Just set up my new to me JOBO and started researching the serial number

[mcherry]

The unit I have has the first upgraded motor (SN: 10XXX). I can't really complain as I got the unit and a ton of extras for next to nothing and it all seems to work perfectly so far. It has the reels for 4x5 which I plan on trying this weekend. I was going to look into getting an expert drum, however 1) They cost more than I paid for the CPP2 w/lift, processor timer, graduates, two sets of bottles, reels, tanks and a 4x5 film loader... and 2) I've read that perhaps my motor (based on the serial number) can't handle the 3006 drum.

Does anyone else have an early serial number unit and, if so, have you used an expert drum with it? If so, what has been your experience?

Thanks!

[koh303]

You will have no problem using expert drums with the machine you have.
You will notice when it is getting tired, and needs a break to cool down the motor.
Upgrading the motor is also a possibility, but is not cheap.
All that being said, expert drums are expensive... you will get perfect results from your 2509 reels. When you are not satisfied with those, perhaps you should look for an expert drum...

[mcherry]

Thanks koh!

Do you load all six slots or do you stagger and only load four sheets? I know I need to do my own tests, it's really hard to gauge some of the complaints out there (for example, I know lots of people who say you cant tray develop 4x5 without scratching the film, yet I've been doing just that for years). Anywho, I've read that they may be too close together and I don't have the "new" reels with whatever baffling clips apparently came with them.

[Greg Blank]

The big problem,... and I have upgraded many of the CPP2's for a variety of people, is that the circuit boards are competely different configuration below 11,xxx. In other words the circuits boards don't allow the new style motor because the electronic components were changed and the circuit board traces are not the same. Traces are the internal wiring on the board. Despite what Koh says my experience differs a lot. I have seen many machines that died quite quickly using heavy Expert drums with the version motor that would have been the original with your serial number. A serial nmber however is not a deal killer, look at the motor itself, if it has a slotted screw holding the main cog its older, if its held by a hex screw then someone upgraded it.

[Keith Tapscott.]

A serial number however is not a deal killer, look at the motor itself, if it has a slotted screw holding the main cog its older, if its held by a hex screw then someone upgraded it.Does that also apply to the CPA2? The main cog on mine has a slotted screw holding it.

[Greg Blank]

With regard to the screw It does, the Jobo documentation I have states that the final upgrade to the CPA2 occurred at serial number 22,000 as well. My experience however was that Jobo started making changes to the circuitry prior to the 22,000 serial. They added and subtracted components before the motors were changed altogether. So some machines might have a new style transformer but lack the new style motor. There are other items as well, bridge rectifiers and relays that were changed. So it wasn't just hey we need to change all this stuff at once. Its was more like trial and error testing to get to the point the new motors were compatible. Most likely it was strengthening the circuit for Expert drum use and then once they got there decided a newer motor would be the answer. The only version of the motor that used a "Metric" hex screw was the new style motor. Which I can get by the way.


Does that also apply to the CPA2? The main cog on mine has a slotted screw holding it.

[koh303]

CPA2 serial numbers are slightly different the CPP2 but are generally the same idea for the upgrade\production runs.
The Hex screw means that the motor is of the latest type, with a conical shaft (same as used in ATL machines).
The slotted screw can be one of three motor generations.

Greg is correct, and the older motors will struggle more with Expert drums, and eventually kick the bucket (motor\DC board, or both). This does not mean that it will happen tomorrow, and you will have some signs of slow down\over heating before it dies, at which time a new motor can be installed (older version is still available) or the motor can be rebuilt from the core to give several hundred hours more of life (this can also be repeated).

Either way - you can load up to 6 sheets per 2509 reel. The retaining panels are a later addition that some user like, others never bother, they help prevent the sheets from unloading from the reel during rotation (rarely happens anyways).
The only time you might want to load less then 6 plates, is if the total minimum amount of chemistry needed for your process is larger then the max allowed by the machine (say 1L for example), usually happens with BW that is highly diluted. You will then need to calculate the max capacity of the developer and load accordingly. This is never and issue with C-41\E-6 as the chemistry amounts are minor, as well as most straight forward BW devs such as D-76.

My bottom line was - less posting - more developing. The system is pretty much bullet proof if you follow the instructions (available online). You should get going and post again if you run in to any issues... :)
Good luck.

[mcherry]

That's a shame, I would have liked to have used an expert drum. But that's ok, I kind of got this on a whim as a a friend only wanted $200 for the whole kit. I guess if it breaks down, and I really like it, I can either get another one (and still have usable components from this purchase) or upgrade this unit. Greg, where are you located and how much does it cost to replace the motor?

Koh, thanks for the input. I'm going to try six and evaluate the negs. My color chemistry wont arrive until next week, so I'll try some B&W in the meantime.

[koh303]

Without stepping on Gregs tows - I am located in Boston MA, and do upgrades, repairs and service for Jobo machines

[Greg Blank]

Am Not worried about toe steppers, I am always interested in working with fellow techs, "Koh" do you have any sort of documented experience with the machines? Would say; a mutual friend in Germany attest you have done successful repairs of Jobos? I am interested in hearing more so feel free to PM me. I think one of the biggest things I fought having been through the hardest point in Jobo history was finding other qualified repair people that were still doing repairs. I think I know who you are so
my door is open.


Without stepping on Gregs tows - I am located in Boston MA, and do upgrades, repairs and service for Jobo machines (i stock spares, drums reels and machines...).
Feel free to PM me if you need any other help (you can check out my still under construction website at www.catlabs.info, or check my blog at processorparts.blogspot.com).

[Greg Blank]

Like Koh says, I would not feel compelled to upgrade at least for the time being, you are just starting out and if the reels give you good results then stick with them. I am located in Maryland. The upgrade may cost more than some folks are offering newer CPP's for closer to the 22,000 serial between 22,500 and 22,000 - before upgrading I might see if I could get one of those for less than $1,700.

[mcherry]

Sounds good guys. So what you're saying it it would cost $1,700 to upgrade the motor, so I might as well buy another one? Well, at least I figure I got a good deal on this one at $250. If it dies in six months and I love it, I'll buy a new one (or get this one upgraded). If I don't use it much and it dies, then no harm no foul.

[Greg Blank]

For someone that required all boards replaced with a new motor perhaps closer to that figure than further away. When I do upgrades I offer a free evaluation and estimate of repair - so depending serial number and work involved maybe less. Just by experience someone that feels thier machine is worth that much probably has done some research and realizes that if the machine conks out you "WILL" be P.O'd. Most of these CPP2's originally cost a lot more than 500 so the people selling them for 500 or less either do not care, have no clue or need 500 quickly and figure you won't complain if it dies suddenly.


Sounds good guys. So what you're saying it it would cost $1,700 to upgrade the motor, so I might as well buy another one? Well, at least I figure I got a good deal on this one at $250. If it dies in six months and I love it, I'll buy a new one (or get this one upgraded). If I don't use it much and it dies, then no harm no foul.