View Full Version : Bride dies at "trash the dress" shoot
A word to the wise...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19384639
Frank Petronio
28-Aug-2012, 18:33
Saying that the photographer was stupid to present himself as a bear meal got me in trouble for speaking ill of the dead but the same goes here. Our species is better because of this natural selection process, we should encourage more of it.
Alan Gales
28-Aug-2012, 19:37
Well, I guess now there are a 1001 ways to die.
sully75
28-Aug-2012, 19:43
I always thought that was sort of a revolting phenomenon. Very sad though.
Kirk Gittings
28-Aug-2012, 19:45
“A venturesome minority will always be eager to set off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks, for godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American.”
― Edward Abbey
Were stupidity a capital offense, the planet would be a lonely place indeed.
- Leigh
Would this qualify for a "Darwin award" ?
Back in "the day", Esther Williams almost died courtesy of a similar incident.
A costume designer made a swim suit for her.
When she got in the pool, the fabric saturated and the weight pulled her to the bottom.
She only escaped by taking the suit off and swimming to the surface without it.
Things happen.
- Leigh
I'm going to a Greek wedding Sunday, the Montreal Greek community is small enough that I'm sure to meet people who attended their wedding, possibly even some of her immediate family. I don't know what to expect.
I am saddened by her untimely demise, hopefully this 'trash the dress' photo shoot fad will progress to include a serious discussion of safety in the future. It seems like a bit of harmless fun, and with proper precautions that really is what it should be. My wife and I discussed doing this in a pool on a resort where we got married, the only reason we didn't go through with it was because there wasn't enough time to dry the dress before the plane ride home. Of course we weren't going to do it in the deep end of the pool!
They need to ban weddings and dresses.
BrianShaw
29-Aug-2012, 07:00
I always thought that was sort of a revolting phenomenon. Very sad though.
Ditto. But I'm fairly well-known for being conservative, frugal (maybe even "cheap"), and not much fun at all. The other wedding phenomenon that I still think is sort of revolting is the smashing of the cake in the face of the one you allegedly love.
I like the quote provided by Kirk...
sully75
29-Aug-2012, 08:39
Ditto. But I'm fairly well-known for being conservative, frugal (maybe even "cheap"), and not much fun at all. The other wedding phenomenon that I still think is sort of revolting is the smashing of the cake in the face of the one you allegedly love.
I like the quote provided by Kirk...
One I keep trying to get people to do and no one goes for is the post reception cage fight between bride and groom, 2 people go in, only 1 survives. People are so conservativ. I'm trying to have FUN!
E. von Hoegh
29-Aug-2012, 09:01
One I keep trying to get people to do and no one goes for is the post reception cage fight between bride and groom, 2 people go in, only 1 survives. People are so conservativ. I'm trying to have FUN!
Cage match with chainsaws. With luck, 2 enter and pieces are carried out.
Ben Syverson
29-Aug-2012, 10:17
I just don't understand Trash the Dress. Check this one out:
http://www.altf.com/#!/portfolio/signature-images/signature-images/24
There's a million of these—bride half-buried, bride in a cemetery, post-apocalyptic road warrior bride.
Is it supposed to be edgy? Edgy would be "After the Divorce." Or "Trash the Exes." Or "Nuke the Church."
E. von Hoegh
29-Aug-2012, 10:30
I just don't understand Trash the Dress. Check this one out:
http://www.altf.com/#!/portfolio/signature-images/signature-images/24
There's a million of these—bride half-buried, bride in a cemetery, post-apocalyptic road warrior bride.
Is it supposed to be edgy? Edgy would be "After the Divorce." Or "Trash the Exes." Or "Nuke the Church."
I'd never heard of it before I saw this thread. No doubt some moronic fad, originated and fostered by something moronic on TV.
I'd never heard of it before I saw this thread. No doubt some moronic fad, originated and fostered by something moronic on TV.
The fad has been around for some years now. I don't understand it at all.
In reality it's a way to destroy the dress so 10 years down the road the groom can't ask the bride: "Why don't you fit into this anymore?"
I'm sure it was popularized by TV, but I'm not sure since I don't watch TV at all.
- Leigh
Mike Anderson
29-Aug-2012, 11:03
I'd take a hard look at the groom.
Oh honey you'll look great with that long flowing train. The longer the better I say. You know what would be fun? To go to the falls after the ceremony. I here it's really beautiful this time of year, the water's really flowing nicely.
Er, your insurance is paid up isn't it?
Robert Tilden
29-Aug-2012, 11:20
Ok, the science geek in me has to vent... The dress doesn't weigh any more in the water than it does out of the water (same for Esther Williams' killer bathing suit). Now, getting out of the water with a sodden dress may be a problem, but being pulled to the bottom by a dress made heavier by being soaked isn't an issue.
I suspect the "trash the dress" turnabout was more due to drag in a fast moving body of water than anything else. People in shorts and t-shirts occasionally get knocked down and carried over waterfalls by what seems to be a manageable current so I imagine a wedding dress could be much worse.
sully75
29-Aug-2012, 11:32
Ok, the science geek in me has to vent... The dress doesn't weigh any more in the water than it does out of the water (same for Esther Williams' killer bathing suit). Now, getting out of the water with a sodden dress may be a problem, but being pulled to the bottom by a dress made heavier by being soaked isn't an issue.
I suspect the "trash the dress" turnabout was more due to drag in a fast moving body of water than anything else. People in shorts and t-shirts occasionally get knocked down and carried over waterfalls by what seems to be a manageable current so I imagine a wedding dress could be much worse.
Well I think quite rightly it prevents you from swimming and keeping your head well above water, which is generally conducive to living.
E. von Hoegh
29-Aug-2012, 12:23
I'm sure it was popularized by TV, but I'm not sure since I don't watch TV at all.
- Leigh
That's an interesting sentence...
I'd never heard of it before I saw this thread. No doubt some moronic fad, originated and fostered by something moronic on TV.
No, it was originated and fostered by wedding photographers as yet another revenue stream.
Of course, I could be wrong ...
Kevin Crisp
29-Aug-2012, 14:57
Maybe near death experiences will be the next marketing trend. Just need to refine things a bit.
Gentlemen / Ladies?
This was not meant to be a humorous thread. It was meant as a warning to those who shoot this style.
I find nothing funny in the subject matter.
- Leigh
RichardSperry
29-Aug-2012, 17:09
I fail to see how the photographer is culpable in this thing.
There are a few threads on this topic floating around, with at least a couple posters placing blame or liability on the photographer. It was the bride's dumb idea, and her action.
The photographer jumped in to save her, and made more than an average attempt to save her, how is he responsible?
John Koehrer
29-Aug-2012, 20:36
No, it was originated and fostered by wedding photographers as yet another revenue stream.
Of course, I could be wrong ...
But could it be a funeral homes manner of drumming up new business?
Brian C. Miller
29-Aug-2012, 21:24
I just don't understand Trash the Dress. Check this one out:
http://www.altf.com/#!/portfolio/signature-images/signature-images/24
There's a million of these—bride half-buried, bride in a cemetery, post-apocalyptic road warrior bride.
Is it supposed to be edgy? Edgy would be "After the Divorce." Or "Trash the Exes." Or "Nuke the Church."
Some of those are good, and quite glamorous. Others, like "bride in the trunk," I find less than tasteless. The last one in that series was just aching for an accident like the poor lady who drowned.
BrianShaw
30-Aug-2012, 07:07
I fail to see how the photographer is culpable in this thing.
There are a few threads on this topic floating around, with at least a couple posters placing blame or liability on the photographer. It was the bride's dumb idea, and her action.
The photographer jumped in to save her, and made more than an average attempt to save her, how is he responsible?
I think culpability should be confined to the court and not a photo forum, but... the only "trash the dress" I've ever seen involved the photographer as just as much of a (jackass) participant as the (drunken jackasses) bridal party. It takes two to tango. And coming to the rescue of someone after participating in their demise is hardly cause for sainthood.
RichardSperry
30-Aug-2012, 16:41
I think culpability should be confined to the court and not a photo forum,
I am free to form and state opinions. Why do you need a judge?
but... the only "trash the dress" I've ever seen involved the photographer as just as much of a (jackass) participant as the (drunken jackasses) bridal party. It takes two to tango. And coming to the rescue of someone after participating in their demise is hardly cause for sainthood.
I don't know about present wedding photographers. If I ever were one, I certainly wouldn't be a participant. What makes you think this photographer was participating, and not just photographing?
BrianShaw
30-Aug-2012, 16:44
I don't know about present wedding photographers. ... What makes you think this photographer was participating, and not just photographing?
Are you kidding me?
RichardSperry
30-Aug-2012, 16:57
No I'm not kidding you, Brian.
If I were doing some known risky activity, say skydiving, and hired a photographer/videographer to record it. And my chute didn't open, and I bounced, the photographer/videographer is not culpable. Unless he bungled up my chute or something.
But then, I'm the sort of person that when I spill coffee on my crotch it's, well, my fault. And not the completely removed person who made the coffee. There are those sorts of people who believe the coffee maker is culpable(you seem to be this sort).
BrianShaw
30-Aug-2012, 16:58
(you seem to be this sort).
Get lost you fool.
(ignore list, there you are)
ic-racer
30-Aug-2012, 17:23
Ok, the science geek in me has to vent... The dress doesn't weigh any more in the water than it does out of the water (same for Esther Williams' killer bathing suit).
Yes, but your nude body will weigh less in water and just about float. Add in the weight of the dress and shoes which don't float and you may sink.
polyglot
30-Aug-2012, 21:48
The fear and hatred of things new is quite palpable in this forum recently.
The dress doesn't weigh any more in the water than it does out of the water...
Robert,
Pick up an empty 42-gallon contractor trash bag.
Then fill it with water and try to pick it up. (336 pounds, for those who don't want to calculate it.)
If any container or substance takes on water, and that water cannot drain freely and instantly, then
anyone picking up that container or carrying that substance must carry the weight of the water.
- Leigh
Darin Boville
31-Aug-2012, 00:54
If you've never experienced it it is sort of shocking how heavy a full set of clothing can get underwater. I can't imagine a wedding dress--it'd be like a sail, made of floating lead. Once the current got her what chance did she have?
--Darin
Yes, but your nude body will weigh less in water and just about float. Add in the weight of the dress and shoes which don't float and you may sink.
It is quite common for unskilled swimmers (i.e. the big majority) to drown on the extra weight of a t-shirt and jeans. A wedding dress might weigh five times that...
E. von Hoegh
31-Aug-2012, 06:54
Get lost you fool.
(ignore list, there you are)
I see the fan club is expanding.....
Andre Noble
31-Aug-2012, 07:12
Yes, in the USA civil courts the photographer would be held partially responsible and rightfully so.
redrockcoulee
31-Aug-2012, 09:15
Dark humor can be funny in many circumstances. Better never hang around murder scenes with cops if you can't take this kind of joking. Black humor is what makes the movie FARGO and similar so good.
But the black humour by cops is what they need to do when they are facing a grissley scene, we sitting at our computers are not. I understand why cops or other EMS people do it. And movies are just made up, in this case the bride has friends and family greiving not laughing. As far as the bride being a Darwin award winner etc. I do not consider myself a stupid person but I have done stupid things in my life. I know other resonablely intelligent people who have also done dumb things especially in their youth, or risky things as well. It is a sad thing that happened. I also do not understand the trash the dress thing. I think my wife still has her wedding dress and last week was our 37th anniversary. I might just ask her if she could fit into it as she just might right now. My guess is that the thought is the photos or videos of destroying the 'once in a lifetime' dress are supposed to be better memories than a dress hanging in a closet. Seems to take out some of the meaning of the occassion to me but it is not my wedding it is happening to.
Michael Wynd
2-Sep-2012, 03:02
Did anyone notice the name of the venue. Maybe it should be the Dorwin awards.
Michael_4514
2-Sep-2012, 03:41
It always amazes me how many people form strong opinions based on a headline or a very cursory set of facts.
Here is a more detailed article with photos. The girl slipped and fell into a river with a strong current. Very sad story indeed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2193579/Maria-Pantazopoulos-The-wedding-dress-shoes-bride-fell-drowned-photo-shoot.html
Michael_4514
2-Sep-2012, 03:43
Yes, in the USA civil courts the photographer would be held partially responsible and rightfully so.
As one who makes his living in the USA civil courts, I doubt very much that the photographer would face any liability had the accident happened, say, in New York.
Ok, the science geek in me has to vent... The dress doesn't weigh any more in the water than it does out of the water (same for Esther Williams' killer bathing suit). Now, getting out of the water with a sodden dress may be a problem, but being pulled to the bottom by a dress made heavier by being soaked isn't an issue.
I suspect the "trash the dress" turnabout was more due to drag in a fast moving body of water than anything else. People in shorts and t-shirts occasionally get knocked down and carried over waterfalls by what seems to be a manageable current so I imagine a wedding dress could be much worse.
The mass of the dress won't change, but it's weight can. (weight being what moves the indicator on a spring tensioned scale)
I used to be in the lobstering business and we had two types of traps, wooden, and wire. Wooden ones were about 5-10 pounds heavier (wet oak lathes compared to plastic coated wire), so wire ones were preferable for handling above water. In the water, the wooden ones were far easier to lift from the bottom by their rope. (they have bricks built in so they sink). The much lighter choice of trap above water is far heavier underwater because it doesn't displace much water.
If we ourselves were to fall in , removing our apron and boots were said to be important to reduce drowning risk, even though salt water makes all things more buoyant; I've never swam in apron and boots, but I suppose a big wedding dress could be equally risky especially in fast water. A waifish bride would probably be apt to sink even without heavy wet clothes.
Brian Ellis
2-Sep-2012, 06:46
Yes, in the USA civil courts the photographer would be held partially responsible and rightfully so.
Nonsense. We don't have nearly enough facts to know what liability, if any, the photographer would face.
If we ourselves were to fall in , removing our apron and boots were said to be important to reduce drowning risk, even though salt water makes all things more buoyant;
Cellulose has 1.5 times the specific weight of water, so it won't even float in the Dead Sea (1.2 times the density of water). The apparent lightness of cotton cloth comes from the high air content in its volume. Once the air has been fully displaced by water, you can pick up your clothes/towel from the bottom. Been there, done that...
BrianShaw
2-Sep-2012, 08:51
Nonsense. We don't have nearly enough facts to know what liability, if any, the photographer would face.
Which was exactly the point in post 27. :o
The Brian's agree... thus it is so. :D
RichardSperry
2-Sep-2012, 16:55
Which was exactly the point in post 27. :o
The Brian's agree... thus it is so. :D
Post 27, you state that opinions on the matter of photographer liability should be confined to a court room, and not discussed here.
Then ignoring the previous sentence, you then to go on to state/imply that the photographer was a participant in her drowning. It post 30 you emphasize your belief that the photographer participated in her drowning.
This other Brian is saying something different here.
The Photographer:
She had her wedding dress on and she said, "take some pictures of me while I swim a little bit in the lake,"' he said.
'She went in and her dress got heavy, I tried everything I could to save her.'
From the same article:
Lying on rocks, these are the bridal gown and high-heeled shoes worn by a newlywed woman who was killed when she fell into a river while posing for photographs.
Real estate agent Maria Pantazopoulos, 30, drowned after her dress got wet and she was dragged into the river near a 'violently' rushing waterfall in Canada.
Weird...
Helen Bach
2-Sep-2012, 17:54
Robert,
Pick up an empty 42-gallon contractor trash bag.
Then fill it with water and try to pick it up. (336 pounds, for those who don't want to calculate it.)
If any container or substance takes on water, and that water cannot drain freely and instantly, then
anyone picking up that container or carrying that substance must carry the weight of the water.
- Leigh
I think that Robert's point was that the weight of water in water is zero, in the sense that a 42-gallon trash bag full of water weighs the same when it is in water as the empty trash bag does in air (actually it weighs less).
I think that Robert's point was that the weight of water in water is zero, in the sense that a 42-gallon trash bag full of water weighs the same when it is in water as the empty trash bag does in air (actually it weighs less).
Yes, when the saturated dress is underwater, so is the bride.
When the bride tries to stand wearing the saturated dress, the dress (and the water) are out of the water.
- Leigh
Frank Petronio
2-Sep-2012, 18:45
Even if the photographer was found not liable, they'd probably lose at least a good portion of their business, reputation, insurance, and money in the course of the case. No winners here.
I regret calling the bride stupid, I've done plenty of dumber, riskier things myself and seen other people that I know are mostly bright be thoughtless too. It's a real shame. I know there are plenty of ex-climbers here for example, and to non-climbers that probably seems just as silly as doing trash the dress photos.
I think a lot of the dresses that get trashed are not the originals but rather disposable, cheap old thrift market ones. Or perhaps it signifies their hope that the dress will only need to be used one time, as in only getting married once?
BrianShaw
2-Sep-2012, 19:02
[QUOTE=RichardSperry;92775. [/QUOTE]
Yawn
RichardSperry
2-Sep-2012, 19:14
Yawn
I thought you had me on ignore, Brian.
What changed your mind?
BrianShaw
2-Sep-2012, 19:17
Pleas stop stalking and harrassing me.
Helen Bach
2-Sep-2012, 19:34
Yes, when the saturated dress is underwater, so is the bride.
When the bride tries to stand wearing the saturated dress, the dress (and the water) are out of the water.
- Leigh
Sorry, I thought that you were disputing the 'in water' part of the physics. I suspect that no-one would dispute that a wet dress is heavy out of the water.
One of my friends is a 'messy girl*' and I have done a few in-water shoots for her in various costumes - because I'm the only person she is comfortable with that has an underwater camera. We were very careful the first time she staged a fall into the water in a wedding dress. Without there being any panic, and with help immediately available, she had no problems keeping her head above water. The long dress and underskirts didn't impede her legs very much at all - she was able to hitch them up out of the way. It was, however, very easy to see how things could be tragically different in only slightly different circumstances.
*Google with care if you don't know what it means - it's a fetish for getting messy.
Ben Syverson
2-Sep-2012, 21:36
Have you guys seen the photos of where she was standing? It's whitewater near a waterfall. Her body was found 100 feet from where she fell, so the current must have been quite strong.
Anyway, that might help explain why the photographer couldn't just pull her out, and why the dress made things so problematic.
It's absolutely horrible, no two ways about it. The photographer's business is probably shot, but it's his sanity I'd worry about. If this happened on my watch, I know I'd never be the same.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/26/article-2193579-14B318B7000005DC-163_634x296.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/08/24/article-2193340-14AEA3C6000005DC-210_634x414.jpg
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