Moderate wide angle lens for 7x17"

[wiggywag]

Hi!

What is considered being a moderate wide angle lens for a 7x17" camera (like a 90mm on a 4x5)? I'm wondering if a G-Claron 355" will do well as a general wide angle lens.

Thanks again!

[Lachlan 717]

Maybe a 305mm G Claron?

I use a 240/355/450mm split for mine.

[Louis Pacilla]

My moderate wide for 7x17 is a nice little Protar IV #6 10 1/4" f12.5. covers well stopped down with tiny bit left for movement but not tons but enough.

My wide is a Protar V #5 8 1/2" f18. A tiny little thing with about the same amount real estate left over for movements as the series IV #6

Another option would be a Steineil Orthostigmat Series E #4 7 7/8" f12.5 ( 17 1/2" IC w/ small stops) or #5 10 1/4" f12.5 with loads left over as it shows to have (21" IC w/ small stops.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I use a 10" Wide Field Ektar.

[William Whitaker]

One person's moderately wide is another person's extreme wide. And it's not terribly realistic to compare 7x17 to 4x5 because the shapes are so different. I find that when I'm trying to relate a semi-panoramic format to a more conventional shape, it helps if, instead of the panoramic format, that I use a format that it fits within. For example, if I want to visualize a focal length for 12x20, I might instead think in terms of 16x20 especially since the shape is the same as 8x10, with which I'm familiar. And 12x20 is essentially a cropped 16x20.

To visualize 7x17, I might think in terms of 14x17. 14x17 is actually a little bit squarer than 4x5, but it's still easier than comparing 7x17 directly. So, a 90mm on 4x5 is roughly equivalent to a 310mm lens on 14x17 which makes the 305 G-Claron mentioned above a good candidate. When I was shooting 7x17 I used a 10 3/4" Dagor or a 10" Wide-Field Ektar. I found that a 14" lens (e.g., the 355 you mentioned) a little long for my taste. But really depends on how you see. 7x17 has a way of looking "wide" even when using a longer focal length lens.

Don't know if you followed any of that, but that's my take on it. YMMV.

[Oren Grad]

I tend to key on the vertical dimension for 7x17. So I think of the 305 G-Claron as a normal, the 355 as somewhat long. For a semiwide I'd look for something in the 240-270 range (270 G-Claron or Computar, 10 3/4" Dagor, 250 Wide Field Ektar, 240 Computar).

[DrTang]

I think I used to use a 10 3/4" Dagor

[John Powers]

It has been a while since the last post, but if the topic is still alive I use a 250 Wide Field Ektar as my widest for 7x17. My most used lens is a 10” Dagor. I switched to this from a 305 G Clarion because I ran out of image circle too often. I also preferred the Dagor look. Probably my closest to a normal (diagonal dimension) is a 450 Nikon M9. My longest before I run out of bellows is a 600 Fuji. The camera is RH Phillips.

John

[John Powers]

I tend to key on the vertical dimension for 7x17. So I think of the 305 G-Claron as a normal, the 355 as somewhat long. For a semiwide I'd look for something in the 240-270 range (270 G-Claron or Computar, 10 3/4" Dagor, 250 Wide Field Ektar, 240 Computar).

Oren,

How do you use 7x17 in vertical format? I find turning the Phillips on a Ries a once a year adventure. Did you built a right angle frame such as Lotus offers on their site. If so I would be grateful to know how it is designed or built. If you simply turn the bellows as one does with a Ritter, I can't go there.

John

[Oren Grad]

How do you use 7x17 in vertical format?

I don't. My wimpitude is too intense for me even to contemplate it. :o:)

What I meant by "keying on the vertical dimension" is simply that I think of focal lengths for 7x17 in terms of their field of view relative to the narrow dimension of the format rather than the long dimension. On extremely elongated formats, FL's that are normal according to the conventional definition (diagonal of the format) render space in a way that feels very compressed to me. I prefer something that opens up the space a bit more.

[Doug Howk]

I wouldn't dare turn my Korona 7X17 on its side - the weight of lens would pull it apart. But I seem to prefer horizontal orientation in Florida.
My wide angle lens is a 265mm Ilex Kenro. My 19" Artar is close to normal for this format; but its use requires attaching an extension rail.

[John Powers]

I don't. My wimpitude is too intense for me even to contemplate it. :o:)

What I meant by "keying on the vertical dimension" is simply that I think of focal lengths for 7x17 in terms of their field of view relative to the narrow dimension of the format rather than the long dimension. On extremely elongated formats, FL's that are normal according to the conventional definition (diagonal of the format) render space in a way that feels very compressed to me. I prefer something that opens up the space a bit more.

That may explain my preference for the 10" Dagor, both on the 7x17 and the 8x10.
I hadn't thought of it that way. Thank you.

John

[Oren Grad]

That may explain my preference for the 10" Dagor, both on the 7x17 and the 8x10.

FWIW, my favorite focal length for 8x10 is 270 - just a bit on the wide side of normal.

[Jim Noel]

My favorite lens on 8x10 is 10 3/4" Dagor. I also use this on the 7x17 when I want to be slightly wider than my standard 12" Dagor which I feel gives me approximately the same horizontal angle of view as my eyes. I have had viewers make similar comments when looking at images. I also carry 14" and 19" for use on both cameras, but their use is somewhat rare.
My Davis & Sanford Floating Action tripod enables me to turn the Korona vertically with some comfort, especially in the studio where I can stabilize one leg with a sand bag. I mention the name of the camera because my friend has a different brand which does not have as stable a base.

Jim

[Tracy Storer]

I tend to think of panoramic formats in terms of the normal formats that fit WITHIN them, with the thinking that the idea is to add width to the scene you would normally be getting. So, in theory, for me, "normal" for 8x10 is "normal" for 8x20. That get's you the following correlations: 12x20/12x15, 8x20/8x10, 7x17/7x9, 4x10/4x5.
While 7x9 is a largely forgotten format, it WAS a format. The "normal" FL would be 11.5" so a moderate wide would be something in the 180-240mm range.
As others have posted, how wide is wide is a matter of taste and opinion, and YMMV.

[Keith Pitman]

Oren,

How do you use 7x17 in vertical format? I find turning the Phillips on a Ries a once a year adventure. Did you built a right angle frame such as Lotus offers on their site. If so I would be grateful to know how it is designed or built. If you simply turn the bellows as one does with a Ritter, I can't go there.

John

I made a right angle bracket for my panoramic format cameras (4x10 and 7x17) similar to the Lotus bracket from aluminum extrusions and other parts from an Ebay vendor 8020inc. They also sell through a website. It works pretty well, but, of course, the camera movements are 90-degrees screwed up.

[John Powers]

I made a right angle bracket for my panoramic format cameras (4x10 and 7x17) similar to the Lotus bracket from aluminum extrusions and other parts from an Ebay vendor 8020inc. They also sell through a website. It works pretty well, but, of course, the camera movements are 90-degrees screwed up.

Keith,

Thank you. I saw their ads several years ago and was thinking of going that route, but then forgot the name and address. Do you remember the parts list you used? Now that you have had some experience with it, would you change any of the parts you used?

Thank you,

John

[Keith Pitman]

Keith,

Thank you. I saw their ads several years ago and was thinking of going that route, but then forgot the name and address. Do you remember the parts list you used? Now that you have had some experience with it, would you change any of the parts you used?

Thank you,

John


I don't have a parts list, but I used some of the 8020inc extrusions that are 1" x 2", their gussets for the right angle, and a few specialty screws. I cut a 45-degree angle for the right angle and made my own end caps and 3/8-16 socket for the tripod mount. I used a standard 3/8-16 knob from Lowes for the camera attachment. Overall, it's pretty straight forward to make and works pretty well. I don't make many, but vertical panoramics are unique.

[Keith Pitman]

John, here's a couple of Ebay numbers:

370781328866 - is for the type of aluminum extrusion.


330858909335 - is for the gusset.

These are black, but I used silver which probably costs a little less.

8020inc sells a sells a special screw that fits the holes in the gussets as well as nuts that fit the T-slots in the extrusions.



Hope this helps.

[John Powers]

Keith,

Thank you very much. That certainly explains it and looks quite reasonable at least compared to the Lotus product. One last (I hope) question. If the hardware takes special screws and nuts to connect the pieces, how did you accept the tripod base mount screw on the bottom piece and the bolt into the camera base on the top? I use a 1950s Ries Tripod 3/8” x 16 mounting screw into a RH Phillips 7x17.

Thanks,

John

[Keith Pitman]

I don't remember what this piece of hardware is called, but it's easy to find at Lowes/Depot. I think they are used to join threaded rods (aka "all thread"). It is one inch in length, so it fits in the extrusion. This one, of course, is threaded all the way through at 3/8-16. Drill the hole a little small, and then file to the hex shape which keeps it from wobbling. On the other side, I used a 3/8-16 bolt and washer to lock this fixture in place.

[Keith Pitman]

I found a picture of the bracket with my 4x10 mounted.

[John Powers]

Keith,

Very interesting. Thank you. Time to go shopping.

Thanks,

John

[Tin Can]

Good thread that has helped me with 7x17 lens applications.

Only 2 years old, but how does a ULF thread ever become obsolete?

[William Whitaker]

Perhaps not obsolete, merely forgotten. Way too many distractions in this business...
Again, my vote for a ULF sub-forum to try to keep relevant matters up front.

[e]

My fave lens on 7x17 is the 270mm Computar...just magic on that format..240 Computar is a bit too wide for my needs..verticals are no problem with the Ries..and if you want more stability..just bring 2 tripods..which is probably a good idea..still have yet to try the 210 xl on it..jeeze that's wide..

[Tin Can]

Somewhere I found this list, and now I cannot remember where. I also cannot load it as PDF, so here is the first page.
7x17 lenses? [pre] This is a list of "modern" lenses for 7x17.
Focal Length, Aperture, & Maker E/G Shutter Rise - Fall - Shift inches (cm) 84 mm f/22 Wisner Hypergon 2/2 n.a. 0.1, 0.2; (0.3, 0.5) 200 mm f/6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon 8/4 3 0.7, 1.6; (1.8, 4.1) 200 mm f/6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon N 8/4 3 0.7, 1.6; (1.8, 4.1) 210 mm f/8 Schneider Super Angulon 6/4 1, 3 0.9, 1.8; (2.3, 4.6) 250 mm f/6.3 Kodak Wide Field Ektar 4/4 n.a. 0.0, 0.1; (0.0, 0.3) 270 mm f/6.8 Kyvyx APO-Kyvytar n.a. 3 2.7, 4.6; (6.9, 11.7) 273 mm f/6.8 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 1.2, 2.4; (3.0, 6.1) 300 mm f/6.8 Schneider Symmar 6/2 n.a. 0.9, 1.9; (2.3, 4.8) 300 mm f/5.6 Rodenstock APO Sironar 7/5 3 0.6, 1.2; (1.5, 3.0) 300 mm f/5.6 Rodenstock APO Sironar W 7/5 3 0.6, 1.2; (1.5, 3.0) 300 mm f/5.6 Sinar Sinaron WS n.a. 3 0.6, 1.2; (1.5, 3.0) 305 mm f/6.8 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 2.5, 4.4; (6.4, 11.2) 305 mm f/9 Computar F9 6/4 3 0.6, 1.2; (1.5, 3.0) 355 mm f/7.7 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 4.5, 6.9; (11.4, 17.5) 355 mm f/9 Schneider Graphic Claron 6/2 n.a. 0.4, 1.0; (1.0, 2.5) 360 mm f/6.8 Schneider Symmar 6/2 n.a. 3.0, 5.1; (7.6, 13.0) 360 mm f/9 Kyvyx APO-Kyvytar n.a. 3 1.4, 2.6; (3.6, 6.6) 360 mm f/6.8 Calumet Caltar SII n.a. n.a. 1.0, 1.9; (2.5, 4.8) 360 mm f/10 Fujinon AS 6/4 1 1.0, 1.9; (2.5, 4.8) 360 mm f/5.6 Schneider Symmar 6/4 n.a. 1.0, 1.9; (2.5, 4.8) 360 mm f/5.6 Nikkor W 6/4 3 0.8, 1.6; (2.0, 4.1) 360 mm f/6.8 Schneider APO Symmar 6/4 3 0.8, 1.6; (2.0, 4.1) 360 mm f/6.8 Schneider Symmar S 6/4 3 0.8, 1.6; (2.0, 4.1) 360 mm f/6.8 Schneider Symmar S MC 6/4 3 0.8, 1.6; (2.0, 4.1) 360 mm f/6.5 Fujinon CM-W 6/6 3 0.6, 1.2; (1.5, 3.0) 360 mm f/6.3 Fujinon NWS 6/6 n.a. 0.6, 1.2; (1.5, 3.0) 360 mm f/6.3 Fujinon W 6/4 3 0.6, 1.2; (1.5, 3.0) 360 mm f/6.8 Rodenstock APO Sironar S 6/4 3 0.2, 0.5; (0.5, 1.3) 375 mm f/6.3 Calumet Caltar n.a. n.a. 0.2, 0.5; (0.5, 1.3) 420 mm f/7.7 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 6.9, 9.9; (17.5, 25.1) 420 mm f/5.6 Fujinon FS 3/3 3 1.0, 2.0; (2.5, 5.1) 420 mm f/5.6 Fujinon SFS 3/3 3 1.0, 2.0; (2.5, 5.1) 420 mm f/4.5 Schneider Xenar 4/3 n.a. 1.0, 2.0; (2.5, 5.1) 450 mm f/8 Fujinon CM-W 6/6 3 1.3, 2.5; (3.3, 6.4) 450 mm f/8.5 Fujinon C 4/4 1 0.6, 1.4; (1.5, 3.6) 450 mm f/8.5 Fujinon CS 4/4 1 0.6, 1.4; (1.5, 3.6) 480 mm f/7.7 Goerz Dagor 6/2 n.a. 9.2, 12.5; (23.4, 31.8) 480 mm f/9 Kyvyx APO-Kyvytar n.a. 3 4.9, 7.5; (12.4, 19.1) 480 mm f/4.5 Schneider Xenar 4/3 n.a. 2.5, 4.3; (6.4, 10.9) 480 mm f/8 Goerz Gotar 4/4 n.a. 1.1, 2.2; (2.8, 5.6) 480 mm f/8.4 Rodenstock APO Sironar N 6/4 3 0.9, 1.8; (2.3, 4.6) 480 mm f/8.4 Rodenstock Sironar N 6/4 3 0.9, 1.8; (2.3, 4.6)

[Tin Can]

Within that mess, I have this lens.

300 mm f/6.8 Schneider Symmar 6/2 n.a. 0.9, 1.9; (2.3, 4.8

Anybody use this?

Movements would be tiny, but my glass is clear and the shutter perfect despite the dirt on the shutter. I need to clean it.