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View Full Version : Oh my...what have I gotten myself into? Korona 8x10 advice needed



unixrevolution
27-Aug-2012, 16:59
Hey everyone!

After about a year and change playing with 4x5, I had an opportunity to take home a Korona 810-K wooden view camera. It has geared focusing on both standards, socket to accept a set of rails on the back, and folds up nice and neat. It has a turner-reich 12"/25" f/7 convertible, the glass of which is pretty much toast. The Betax No. 4 shutter works on T and B, and fires at all other speeds, though always at approx. 1/25th, never slower or faster no matter what it's set to. The bellows are soft and plyable but stink awfully, and the wood is pretty good all around. The focusing movement is loose, probably needs lube and some thigns adjusted. One of the spring tabs that holds the back on is broken.

Here are my questions:

1. Am I a moron for paying $300 for this thing?

2. How can I get the smell out of it?

3. Any reccomendations on what to do with the lens/shutter? Should I look for another copy, or go with something Moderne?

4. Any chance I can find parts...E.G. the spring clip for the back and the rear rail set...somewhere?

Answers and comments appreciated.

lenser
27-Aug-2012, 17:55
I once owned the 4x5 version ans wish I hadn't sold it. The 8x10 should easily be worth your price, especially if the lens can be returned to service. I've got the same lens and have some fine results from it, so I would say it's worth the additional investment.

I suggest you contact Carol Miller at Flutotscamerarepair.com. She is fabulous on old shutters and depending on the problems with the glass, may be able to clean that up as well. She is also extremely reasonable on price for a CLA.

As to the odor, leave it open without the back or lensboard to air it out and maybe try something like Febreeze. I've had that work well on some really awful pet odors, so maybe it will help with this.

The extension rails might be found on the bay and the back clip might also, although I think you might find a good machinist to make one.

John Kasaian
27-Aug-2012, 19:05
Hey everyone!

After about a year and change playing with 4x5, I had an opportunity to take home a Korona 810-K wooden view camera. It has geared focusing on both standards, socket to accept a set of rails on the back, and folds up nice and neat. It has a turner-reich 12"/25" f/7 convertible, the glass of which is pretty much toast. The Betax No. 4 shutter works on T and B, and fires at all other speeds, though always at approx. 1/25th, never slower or faster no matter what it's set to. The bellows are soft and plyable but stink awfully, and the wood is pretty good all around. The focusing movement is loose, probably needs lube and some thigns adjusted. One of the spring tabs that holds the back on is broken.

Here are my questions:

1. Am I a moron for paying $300 for this thing? No

2. How can I get the smell out of it? Fabreze?

3. Any reccomendations on what to do with the lens/shutter? Should I look for another copy, or go with something Moderne?All T-Rs I've seen are pretty much toast. Don't worry about it, It'll be just fine
4. Any chance I can find parts...E.G. the spring clip for the back and the rear rail set...somewhere?Sure, eBay, or swap meets

Answers and comments appreciated.

unixrevolution
27-Aug-2012, 19:18
I once owned the 4x5 version ans wish I hadn't sold it. The 8x10 should easily be worth your price, especially if the lens can be returned to service. I've got the same lens and have some fine results from it, so I would say it's worth the additional investment.

I suggest you contact Carol Miller at Flutotscamerarepair.com. She is fabulous on old shutters and depending on the problems with the glass, may be able to clean that up as well. She is also extremely reasonable on price for a CLA.

As to the odor, leave it open without the back or lensboard to air it out and maybe try something like Febreeze. I've had that work well on some really awful pet odors, so maybe it will help with this.

The extension rails might be found on the bay and the back clip might also, although I think you might find a good machinist to make one.

If I had any hope of fixing the lens, I'd send it off. The cement between the elements looks ronnied, it's not just on the surface. I'll inquire, though.

Brian Ellis
27-Aug-2012, 19:20
$300 for almost any functioning 8x10 field camera seems like a good deal to me. I don't know about the smell. I'd get a modern lens for it. I don't know about parts but you could always check with Richard Ritter and see what he might be able to make for you and at what cost.

lenser
27-Aug-2012, 20:14
Can you include photos of the lens elements and of the broken back clip?

unixrevolution
28-Aug-2012, 09:53
Can you include photos of the lens elements and of the broken back clip?

Photos:

The camera itself:


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8288/7877904526_8e013d9e89_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877904526/)
IMG_3270 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877904526/) by unixrevolution (http://www.flickr.com/people/unixrevolution/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8421/7877904138_03348e633c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877904138/)
IMG_3267 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877904138/) by unixrevolution (http://www.flickr.com/people/unixrevolution/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8305/7877903568_00593d00c0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877903568/)
IMG_3266 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877903568/) by unixrevolution (http://www.flickr.com/people/unixrevolution/), on Flickr

unixrevolution
28-Aug-2012, 10:06
Can you include photos of the lens elements and of the broken back clip?

The broken clip:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7108/7877906916_7835512031_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877906916/)
Broken Tab (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877906916/) by unixrevolution (http://www.flickr.com/people/unixrevolution/), on Flickr

Good Clip:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7123/7877906362_007c94100c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877906362/)
Good Tab (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877906362/) by unixrevolution (http://www.flickr.com/people/unixrevolution/), on Flickr

Lens Cells, front, then back:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8290/7877905972_b802ec8d73_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877905972/)
IMG_3276 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877905972/) by unixrevolution (http://www.flickr.com/people/unixrevolution/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7260/7877905476_c7c19ffd67_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877905476/)
IMG_3275 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/7877905476/) by unixrevolution (http://www.flickr.com/people/unixrevolution/), on Flickr

John Kasaian
28-Aug-2012, 10:44
Balsam seperation on the lens---very typical of T-Rs---see what to does anyway, you might enjoy the Sally Mann look!

unixrevolution
28-Aug-2012, 11:24
Balsam seperation on the lens---very typical of T-Rs---see what to does anyway, you might enjoy the Sally Mann look!

The lens and shutter works enough for me to play with it, so I intend to do just that, at least for a little while! I do plan to either restore the T-R, buy a more modern piece of glass, or both eventually.

unixrevolution
28-Aug-2012, 11:38
Would this camera make a good parts donor for my Korona? The extra rail, and focus tabs would seem to work on mine, plus there's a 5x7 reducing back and a wide angle lens I could probably use. The bellows on this one have had it, though. I'd pass along what I didn't use as a project.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gundlach-Korona-Wizard-View-Camera-with-Extended-Rail-c-1900-Wollensack-Lens-/320972247569?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item4abb6fd211

Graybeard
28-Aug-2012, 12:16
I once owned the 4x5 version ans wish I hadn't sold it. The 8x10 should easily be worth your price, especially if the lens can be returned to service. I've got the same lens and have some fine results from it, so I would say it's worth the additional investment.

I suggest you contact Carol Miller at Flutotscamerarepair.com. She is fabulous on old shutters and depending on the problems with the glass, may be able to clean that up as well. She is also extremely reasonable on price for a CLA.

As to the odor, leave it open without the back or lensboard to air it out and maybe try something like Febreeze. I've had that work well on some really awful pet odors, so maybe it will help with this.

The extension rails might be found on the bay and the back clip might also, although I think you might find a good machinist to make one.

I'm afraid that I don't share your opinion of Carol at Flutot Camera Repair.

I sent two Alphax #3's to her for cleaning/repair. One was DOA at my end twice (I sent it back to her after the first DOA) and the second died after being fired three or four times.

The shutter repair services at S K Grimes are more reliable (and expensive, but the shutter does work properly when returned).

Jim C.
28-Aug-2012, 13:45
Would this camera make a good parts donor for my Korona? The extra rail, and focus tabs would seem to work on mine, plus there's a 5x7 reducing back and a wide angle lens I could probably use. The bellows on this one have had it, though. I'd pass along what I didn't use as a project.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gundlach-Korona-Wizard-View-Camera-with-Extended-Rail-c-1900-Wollensack-Lens-/320972247569?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item4abb6fd211

The devil is in the details, the eBay Korona Wizard might serve as a donor camera for yours if you replace both clips,
and the screw holes match, and if you can get it at the starting price ( doubtful ) even then it would be a set of very expensive clips.
The auction one has a decorative edge and yours is very plain, it's a part that is easy enough to fabricate yourself from some brass.
I'm not sure about Koronas but if they're the same as Kodak 2D's the extension rails are probably matched during manufacture,
so the fit may be a little tight, or at worse so off that you may need to reposition the alignment pins for the extension rail.

Steven Tribe
28-Aug-2012, 14:27
A few points.

Bellows. There are two problems with your present bellows. The smell could be a sign of nasty fungal growth that may result in complete failure, not just at corners. Could be toxic too. The bellows sag is much more than usually seen - even on old bellows. The e**y bellows looks very good and original. Corner pinholes can be permanently solved with black cloth tape inside the 4 edges.

T-R is a problem child for all lens restorers. The company itself had difficulties in making it to start with. Each cell is made up of 5 pieces of glass - 4 balsam joins! Even if it is just one of these joins that has broken down, all 4 will have to be renewed at the same time.

unixrevolution
28-Aug-2012, 15:25
The devil is in the details, the eBay Korona Wizard might serve as a donor camera for yours if you replace both clips,
and the screw holes match, and if you can get it at the starting price ( doubtful ) even then it would be a set of very expensive clips.
The auction one has a decorative edge and yours is very plain, it's a part that is easy enough to fabricate yourself from some brass.
I'm not sure about Koronas but if they're the same as Kodak 2D's the extension rails are probably matched during manufacture,
so the fit may be a little tight, or at worse so off that you may need to reposition the alignment pins for the extension rail.

Exactly why I asked. I should ask for some measurements if I'm going to bid on it. I'm primarily interested in the rail.


Air it out in sunlight with the bellows near maximum extension for a few days. That and/or Febreze or similar should help with the smell. A good wood treatment might help as well. Many here can tell you about where to find old parts.

As to the lens - take a look at what can be done with lenses many would throw in the trash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o62-YMQHeoI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EiW9KIZy-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H9URSmy0dQ

The photographer looks for older lenses in lousy condition. You may not want that but for some it works out well.

Enjoy the journey and hope you get some fine work you are happy with.

Thanks for the tips on bellows cleaning! I fully intend to shoot the T-R before I do anything with it, including restore or sell it, so we shall see.


I'm afraid that I don't share your opinion of Carol at Flutot Camera Repair.

I sent two Alphax #3's to her for cleaning/repair. One was DOA at my end twice (I sent it back to her after the first DOA) and the second died after being fired three or four times.

The shutter repair services at S K Grimes are more reliable (and expensive, but the shutter does work properly when returned).

I sent a Copal 0 to her once, came back in great shape. I didn't keep it long after she had it though, and it was just a cleaning.


A few points.

Bellows. There are two problems with your present bellows. The smell could be a sign of nasty fungal growth that may result in complete failure, not just at corners. Could be toxic too. The bellows sag is much more than usually seen - even on old bellows. The e**y bellows looks very good and original. Corner pinholes can be permanently solved with black cloth tape inside the 4 edges.

T-R is a problem child for all lens restorers. The company itself had difficulties in making it to start with. Each cell is made up of 5 pieces of glass - 4 balsam joins! Even if it is just one of these joins that has broken down, all 4 will have to be renewed at the same time.

Is there any fix for badly saggy bellows like mine except repacement? Would I be better off to sell this Korona if I buy the eBay one?

As for the lens...yeah, not sure about that either. I've had an offer to buy if I don't feel like redoing the cemented elements myself.

Jim C.
28-Aug-2012, 16:24
Have you tried posting a Wanted in the Forums own buy and sell threads ?

Might be worth while to try especially if you need a few things, nothing worse
than buying a camera for parts only to fall in love with it and not cannibalize it.
And I speak from experience ! :)

unixrevolution
29-Aug-2012, 05:26
Have you tried posting a Wanted in the Forums own buy and sell threads ?

Might be worth while to try especially if you need a few things, nothing worse
than buying a camera for parts only to fall in love with it and not cannibalize it.
And I speak from experience ! :)

Not yet, but I will do so here shortly.

Also, I think I know why the bellows is sagging so badly. The previous owner bought it at an antique store or a thrift shop or something...and displayed it in her home with the bellows open for AT LEAST 10 years (but possibly much longer). One of those "look at it but don't actually use it" collectors. She sold it to me to pay for her new NEX-7, which actually I rather like.

unixrevolution
29-Aug-2012, 11:29
Could I correct the bellows sagging problem by leaving the camera upside-down for a while? Or maybe re-mounting the bellows inverted?

Steven Tribe
29-Aug-2012, 13:30
Perhaps, but I doubt it. Perhaps it has been open, on display, for decades - but, again, I doubt it, as the smell would have gone.

The inverted bellows would show the longitudinal join.

John Kasaian
29-Aug-2012, 14:36
Onel remedy for sagging bellows is make a "tent" out of card stock to prop up the bottom of the bellows.
If you've got a "D" ring attahed to the top of the bellows you can put a small diameter dowel or rod through it with the ends resting on the standards to hold it up.
Then there is Viagra:rolleyes:

unixrevolution
29-Aug-2012, 18:30
Perhaps, but I doubt it. Perhaps it has been open, on display, for decades - but, again, I doubt it, as the smell would have gone.

The inverted bellows would show the longitudinal join.

Quite right on the second part. My very helpful mother told me to try leaving it open upside-down and that, oddly, seems to be working.

As for the first...I think the smell is getting much better. The previous owner told me she'd never had the lensboard or ground glass off, ever.


Onel remedy for sagging bellows is make a "tent" out of card stock to prop up the bottom of the bellows.
If you've got a "D" ring attahed to the top of the bellows you can put a small diameter dowel or rod through it with the ends resting on the standards to hold it up.
Then there is Viagra:rolleyes:

The bellows of this camera actually has 2 D-rings. If the inversion therapy doesn't work, I may use the d-rings to pull the bellows up.

unixrevolution
10-Sep-2012, 19:02
Update:

1. I am undeterred by the smell.

2. Lens is really shot. Estimate to de-laminate and re-cement by a professional is $1000. I have a Fuji 300 F/5.6 as a replacement. I'ts now mounted on a graphic board, and i have plywood and stain to make a new board for the Korona.

3. Film holders found. I have four now.

premortho
11-Sep-2012, 09:11
So is that Turner Reich lens for sale now? If so I'd be interested.
Update:

1. I am undeterred by the smell.

2. Lens is really shot. Estimate to de-laminate and re-cement by a professional is $1000. I have a Fuji 300 F/5.6 as a replacement. I'ts now mounted on a graphic board, and i have plywood and stain to make a new board for the Korona.

3. Film holders found. I have four now.

Peter Gomena
11-Sep-2012, 11:13
I paid the same amount for the same model camera a decade ago and was able to get it up and working in a couple of weeks. It was a fun old beast for tinkering, a little shaky. It had both extension rails, but needed a new bellows.

Funny thing about old cameras. For $300 you can buy an old wooden 8x10. By time you fix it up, replace the bellows and add a lens, you have a $1,000 view camera you can re-sell for $400, lens not included. It's worth it for the enjoyment it generates.

Peter Gomena

unixrevolution
21-Dec-2012, 11:26
I paid the same amount for the same model camera a decade ago and was able to get it up and working in a couple of weeks. It was a fun old beast for tinkering, a little shaky. It had both extension rails, but needed a new bellows.

Funny thing about old cameras. For $300 you can buy an old wooden 8x10. By time you fix it up, replace the bellows and add a lens, you have a $1,000 view camera you can re-sell for $400, lens not included. It's worth it for the enjoyment it generates.

Peter Gomena

I've been playing with it here an there, and I have a table of expenses:

Camera: $300
Lens/Shutter (Fujinon 300mm): $250
Lens board (Super Graphic compatible): $16.95
Lens Board Adapter parts (to fit Graphic lens boards):
Lens Board sliding locks: $25.00
Wood, Birch Ply: $6.00
Stain, Minwax: $5.00
Hardware (various): $5.00
Wood Film Holders: 4 at $20 each, $80
Back Clips, to replace broken units: $50

Total: $737.95

Other things like processing equipment, Tripod, meters, etc... are pre-existing with my 4x5, small and medium format setups.

I may yet end up getting a new ground glass for it, but I've just been doing a little here and there until it's done. I've had other things crop up and I've not come home in daylight from my job more than 3 times since the daylight savings switch.

C. D. Keth
21-Dec-2012, 11:36
If you're worried about not losing money on a hobby, than large format probably isn't for you. If that's your primary concern, get into leicas.

unixrevolution
21-Dec-2012, 15:01
My primary concern with my hobby is making images. But I am glad to not be completely underwater with this Korona so far!

unixrevolution
4-Apr-2013, 09:28
Well, after several more rounds of tinkering, I got it up and running. Still have to stain the lens board, but i've taken and developed images with it!

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8101/8616555420_92a403361c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/8616555420/)
DSC02409 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/8616555420/) by unixrevolution (http://www.flickr.com/people/unixrevolution/), on Flickr

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8117/8616552904_429c284325_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/8616552904/)
DSC02386 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/unixrevolution/8616552904/) by unixrevolution (http://www.flickr.com/people/unixrevolution/), on Flickr

She's a beauty! The ground glass is a little spotty but works well. Here's what I had to do:

remove, reshape, and reattatch the brackets that hold the standards to the rail

lubricate rail, gear teeth, and joints

attatch 300mm f/5.6 to Graphic lens board using retaining ring as flange

build new lens board, attatch clips, fit to camera and Graphic lens board

Remove old clips, fill holes, drill new holes, install new clips

disassemble and reassemble the spring back, but correctly this time

clean and treat wood

So now after several months of tinkering between other projects, there she sits! I still want a rear extension rail, but i'm pleased as punch.