on a beater version of a Technika and it is challenging to install ~ All in all the factory OEM bellows is far superior and since you have a Master I'd want to keep it nice.

[Vick Ko]

Frank, or Bob...

I have a Custom Bellows Linhof bellows, for the Tech V / Master. Do you know if it will last longer than the Linhof OEM bellows for the Master?

And will the Custom Bellows version compress as small as the OEM unit?

...Vick

[Frank Petronio]

Not having had one, I wouldn't know. Custom Bellows UK makes nice bellows though so I wouldn't worry too much.

[Bob Salomon]

No reason to think that it would last as long or longer then a factory bellows and no reason to be sure that it is the same as a factory bellows.

[mortensen]

ecbuyonline's product is really good, don't be mistaken. Custom bellows' is - reportedly - too. What I discovered - to few people's surprise, probably - was that since the Technika is so excessively designed, having the perfectly right parts for it is crucial to its functionality. Thickness and compression of the bellows is really important in this matter or the camera simply won't close properly.

[Brian Ellis]

I've owned a Technika V and a Master Technika (my favorite 4x5 camera of the many I've owned). Using Marflex for the bellows is a smart move I think. But don't have them install the 150mm cam (assuming you're not going to use the rangefinder). Since you won't actually be using the cam for photography there's no point in paying the Marflex charge for installing a cam. Just try to find any old used 150mm cam, they appear on ebay occasionally among other sources. Marflex will charge $300+ to furnish and install a cam (unless their prices have come down since I checked the cost about 10 years ago, which I doubt). The charge is reasonable if you really plan to use the rangefinder because they do other things besides just sticking the cam in the camera. But those other things are unnecessary if you're just using the cam for the reason you'd be using it.

[Bob Salomon]

" they do other things besides just sticking the cam in the camera."

What they actually do is:
Measure, plot and transfer the curve for the specific lens to a blank cam and hand file it to match the curve.
Install infinity stops.
Install the focusing scale for the specific focal length lens.

You could find the infinity stops for the lenses that you use the most very helpful. Same with the focusing scales. Especially if you are trying to work with depth of field or Scheimpflug.

[Frank Petronio]

If you can afford it, having a 135-150 normal lens cammed is really nice even if you don't intend to shoot handheld. The rangefinder is a great help in the dark, or for double checking yourself, etc. and the Technika RF is the best available. It also increases the resale value, although to be honest, it is hard to recoup 100% of your investment on these things unless you buy them at a bargain price.

And in some situations you can't use a tripod - some busy cities, parks, tight locations... In good light when you are shooting at a higher shutter speed and moderately stopped down, the handheld photos will look excellent and sharp.

[Vick Ko]

That is my worst nightmare (breaking parts), and I've done a fair number of camera repair / restorations.

I'm glad your experience turned out well.

....Vick


... and although I find myself pretty good with handling delicate instruments, I found it tricky to get it all right. Upon screwing the front bellows frame into the front standard - the very last procedure after restoring the camera - I overtightened and broke not only one, but two 1.6mm screws... leaving the thread inside. ...

[gary mulder]

Frank, or Bob...

I have a Custom Bellows Linhof bellows, for the Tech V / Master. Do you know if it will last longer than the Linhof OEM bellows for the Master?

And will the Custom Bellows version compress as small as the OEM unit?

...Vick

Linhof had a large part in the restart of Camera Bellows into Custom Bellows. So you can make your own estimates about the difference between the OEM and there Bellows

[pbryld]

I got some bellows from Hong Kong the other day to replace the bellows on my D2 (search on eBay). They were thinner and longer than the old ones (the camera now easily extends to the maximum and folds up tightly as well) and even though I had neglected to give them specific specs the bellows fit well (although they were sold as bellows for the 2D). The material seems durable and the cost was below $200. I am happy with the product so far and will probably use them in the future. They will make bellows in pretty much any size at a nice price.