If I fix for inconsistent times over the recomended time am I screwing anything up?

[sully75]

I'm using TF-4. As long as I fix for the recommended time, if I'm a little over by a minute or two am I in danger of screwing anything up? It doesn't seem to do any harm. I oftentimes start my next batch of film while the last one is in the fixer, so the last batch sometimes gets a minute more or so of fixing.

[jp]

No harm, even for an extra ten or fifteen minutes I'm sure.

[Sevo]

Exceeding fix times by 100-200% is entirely harmless for films and PE coated paper - modern fixers will only start eating into the shadow (respectively highlight, on paper) areas once you overdo it by 500% or more. With fibre based paper, it will complicate washing - past some point you won't be able to achieve archival state any more. Besides, a loose fixing discipline means that you'll have to do a chemical test on each and every print to verify whether it is sufficiently stable - so whatever regime you use, you are well advised to stick to the times you have established/tested.

[polyglot]

For film, no problem. In Way Beyond Monochrome, Lambrecht shows that measurable (though unlikely to be perceptible) bleaching starts occurring at about 10:00. I usually fix for 5:00 (normal film) to 8:00 (TMAX).

Time in fixer for FB paper should be minimised in order to minimise the uptake of fixer into the paper, which makes it really hard to wash. For FB, you should do two-bath (0:30 plus 0:30) fixing at film strength to get complete fixation while minimising the thiosulphate content of the paper. Once the first bath starts reaching capacity, you promote the second bath to first and make up a new second bath; the second bath is always near-fresh with very low silver content.

[E. von Hoegh]

I'm using TF-4. As long as I fix for the recommended time, if I'm a little over by a minute or two am I in danger of screwing anything up? It doesn't seem to do any harm. I oftentimes start my next batch of film while the last one is in the fixer, so the last batch sometimes gets a minute more or so of fixing.

It's more or less harmless, but why introduce another variable?

[Leigh]

When I'm printing, I normally leave a print in the fixer after initial agitation until the next print is ready to go in.
I move that print to the wash before I move the next from the stop to the fix. The time interval is relatively uniform.

Always use a proper hypo clearing solution like Perma-Wash according to the directions to remove fixer.
It greatly reduces wash time and does a superior job of removing fixer from the print or film.

- Leigh

[sully75]

It's more or less harmless, but why introduce another variable?

Because if I end up doing 3 runs of film, and can start the next batch while the fix/wash cycle is still going, I've saved myself about a half hour.

For the record I should have stated I don't print. Only develop film and scan.

Thanks!

[Leigh]

I've saved myself about a half hour.
If you're washing for a half hour, there's something really wrong.

Use Perma-Wash as I mentioned previously and your entire wash cycle will be about five minutes.

- Leigh

[Vaughn]

Not a problem for you, but over-fixing paper with fixers containing a hardener might 'over-harden' the emulsion which might give you some differences in the paper's response to toners...and might cause excessive curling of the paper when drying.

[Leigh]

I haven't seen any modern fixers that contain hardeners.
Some brands sell a hardening solution separately that you can add to the fixer if you wish.

But I agree with Vaughn that you should limit fixing time if it does contain a hardener.

- Leigh

[sully75]

That's over 3 cycles of film development. With the TF-4 I do 3 changes of water, no photoflow or perma-wash, don't seem to have any problems with residual fixer.

[Leigh]

With water bath rather than running water wash you definitely need a hypo clearing agent.

Water bath does not remove fixer worth a darn.

- Leigh

[sully75]

With water bath rather than running water wash you definitely need a hypo clearing agent.

Water bath does not remove fixer worth a darn.

- Leigh

Ok. My negatives look better than they ever have.

I'm pretty sure the Ilford method does not use running water nor hypo clear.

[Leigh]

I know nothing about the "Ilford Method". I think I started processing about 30 years before they published it.

- Leigh

[RichardSperry]

http://www.adorama.com/KKFXG.html

Kodak's basic general fixer has hardener.

[bob carnie]

Over fixing paper with a rapid fixer will bleach out the highlights slightly , but I am talking in the 10 minute range, I am not sure of the effect for film but anything over 10 minutes would be a concern in my darkroom.

[jnantz]

paul

if you reuse your fixer make sure you don't over-use it. i would do a clip test before you process your film to make sure it is still good
and give you a full-fix time. don't reuse your fixer if it clears your scrap of film in 2x the original clear time. to make sure you aren't
UNDER fixing your film, make sure fix for 2x the clear time ...
the photo flo just helps you dry your film without streaks, it has nothing really to do with fixer ...

[jnantz]

leigh

i never heard that using the soak method doesn't leach fixer out of prints or films,
i have heard it works at least as good, if not better than filling and dumping with running water, and it doesn't waste that much water.

[Leigh]

i have heard it works at least as good, if not better than filling and dumping with running water, and it doesn't waste that much water.
I don't understand "filling and dumping with running water".

Wash techniques are one or the other. You use running water, or you fill and dump.

A proper archival final wash sequence with Perma-Wash only takes four minutes of running water.

- Leigh

[sully75]

Leigh,

The Ilford method is fill - agitate (first 10x then 20x then 30x) - then soak 5 minutes. Rumored to be archival.

It's not fill - dump - fill - dump.

I use motor bases, so I don't do the soak. I just leave it running and change the water out a few times. My negatives have been super, super clean since I switched to TF-4 fixer.

[jnantz]

hi paul

i don't think you will have trouble
except for streaking and water marks at some point ( hope i am not jinxing you ! ) unless you use photoflo or something similar.
i have a bottle that was opened in 1982 that i just finished, seems to be like a lifetime supply for just a few dollars
seeing it is just a few drops / container that is used. if you find water marks or streaking at some point, it might be a
good investment ....


---

leigh,

there is more than 1 way to archivally wash things.
the ilford method works, leaving the film container under
a spigot of cold running water works, filling + dumping
( with water shut off between dump + fill or left on ) works as well.

i was taught " at least 20 fills and dumps " even if one uses fixer remover or perma wash type chemistry,
i was also taught "leave the sheet film in the hangers in a rubber tank under the cold spigot for 5-10 mins "
by someone i trained with, who was trained herself in the 20s + 30s. she had film from the 30s that
was pristine and chemistry free ... washed under a stream of running water ...

if your method works for you, great, but its not the only one out there ;)

- john