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Kevin J. Kolosky
23-Jul-2012, 16:36
What is the current best bang for the buck in lightweight tripods. I would think that there are many companies now making the carbon fiber tripods such that there is a little competition in that market.
I know the name Gitzo, but are there any other good carbon fiber tripods out there for reasonable money that will stand up to the weight of a Sinar P2 and lens.

adam satushek
23-Jul-2012, 18:39
I don't mean to seem rude, so sorry if is sounds that way....but I kind of fail to understand the need for a light ripod when your lugging a P2. I guess I feel that a camera that nice and heavy pairs best with a big, sturdy, and heavy tripod. I'm a big fan of Gitzo 4 and 5 series aluminum, especially the older ones made in France. They can be affordable when found used.

Anyway, just my opinions, I'm sure others will disagree and offer some good light weight solutions.

Best of luck!

mandoman7
23-Jul-2012, 21:53
Feisol is popular with a lot of people on this forum.

Kevin J. Kolosky
23-Jul-2012, 22:57
I don't mean to seem rude, so sorry if is sounds that way....but I kind of fail to understand the need for a light ripod when your lugging a P2. I guess I feel that a camera that nice and heavy pairs best with a big, sturdy, and heavy tripod. I'm a big fan of Gitzo 4 and 5 series aluminum, especially the older ones made in France. They can be affordable when found used.

Anyway, just my opinions, I'm sure others will disagree and offer some good light weight solutions.


Best of luck!


I don't think that was rude at all.
I want it as an all around tripod so that I can use the P2 on it when needed, but when I have to walk more than a block I take the Zone VI with me, and if its more than a few blocks I take the Hasselblad 503!

Jim Andrada
23-Jul-2012, 23:44
You might take a look at video tripods as well - just the legs, as a video head is designed for smooth movement and can be quite pricey. The legs typically accommodate a leveling half ball arrangement and a pan/tilt head mounts easily. Libec makes some moderately priced units. I use one with my 8 x 10 Linhof and it is adequately stiff.

E. von Hoegh
24-Jul-2012, 06:34
Tiltall.

SergeiR
24-Jul-2012, 07:26
I have Gitzo 3541 XLS and it can hold my 4x5s and 8x10 easily with Acratech head. Not as lightweight as some others, but i know i can hang my rucksack on it, and put camera on, and it will still wont wobble (even though it is rated at 16 kilo ).
Got it for about 400$ from B&H.

My only with that it would work with 8x10 head from Tiffen that i had to buy S&D tripod for ;( (its heavy but its uber sturdy and got air cushion..), but its not going to happen i think.. :(

vinny
24-Jul-2012, 08:51
used gitzo 1325, they stopped making them and switched to 6x carbon fiber $$$$$ right after I bought mine.

Leonard Evens
24-Jul-2012, 09:36
I used an old Tiltall Pro for many years, It was sturdy and easily supported my Toho FC-45X, which only weighs about 4 lbs with lens. Recently I got a Calumet 8144 carbon fiber tripod with an Induro PHQ Panhead. The combination weighs about 5 lbs and the head allows all sorts of movements. It cost about $700-$800, a lot less than a Gitzo, and it more than meets my needs. It works even with my panoramic head, with which I can make two to three exposures to stitch together.

Jeff Keller
24-Jul-2012, 11:46
My experience has been that the best bang for the buck is the tripod that will do everthing I want it to. I bought too many tripods & heads that weren't quite sturdy enough. A long focal length (and heavy) lens on your Hasselblad 503 could be pretty demanding on your tripod. I would get something at least as sturdy as a Gitzo 3 series. The weight savings of a carbon fiber tripod is worth the cost if you do much walking ... you'll probably carry more other stuff in your bag eliminating any real total weigh savings so the advantage of the lighter tripod is when you're carrying it almost ready to use: over shoulder or in hand with your arm about to fall off...

Jeff Keller

Drew Wiley
24-Jul-2012, 12:48
If you're trying to save real weight you should pick up a set of Sinar F front and rear standards. It will take a very stiff tripod to support the P in the field. Either Gitzo or
Feisol will have suitable carbon models - but these will be near the top end of their price
range in either case. I strongly recommend the optional spike feet too.

David R Munson
24-Jul-2012, 13:50
Tiltall.

For a P2? Absolutely not.

OP: as others have noted, for the P3 something like a series-3 Gitzo or its equivalent is going to be what you want, though Drew's suggestion of lightening up the camera with some F1/F2 standards would be a good choice for making the camera more manageable in the field. For carbon fiber, your best bet for a good value will probably be an Induro. They're good tripods and notably less spendy than Gitzo. That said, if you're open to alloy tripods, there are a lot more used Gitzos and such coming on the market now that everyone's transitioning over to carbon fiber. In the last year, I picked up a Series 2 and a Series 3 Gitzo alloy tripod, each for about half of what I saw the same tripods selling for maybe five years ago. Manfrottos are even cheaper used. Lots of excellent choices out there.

E. von Hoegh
24-Jul-2012, 14:16
For a P2? Absolutely not.

OP: as others have noted, for the P3 something like a series-3 Gitzo or its equivalent is going to be what you want, though Drew's suggestion of lightening up the camera with some F1/F2 standards would be a good choice for making the camera more manageable in the field. For carbon fiber, your best bet for a good value will probably be an Induro. They're good tripods and notably less spendy than Gitzo. That said, if you're open to alloy tripods, there are a lot more used Gitzos and such coming on the market now that everyone's transitioning over to carbon fiber. In the last year, I picked up a Series 2 and a Series 3 Gitzo alloy tripod, each for about half of what I saw the same tripods selling for maybe five years ago. Manfrottos are even cheaper used. Lots of excellent choices out there.

It was a joke. I'm always pushing the old Tiltalls. I know the OP wants carbon fiber, and that the P2 is a big, heavy, 8x10 monster.

David R Munson
24-Jul-2012, 15:58
Ah, well I apologize for not catching the joke. Woke up grumpy and taking things too literally today. :)

Peter De Smidt
24-Jul-2012, 16:35
I used a Sinar P2 for many years, including in the field. I mainly used a Sinar Pan/Tilt head on a Gitzo series 5 aluminum pod. With a P2, you really should use the Sinar head. Imo, a series 3 gitzo, while a great tripod, is not ideal for a P2. So, why not get two pods? First, get an older series 5 Gitzo (or similar) and a Sinar pan/tilt head. Get a lighter pod and head for farther afield. If you shop wisely, this could come in for less money than a large carbon fiber pod.

georgl
25-Jul-2012, 00:09
You either have to compromise weight or cost when stability is a given aspect (in large format photography it always is). A wooden Berlebach or Ries is not too expensive but heavy and cumbersome. If you prefer metal (I do) I would take a used Gitzo 5 - even after decades it only needs a minor overhaul. If cost doesn't matter get a new Gitzo or RRS carbon, I've decided to go with the RRS TVC-33. Very important is the lack of the middle column -it decreases height and adds stability.
I don't care much about the Taiwanese and Chinese copies

E. von Hoegh
25-Jul-2012, 06:37
Ah, well I apologize for not catching the joke. Woke up grumpy and taking things too literally today. :)

No apologies needed. It wasn't a very good joke.

Bill_1856
25-Jul-2012, 07:27
There are LINHOF twin shank tripods on ebay fairly often. They were closed out several years ago at incredibly low prices, and are often quite inexpensive (although lots of gouging, too). Aluminium, not carbon fiber, and weighs less than 8#. Suitable for Deardorff and Kodak 8x10s, but I wouldn't use it for a Green Monster.

Len Middleton
25-Jul-2012, 07:45
There are LINHOF twin shank tripods ..., but I wouldn't use it for a Green Monster.

+1

Kevin J. Kolosky
25-Jul-2012, 16:55
If you're trying to save real weight you should pick up a set of Sinar F front and rear standards. It will take a very stiff tripod to support the P in the field. Either Gitzo or
Feisol will have suitable carbon models - but these will be near the top end of their price
range in either case. I strongly recommend the optional spike feet too.

As I mentioned, if I have to walk a bit I take the Zone VI camera.

I wonder if a person could purchase carbon fiber tubes and rework some parts of aluminum tripods with them. I don't understand how some of these tripods can cost so much. They are made out of carbon fiber, not gold.

Peter De Smidt
25-Jul-2012, 19:37
One of the most important parts of a tripod are the joints. Replacing tubes in a manner that doesn't compromise stability or usability wouldn't be an easy task.

Bill Burk
25-Jul-2012, 20:46
Tiltall.

My right shoulder just felt a sharp memory pang. I still get those. It's been 30 years since I dared carry the 5 3/4 pounds Star-D backpacking. Even with water bottles, fuel bottles, stoves, tents frying pan and beer on the left side, still the right side was heavier and dug into my shoulder.

Never one time I regretted having it with me though.

E. von Hoegh
26-Jul-2012, 06:59
My right shoulder just felt a sharp memory pang. I still get those. It's been 30 years since I dared carry the 5 3/4 pounds Star-D backpacking. Even with water bottles, fuel bottles, stoves, tents frying pan and beer on the left side, still the right side was heavier and dug into my shoulder.

Never one time I regretted having it with me though.

That's about how long I've been using my old Marchioni. Strangely, I've never pinched my fingers, or had the other troubles folks mention. I wouldn't have any other tripod for my 4x5 and smaller cameras.

rdenney
26-Jul-2012, 08:47
It was a joke. I'm always pushing the old Tiltalls. I know the OP wants carbon fiber, and that the P2 is a big, heavy, 8x10 monster.

It was funny, too. I'm amused by the recommendation of Tiltall tripods for everything. But the real problem with a Tiltall for use with a Sinar is that the Tiltall head is integral with the legs, and by far the best way to mount a Sinar onto tripod legs is using the Sinar tilt-head.

I've looked at carbon tripods, and so far have not found one that seemed rigid enough for a big, top-heavy monorail view camera. I think if I wanted a "composite" rather than aluminum, I would choose "nature's composite"--wood.

Rick "who owns six tripods in three different sizes, including one with carbon-composite legs (for roll-film cameras only)" Denney

E. von Hoegh
26-Jul-2012, 08:53
I've looked at carbon tripods, and so far have not found one that seemed rigid enough for a big, top-heavy monorail view camera. I think if I wanted a "composite" rather than aluminum, I would choose "nature's composite"--wood.


I chose wood, too, for the 8x10. A Camera Equipment Co. Pro Junior as mentioned in a recent thread. Carbon fiber, for all it's (real and purported) advantages is a material I've found tolerable in one application only - subwoofer driver cones.

Kevin J. Kolosky
26-Jul-2012, 09:00
"Carbon fiber, for all it's (real and purported) advantages is a material I've found tolerable in one application only - subwoofer driver cones."

My, MY! Which carbon fiber tripods did you try that you didn't like?

Bob Salomon
26-Jul-2012, 09:01
There are LINHOF twin shank tripods on ebay fairly often. They were closed out several years ago at incredibly low prices, and are often quite inexpensive (although lots of gouging, too). Aluminium, not carbon fiber, and weighs less than 8#. Suitable for Deardorff and Kodak 8x10s, but I wouldn't use it for a Green Monster.
Sorry Bill but they are current tripods. Not close outs.

E. von Hoegh
26-Jul-2012, 09:04
"Carbon fiber, for all it's (real and purported) advantages is a material I've found tolerable in one application only - subwoofer driver cones."

My, MY! Which carbon fiber tripods did you try that you didn't like?

I didn't try any outside a store. They're far too expensive, they trade rigidity for lightness, and I just don't like carbon fiber. Besides, I have the tripods I need, already.

tgtaylor
26-Jul-2012, 09:32
I'm not familiar with the 8x10 Sinar P2 but I am certain that it weighs about the same as my Toyo 8x10 G which is ~ 17.8 lbs without the lens. Add another 3 lbs for a 360mm Symmar-S for about 21 lbs with the camera set up to take a shot. Although I have a Gitzo series 3 carbon fiber tripod (G1348) which I'm sure will hold the camera I wouldn't think of actually using it with that camera. A series 5 with the G1575M head is perfect:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=75992&d=1340474150

IMO you need 2 tripod blocks if you want a rock-solid setup.

Thomas

Kevin J. Kolosky
26-Jul-2012, 11:28
I don't have the 8 x 10 P2. Just the 4 x 5 one. (although I would like to have the 8 x 10).

Thomas that case you have there looks great. Did that come with that camera or is that something you purchased to fit the camera.

E. von Hoegh
26-Jul-2012, 11:47
I don't have the 8 x 10 P2. Just the 4 x 5 one. (although I would like to have the 8 x 10).

Thomas that case you have there looks great. Did that come with that camera or is that something you purchased to fit the camera.

You have the 4x5? Then the Tiltall will work! And you stand to save about eight hundred bucks. (smiling smiley)

toyotadesigner
26-Jul-2012, 12:05
What about a Ries or Berlebach? They are vibration resistant, look great and are sturdy as a rock, even after years of wear, tear, use and abuse. Not too heavy, built for eternity. Don't you think your images deserve the best tripod you can get? IMHO it doesn't make sense to spend a fortune for a 4x5, just to use a weird tripod because you want to save weight...

Peter De Smidt
26-Jul-2012, 12:54
I used a Sinar P, both 4x5 and 8x10, for about 15 years as my main camera. A Tiltall is a very poor choice. A number of heavier leg sets will work well. Big, honk'n wood tripods are great for near the car and in the muck. (I have the large Zone VI. Ries are more expensive and a little more refined.) Series 5 Gitzo's (or similar) are great for use on hard surfaces, and they're more compact to carry than a big wooden pod. The Sinar pan/tilt head is the best choice by far, and they aren't that expensive. I used a Gitzo Rationale series V pan/tilt head for awhile, and while they're great for field cameras, the Sinar pan/tilt is much better for use with a Sinar. Foba also make a similar head, but they're much rarer and more expensive than the Sinar.

tgtaylor
26-Jul-2012, 12:56
I don't have the 8 x 10 P2. Just the 4 x 5 one. (although I would like to have the 8 x 10).

Thomas that case you have there looks great. Did that come with that camera or is that something you purchased to fit the camera.

Hi Kevin,

From some of the posts I thought that you had the 8x10 P2. I have the 4x5 Toyo Robos which is very similar to the 4x5 P2 and weighs in at 12 lbs and for which I bought the Manfrotto 475B tripod and 329 RC4 head. The 8x10 came with the case in the picture and with 2 tripod blocks - its previous owner traveled doing automobiles and used a Gitzo series 5 with the G1575 head with 2 blocks saying that you really needed the 2d block for stability. I agree. Even with the lighter Robos the 2d tripod block makes a substantial improvement in stability.

Thomas

Kevin J. Kolosky
26-Jul-2012, 13:03
I get the sense that a lot of you folks are still relatively young. I am looking for light weight because I am getting relatively old!!!!!

E. von Hoegh
26-Jul-2012, 13:07
I get the sense that a lot of you folks are still relatively young. I am looking for light weight because I am getting relatively old!!!!!

I'll be 52 in a few months. Deardorff V8, lenses, filmholders, CeCo tripod, bits, pieces, lunch, come to 53 to 60 pounds. I go miles back in the woods and a couple thousand feet up. I've had it on Mt. Marcy in the Adirondaks.

rdenney
26-Jul-2012, 13:14
From some of the posts I thought that you had the 8x10 P2. I have the 4x5 Toyo Robos which is very similar to the 4x5 P2 and weighs in at 12 lbs and for which I bought the Manfrotto 475B tripod and 329 RC4 head. The 8x10 came with the case in the picture and with 2 tripod blocks - its previous owner traveled doing automobiles and used a Gitzo series 5 with the G1575 head with 2 blocks saying that you really needed the 2d block for stability. I agree. Even with the lighter Robos the 2d tripod block makes a substantial improvement in stability.

It depends on lens length, of course, but I've never had issues with tripod rigidity using a single block with 4x5, especially if that single block is a Sinar tilt-head, as it should be. There have been days when I didn't take out the camera because of the wind, but that was because of the wind's effect on the subject, not its effect on the camera.

If the tripod head is one of those tall Manfrottos, then that's different. I have several Bogen 3047 heads, a Manfrotto 410, and a Manfrotto 229 (plus an Arca Monoball--the old, big one--but I would never consider a ball-head for a view camera, particularly a monorail). I have used a 3047 and the 229 extensively with my Cambo view camera. They are all quite solid, but not nearly as solid as the Sinar tilt-head, not least because it does not require interposing an unnecessary quick-release system and does not provide movement in roll, which is provided by the way the tripod clamp attaches to the rail.

Sinar cameras need their own head.

I use Bogen 3036 legs with all my bigger cameras, and they have always been solid enough, if bulky and a bit heavy. And they are cheap enough to have one set for each head, with the heads aimed at a particular camera system.

Rick "who has considered the Gitzo carbon legs but found them quite resonant" Denney

Peter De Smidt
26-Jul-2012, 13:19
With a good head and tripod, having a second rail clamp is not all that useful with a Sinar P, ime, for most normal photography. I do have experience with this, as I had the special Sinar bar for two clamps. It does help a bit with really long extensions, but a monopod under the front standard adds significantly more stability. The newer rail clamps, the one with the bracket that goes over the top of the rail, is more stable than the older style, and they're much less likely to shift the rail when the clamp is tightened.

Kevin, what lenses and type of photography are you planing to do?

Kevin J. Kolosky
26-Jul-2012, 13:47
I have a full range of older schneider lenses, some of which I am not in the process of converting to DB so I can use them on the Sinar shutter. My interest in photography now is the so called "natural scene". when I was much younger I did wedding and portrait work as a profession.

Peter De Smidt
26-Jul-2012, 13:53
What's the longest one you're going to use? The Sinar shutter will produce a fair amount of vibration, and so that makes support choices more important. Honestly, I don't think light is the way to go with that camera and shutter. Even with the larger carbon fiber photo pods, the system will be very top heavy. Sure, you could sandbag the legs, but they undermines the goal of light weight.

adam satushek
26-Jul-2012, 14:07
Honestly, I don't think light is the way to go with that camera and shutter. Even with the larger carbon fiber photo pods, the system will be very top heavy. Sure, you could sandbag the legs, but they undermines the goal of light weight.

I totally agree with this, Sinars are nice on really heavy tripods. I use my F's (4x5 and 8x10) on an aluminum Gitzo 1504....which weighs about 20lbs with its leveling base and Sinar head. I have not had any tripod stability issues. And the thing gets my camera 10 feet in the air without a column...which is awesome.

I think the suggestion for 2 tripods is a good one. A lighter CF one for your lighter cameras, and something like an old Gitzo tele-studex series 5 giant for the sinar.

It would be nice to have one tripod to do it all, but it seems to me like the compromises would not be worth it.