Nitrogen Burst Developing

[David Kashuba]

Does anyone know of a site with information on a nitrogen burst system for 8x10? Home darkroom use. 8-12 sheets per run. Pyro. "Affordable". Recommendations for nitrogen systems that work well?

-Thanks.

[wfwhitaker]

David,



At one time I considered nitrogen burst. Somewhere I have a Kodak publication on the subject, but I can't locate it. I believe I recall that the Kodak standard was to cycle the burst for one second every ten seconds and to use a pressure which would raise the level of the solution by 5/8". Pressures are generally fairly low, being of the order of 5 psi, so it would required a regulator in that range.



I abandoned the idea of gaseous burst agitation, however, for a number of reasons. At the time I was using PMK and Gordon Hutchings in The Book of Pyro specifically recommends against the use of gaseous burst agitation because of uneven development. This advice would probably hold true for any staining developer, meaning most Pyro formulas of which I'm aware.



A second reason for not using gaseous burst is economy. It takes a lot of solution (3 gallons) to fill an 8x10 tank. For a lab which does volume processing, often with a replenish-able developer, it makes sense in terms of uniformity and time savings. But on the home level, it just didn't compute, at least for me. Mind you, I'm an incurable romantic and the idea of a shiny stainless sink line and burst timers just like in the old catalogs, was very tempting! Fortunately practicality won.



For developing 8x10 film, I went with a JOBO 3005 drum and the JOBO roller base, a simple inexpensive device which allows you to roll the drum manually. To use PMK, my process required some tweaking. I won't bore you here with the details, but I'm very happy with that system and its results. The tank isn't cheap, but compared to a burst timer, regulator and the rest, it's favorable.



My $.02. If I run across the Kodak publication (and can remember), I'll let you know.



Best,
Will

[Michael Kadillak]

Sorry to have to respectfully disagree with you on this subject William. Gordon Hutchings recommends against conventional film hangers (with the holes in the bottom) with nitrogen burst, not the process itself. Gordon has been extremely helpfull in sharing his knowledge base on this subject with me as he uses nitrogen burst extensively with absolutely fabulous results and I am similarly pursuing the same end result. In his recent book of Pyro, he even provides a film hanger design that he has found successful.

Many of the labs that process film still use nitrogen burst and I feel that you are dead on in investigating this subject further. The process has enormous positive possibilities. First of all, when calibrated properly the process is automated with setting the burst timing and duration. Secondly, you can pull sheets at variable development times and lastly, you can really put a lot of film through the chemistry without drying drums or much manual attention. However, getting to that point takes some attention and these are the things I am also working on. Getting someone to build a tank (they do not need to be three gallon) with a plenum. Gordon gives you the drill hole size and the spacing in his book. Secondly is getting the right film hanger. The N2, regulator and the timer are not that expensive. I can't wait to try this process with Pyrocat HD. I just got my Zone system calibration board completed and N2 burst is next on my agenda.

I will keep you posted on my progress in the weeks ahead.

[John Cook]

Ted Pella seems to have an interesting line of equipment:

http://www.tedpella.com/photo_html/photo5.htm

You can probably pick and choose through his offerings, completing your rig of hoses, valves and dials at your local supplier of industrial/medical bottled gas.

I have had excellent results with this method over the years in color negative and transparency processing. But don't use it for the photo-flo unless you are a big fan of Lawrence Welk.

[Frank Filippone]

You realize that most Nitrogen burst tanks are 3 1/2 gallon.... That is a LOT of pyro, since it is a 1 shot developer...... I thought about using it for HC110, with replenisher.... it is much less costly....

Think this one through before you jump in...... it could be a very expensive track to follow.....

[Alec Jones]

I use it for 4x5 and love it! You don't have to use 8x10 tanks, by the way. Arkay once made a small rack which will hold 6 hangers, and fits a 1 gal. [Kodak 5x7 size] tank. The process is easy and, most importantly, reliable and repeatable. The items [esp. the timers] are sold all the time on ebay. You do need to find a copy of the Kodak pub. which gives the basics to start from.

Incidentally, I use it for roll film also, and even 35mm film, which Kodak recommended NOT be used. It works for me. I guess their setup was different.

You can make your own plenum with the proper pipe which has been drilled with the right sized holes. For 8x10, there are smaller tanks which use less than 3 1/2 gal. Nikor, I believe, made open bottom guides which fit in those tanks. Check with Photographic Systems in N.M. for some of this stuff. The Nitrogen is cheap, lasts a long time, harmless, easy to work with.

[paul stimac]

Hope I don't offend anyone by saying this but I have a start to a system that I'm trying to get rid of. $100 for 3, 3-1/2 gallon tanks, with plenum's. One, I'm told, needs minor repairs. Each tank has two lids, one that covers the entire tank, and the other that floats. I tried to sell them on ebay last week but the winner hasn't returned my emails. You'll still need to get a regulator, timer, filter, hoses and a nitrogen tank. Shipping is extra probably $30-50 because the box is big. Email me directly if you are interested.

[Eric Wagner]

The 8-page Kodak publication is: "Gaseous-Burst Agitation in Processing," Kodak Pamphlet No. E-57. California Stainless, Arkay, and Calumet used to sell gas-burst systems for one gallon and two gallon tanks. The rack for one gallon tanks held four hangers and the two gallon held seven. Calumet used to sell hangers made out of Plexiglas that worked well. Kodak recommended a one-second burst every 10 seconds at 15 PSI and stated that a standard nitrogen bottle would feed a 3.5 gallon tank 7 hours a day for four or five days.

[Michael Kadillak]

Eric: Might you use the old Calumet plexiglass hangers or know where I might be able to get my hands on one or secure a JPEG of one? I am in the process of fabricating some film hangers for gaseous burst and while I have some ideas that I think will work, there is no sense in re-inventing the wheel.

My thanks,

[A.C. Green]

In doing a search for Calumet film developers, I came across this site. I have a Calumet nitrogen burst stainless steel film developing sink I'd like to sell. The unit has four compartments with developing tanks for 8x10 sheet film, plus a compartment for 35mm film developing (capacity 36 rolls). It has a timer, pressure gauge, temperature gauge and a water line for each of the five compartments. I live in northern Virginia. If anyone is interested in it, I can e-mail photos.