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View Full Version : Advice on a good stiff 8x10 filed camera



jayavant
9-Aug-2012, 15:06
I have an old Burke and James wooden 8x10 that is heavy, unstable, and inaccurate in its movements. I want to upgrade to something nor too heavy but good and rigid. I shoot outdoors, often in the wind.

I am considering a Deardorrf or a Chamonix. Does anyone have any experience, particularly with the latter.

(also can a moderator please correct the error in the title of this thread)

cosmicexplosion
9-Aug-2012, 15:08
richard ritter?

vinny
9-Aug-2012, 15:33
chamonix, haven't seen a ritter in person

Daniel Stone
9-Aug-2012, 15:51
Kodak Master View, it's aluminum, and a very versatile camera IMO. But not too heavy either(around 12# or so). Packs up into a pretty small(for 8x10) package size-wise...

downside(IMO) is the lensboards. Original, undrilled ones are hard(if not almost impossible) to find, newly made(and redesigned) ones are expensive, $125-150/each. Hence why I've contracted SKGrimes to make a lensboard adapter to take SINAR/HORSEMAN lensboards, they're much more common, and VASTLY cheaper price-wise :)

-Dan

jayavant
9-Aug-2012, 17:07
Thanks for your replies so far.

From what I read the Chamonix may be a little more rigid than the Ritter. IT is also heavier. Has less movements too and shorter bellows extension. Prices are similar - Ritter a little cheaper.

Rigidity is my main concern.

Frank Petronio
9-Aug-2012, 17:27
If you FILE a camera it will probably get weaker. Otherwise:

1. An Arca-Swiss. A rare older one if you can find one, or an expensive newer one if you can find one.

2. Daniel's advice on the KMV squares with mine, nothing floppy, a great design.

3. There is/was a guy trying to sell his Toyo 810 Field for about $3K, it is the brick $hithouse of cameras, plenty of overkill solid.

2. A Chinese knock off of a Phillips.

3. The camera you have and better carry options (stroller, air shippable box, something that makes life easier).

If I were going to shoot outdoors in the wind with an 8x10, for the money I would get an 8x10 Sinar Norma or F2 or even a P for less than $1000 by being patient and smart on eBay. I would mount it onto the Sinar Pan Tilt Head and a large #5 metal Gitzo, like a G-504 or 511. All of that would cost $1500 to $2000. It would be awful to carry more than 10-15 minutes at a time, it is not a backpacking rig. But it is a "get the picture right and in focus no matter what the conditions are" kind of camera. And they don't break the bank. A similar case could be made for similar Toyos, Cambos, and such but I use Sinar because they are so plentiful.

John Kasaian
9-Aug-2012, 18:20
A good Deardorff is a good Deardorff.

cosmicexplosion
9-Aug-2012, 18:34
Yeah yeah yeah she loves me yeah yeah yeah

Oh sorry,,,,

Eh mmmm where was I ah yes. Tell us. Are you traveling far from car?

I guess if you tell us your typical scenario it would help

If you want to drive to a location then any camera in the world will do

A big Mono rail like the sinar are all the camera you can hope for

Kind of like if you have a sinar you can't blame your tools


I asked this question a while back About wind.

And the fact is I am writing this message on my iPhone in a 2.6 ton transporter vw
the wind is giving it a good ok rattle

So we have to be a bit realistic

Wind and 810 are not a match in heaven

You need to think about things like an umbrella

To make a wind break

The sinar Norma look good compared to a sinar p in that they look stronger
Made the old way as frank once pointed out about their sOlid build.

The p are are not so robust but if you treat it kind will be great
Out and about

So your budget is about 3k

Tell us what you shoot typically and stuff like that
As its a tricky choice but in the end
I got a Kodak 2d and it sits in my car in a low pro back pack
And has been fine for most shots

Do you need extreme movements

A cheap toyo monorail is as good as any if you want sturdy over compact

I would not worry about weight

Just gett some sort of a trolley or buggy or Sherpa

Even a box with wheels

Do you drive

What sort of car.

Tell us all,

A

Former Member 27732
9-Aug-2012, 23:55
FWIW, I "enjoy" a love/hate relationship with my Ritter 8x10 and certainly can't recommend it when the wind gets up. In a slight breeze, and when using a (very) short focal length lens, I use rubber bands between front & rear standards to reduce some of the vibration in the front standard. It also takes a not inconsiderable amount of time to setup because the lens board doesn't sit parallel in the front standard - I have to add left swing to get focus from left to right across the frame.
/Frank...

evan clarke
10-Aug-2012, 13:50
I have an 11x14 Chamonix and use it like it's a 4x5. It's excellent. The 8x10 could only be better..

Miguel Coquis
10-Aug-2012, 14:08
wow !!!!
and then.....



Yeah yeah yeah she loves me yeah yeah yeah

Oh sorry,,,,

Eh mmmm where was I ah yes. Tell us. Are you traveling far from car?

I guess if you tell us your typical scenario it would help

If you want to drive to a location then any camera in the world will do

A big Mono rail like the sinar are all the camera you can hope for

Kind of like if you have a sinar you can't blame your tools


I asked this question a while back About wind.

And the fact is I am writing this message on my iPhone in a 2.6 ton transporter vw
the wind is giving it a good ok rattle

So we have to be a bit realistic

Wind and 810 are not a match in heaven

You need to think about things like an umbrella

To make a wind break

The sinar Norma look good compared to a sinar p in that they look stronger
Made the old way as frank once pointed out about their sOlid build.

The p are are not so robust but if you treat it kind will be great
Out and about

So your budget is about 3k

Tell us what you shoot typically and stuff like that
As its a tricky choice but in the end
I got a Kodak 2d and it sits in my car in a low pro back pack
And has been fine for most shots

Do you need extreme movements

A cheap toyo monorail is as good as any if you want sturdy over compact

I would not worry about weight

Just gett some sort of a trolley or buggy or Sherpa

Even a box with wheels

Do you drive

What sort of car.

Tell us all,

A

Leigh
10-Aug-2012, 14:31
The Sinar F2 is designed to be a field camera (that's what the F means). It's quite good.

- Leigh

Bill Koechling
10-Aug-2012, 14:48
I would say Arca-Swiss F or Sinar F. Best weight to sturdiness ratio and both have good support in parts. The wind can move ANY camera you choose. You just need to get it where you want to take photos and put it on a sturdy tripod. (I miss my old Majestic.)

Leigh
10-Aug-2012, 15:24
(I miss my old Majestic.)
I have two Majestics, a big one and a bigger one. :D

They're superb.

- Leigh

Lachlan 717
10-Aug-2012, 15:44
Shen Hao HZX810.

cosmicexplosion
10-Aug-2012, 20:13
http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2011/12/big-camera-comparison/ (http://http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2011/12/big-camera-comparison/)

there is a vid here of a toyo view out in the wind, looks pretty safe and the results were good!

Kevin J. Kolosky
10-Aug-2012, 20:21
FWIW, I "enjoy" a love/hate relationship with my Ritter 8x10 and certainly can't recommend it when the wind gets up. In a slight breeze, and when using a (very) short focal length lens, I use rubber bands between front & rear standards to reduce some of the vibration in the front standard. It also takes a not inconsiderable amount of time to setup because the lens board doesn't sit parallel in the front standard - I have to add left swing to get focus from left to right across the frame.
/Frank...

why wouldn't you send that back to have the lens board fixed so it sits parallel?

cosmicexplosion
10-Aug-2012, 20:23
Shen Hao HZX810.


Hi Lachlan, how are you?

i was just wondering, you have owned a toyo view, why do you chose the Shen 108?

(i keep thinking a toyo would be my friend, if only they were wood!)

Lachlan 717
11-Aug-2012, 02:37
Hi Lachlan, how are you?

i was just wondering, you have owned a toyo view, why do you chose the Shen 108?

(i keep thinking a toyo would be my friend, if only they were wood!)

Evening, A!

Two reasons for selling the Toyo.

First, it doesn't (easily) accept Sinar shutter, making shooting barrels bloody difficult.

Second, it was just too f-ing heavy!

Beautiful camera, make no mistake. Just not for me.

cosmicexplosion
11-Aug-2012, 03:47
fair call

why are these makers so proud they dont have modular systems?

afraid of communism?

will some one make a modular camera that takes sinar shutters, looks good, and is as good, so Lachlan can be happy.

not to derail this fred

but did you get a shen and are they a copy of an ebony?

is it good?

jayavant
11-Aug-2012, 04:25
I have a Shenhao 4x5. It's a good camera. I got the old Burke and James 8x10 out today and shot a couple of sheets. Damn it's heavy and yet not rigid at all.

I'm not a car shooter. I carry my cameras in a backpack in the bush. Sometimes for miles. I don't like monorails much and I prefer a camera with centre pivoted front tilt. The Chamonix is looking good. I wonder about the Shenhao. I had my eye on a Tachihara a while ago but they seem to have gone off somewhere.

Lachlan 717
11-Aug-2012, 04:39
I shoot with a Korona 7x17, so anything is going to feel rigid in comparison. Not that the Korona's a bad camera; it's just got its limitations, and I need to work within them.

I'm sure that the HZX810's a copy of someone's camera, but Shen Hao's doing good enough work for me. Once I decide between 8x10 and 11x14, I'll look to get another one.

cosmicexplosion
11-Aug-2012, 06:11
yeah i was thinking chamonix for a while, but you have to screw focus from the back, not sure it was a swift system. turning the knob side ways, as apposed to along their lateral like a 2d or most others.

but they look good besides that, if its a prob at all?

i got a 2d just to get going, and have a cheap view camera that got me out side... so far its been fine, it seems rigid enough and i havent yet had a blury image.

all my exposures and developments are another story

but i am suprised that the old thing works.

but apparently thats what they made them for.

any way, dont mean to harp on, i cant sleep and its to cold to go into the dark room.

i agree mono rails suck in the field tho some like em. or have no other choice.

if you get a chomionix i am sure it will be fine.

they are a good looken camera.

but i am sure that each camera has pro's and cons... you just have find out what they are and see if you can deal with them.

i was thinking of an old deardorfff but i actually dont like the timber they use. call me fussy i work with wood, and grew up with wood, so i am a bit fussy .

shen hoa seem a thousand bucks cheaper, thats film to burn!


what about a canhamhttp://https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=105

these have a more traditional focus with side knobs rack and pinion

i find that with the head under the dark cloth having things on the side is easier
but i could be wrong as i ve not used one, but people have brought it up!

http://https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=97

dont even know why i am putting this up ive never used a canham...

chirp chirp

Brian Ellis
11-Aug-2012, 06:11
I've owned two Deardorff 8x10s and one 4x5 Chamonix. I've never owned or seen an 8x10 Chamonix but I assume they're basically up-sized 4x5s.

Deardorffs are great cameras but most of them were used by pros and so tended to be heavily used. Plus they're getting very old (unless you buy a new one from the guy who's now making them, can't remember his name). So you have to be careful when buying sight unseen. If you buy a Deardorff make sure you buy from a reputable seller and that you have a right to return with enough time to let you thoroughly test the camera.

I liked the 4x5 Chamonix a lot and I'd be surprised if the 8x10 wasn't an excellent camera. However, one of the nice things about the Deardorff was its simplicity. I found my 4x5 Chamonix a little more complicated to use. You should be able to buy a near mint Deardorff for about $2,000, which I assume is a good bit less than a new 8x10 Chamonix.

On balance if it were me I'd buy a Deardorff as long as I was comfortable with its cosmetics and operating condition. But I'm sure I'd be happy with the Chamonix too if that's what I ended up with. I've never seen a metal 8x10 camera that I'd want for field work except the Kodak Master View but of course I haven't seen every one.

Lewand2owski
12-Aug-2012, 17:05
Original, undrilled ones are hard(if not almost impossible) to find, newly made(and redesigned) ones are expensive, $125-150/each. Hence why I've contracted SKGrimes to make a lensboard adapter to take SINAR/HORSEMAN lensboards, they're much more common, and VASTLY cheaper price-wise
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