Protecting an archival pigmented ink print

[Ken Allen]

I'm printing with canon and epson printers making exhibit prints for others. Clients always ask how people are displaying their prints. I always recommend framing behind plexi or glass, but that is often out of the budget. I'd love to know what others are doing to protect their digital prints while on exhibit (I use clearbags for protecting prints in storage).
How do you finish your displayed inkjet prints?
1. Traditional framing
2. Plexi-face mounting
3. Lamination
4. Spray coating aerosol can
5. Spray coating pro sprayer
6. other?

[jon.oman]

I would like some thoughts on this as well. What are people doing?

[Bruce Watson]

Library of Congress method. (http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/mat.html)

[bob carnie]

As Bruce points out.. Glass or plexi . I would only consider a laminate or spray for commercial purposes.. which we do with laminates and face to plexi.

[Lenny Eiger]

I will pass along one trick. We have a local distributor here in CA, that supplies a lot of the local frame shops. You can buy your own mat board and have a frame shop cut it for you - for only a cutting fee. It's much, much cheaper.... (Or you can get a college kid to do it if you know one.)

The last time I got a piece of the museum glass from the frame shop, I paid a fortune for it. I went back to the distributor, and it turns out they sold glass as well. The frame shop charged me a 500% markup! If you know a distributor, you can get glass at about 50-60 a sheet for the best museum glass. Very different from the $250 the frame shop wanted. One needs a sales tax number, but that's pretty easy.

The company I used was called Hankins and Koppel, which was bought by http://www.deltahkinc.com/ I haven't ordered from them since the change, so I don't know what they are doing these days.

Don't get soaked!

Lenny

[bob carnie]

FYI in Canada

Museum Glass 40 inch x 60 inch $250 per sheet.
Claryl Glass AR 40 inch x 60 inch $125

We bring in case lots at a time.. these are hard costs and we do not mark up the client over regular glass, they just pay the difference for the better glass.
Our framer prefers Claryl over Museum. I prefer Museum and use it for my personal work, the image looks as if there is nothing in front of it.

[Lenny Eiger]

FYI in Canada

Museum Glass 40 inch x 60 inch $250 per sheet.
Claryl Glass AR 40 inch x 60 inch $125


Glass I was buying was 24x36. Haven't priced it in a while... so I won't quote anything. Still, one 40x60 is 4 20x30's so I think one could see that the price is a little lower than a regular framers.....

Lenny

[Peter De Smidt]

According to this distributor, Claryl has gone out of business: http://www.warehouseframingsupply.com/news/claryl-glass/

[photobymike]

When i frame prints for forever viewing archival. I use glass on the front and plexi or lexon on the back..... then i take duct tape (foil type) and sandwich the matted print between glass and lexon plexi and seal with tape. I trim with a knife and strait edge, then mount in frame. It makes an air tight seal. I use clamps to compress the air out of the sandwich by pushing on the middle of the sandwich then seal the rest of the way with metal tape. i use special claps to hold the sandwich together while taping. You really need to see the process but it works really well

[bob carnie]

Thats news to me, we purchase this glass this month, I will check this out with our supplier.
thanks for the heads up.

According to this distributor, Claryl has gone out of business: http://www.warehouseframingsupply.com/news/claryl-glass/

[Lenny Eiger]

Yes Lennie, you can get and do this yourself. You won't have the overhead a custom frame shop has. When you chip or scratch the surface of the glass and can't use it, you lose a sheet. When you discover the coating has defects or the glass has bubbles you can't use it. Museum Glass has these problems and they raise the cost per sheet as one has to get the maker to replace the defective glass which eats time and money both. If you think you will get the full sheets and cut to size with all being perfect... good luck with that one.

A good mat cutter is worth the cost if you do much framing. Fletcher, C&H, KeenKut or Chronomat(my personal favorite - and made in the USA) are all much better than anything Logan makes.

Unless you are framing Carbon prints and want the relief or surface to be open to close inspection you frame and put the print behind glass. Museum glass if you care about it looking as good as possible without the green color of plate glass and reflections killing the print.

Bainbridge Alpharag Artcare mat boards provide active protection to the artwork from atmospheric pollutants and even outgassing from the print or frame. (You do use metallic tapes on the Rabbit for sealing purposes if you use wood frames, right?)

If you are looking for a "good deal" from your custom framer and it is based only on price you most likely won't get it without doing a fair amount of business with them. Why would they discount everything for someone who is not going to provide the profit margin needed to stay in business?
Dakotah,
I do actually do most of this, tho' I haven't graduated to metallic tape as yet.... My favorite frames have been the ones I made myself, from maple or even spalted maple. (Unfortunately, they take a very long time to make.) I had my framer cut my glass, and cut my mats. I am happy to pay a fee to keep them in business. However, I think the fee should be reasonable. A 500% markup on glass isn't reasonable to me.

Generally when I decide to do business with someone, especially someone local, and I get treated well, am happy with the product/service, I make a point to get them additional customers if I can. I have been on the board of the local arts association for years and could steer people their way. This shop just went out of business, I would say mostly from their attitude.


Lenny

[Bruce Pollock]

What's the difference between 'museum glass' and regular 'glass glass'? Or did I misread the earlier post?

[Jim Andrada]

Aside from the cost I assume.

There are a bunch of different framing glasses - I think Conservation and Museum are most pricey with Museum the most expensive.

I'm not an expert by any means but last time I ordered a framing job we specified the Museum glass after discussion with the framer.

It has great UV protection (as does Conservation Clear) but there seems to be less coloration in the glass and the nature of the reflections is quite different - sort of diffuse and non distracting for the Museum glass. You can tell there's glass in the frame but you can't really see anything reflected in it - maybe a few diffuse highlights. Colors seem to have more snap and richer appearance, at least to my eye. It isn't the fuzzy sort thing you get with a non-glare glass at all.

For an 8 x 10 print mounted with about 2 inches all around the Museum glass added $40 to the bill compared to the Conservation Clear.

If by glass glass you meant what the hardware store sells, it's awful - I wouldn't even think of using it. Striations, non-uniform refraction, - awful stuff.

[uphereinmytree]

My approach is to use cheap glass for large prints on display. If someone buys one, then I could offer them an upgrade in glass, but only the most discriminating buyers will balk over the glass. I also display without glass especially with smaller prints. If it's a digital print you could print it again exactly the same way. A darkroom print is a bit different story. The best glass is too highly marked up. There is a difference between a frame shop staying in business and making a huge profit off of me. I do all my own work matting, framing, glass cutting, even custom 16 ply cotton rag mats at 20x30 etc. After all it is MY work and not a collaborative effort. Most importantly, none of it is difficult!

[Ken Allen]

I guess my situation is different that many of you. I print for photographers and artists and even the ones with a decent amount of resources sometimes can't afford the beautiful custom frames that you typically find in the best galleries and museums. Buying glazing through one of my distributors does not change the fact the a custom frame job is expensive. I've framed my own work for decades and I would not try to do the work that the good custom framers do.
SO, my artists pick and choose when they will do custom framing and when they will choose another method to produce an exhibit. Commercial laminates are easy, but they have been know to shrink or de-laminate, or if you scratch the laminate you can't remove it. I have seen commercial laminates on artwork in major museums... and this still confounds me. Some artists have decided to use it.
I like the idea of a high quality spray lacquer (Lascaux) or a poly from Clearshield. It will not de-laminate. And I like to think if there is a scratch it might be able to be repaired with a local buff and spray. But the space requirement for a professional spray booth is a challenge because I'm located in NY City/Brooklyn.
That's why I posed the question to see how many people are going through the effort to pursue spraying paper prints. Hanging them without protection is a problem, because it was not cheap to get the print on the wall. Are there any other people that are printing professionally that would care to chime in?

[bob carnie]

Many commercial labs ,, wedding labs have been spraying for years... looks great for a couple of years then attacks the print.. maybe there is a current version that does not harm the photograph or ink print but I am not aware of one.
I have sprayed big prints in a booth and its no fun, lots of photographers are using thick resin to protect their work.. looks great but I have the same misgivings about its longevity.

[Ken Allen]

Many commercial labs ,, wedding labs have been spraying for years... looks great for a couple of years then attacks the print.. maybe there is a current version that does not harm the photograph or ink print but I am not aware of one.
I have sprayed big prints in a booth and its no fun, lots of photographers are using thick resin to protect their work.. looks great but I have the same misgivings about its longevity.

True. I'm very familiar with the old lacquer on a c-print process, I also was not impressed. A pigment ink print from the modern aqueous printers from Canon and Epson is different than a c-print. In our test's spraying is the most promising to add a layer of protection. Our challenge is going from testing to production requires space and equipment.

[Ian Gordon Bilson]

Has anyone considered " Renaissance Wax "?
Plenty of information available on the World-Wide-Wait..

[bob carnie]

About a year ago , here or on APUG I am not sure an interesting post on a new material that essentially promoted as liquid glass, this product was to be used on sides of vehicles as a very thin flexible protector that to my thinking would be incredible if re configured for display prints.
Yesterday some of you comments made me think of it... google Nanopools I did not get very far with my search , and it seems this technology has not gotten so far in its world wide launch, maybe you can find something I quickly did not.
We make wall paper***yes wall paper*** for some of our clients using our 60 inch printer and are trying a product called ClearJet Clear coating.. seems to work very well for our
end purpose of protecting our prints... but I am very leery of any solvent base UV Protective Coating . this is put on with a brush and roller.

the liguid glass really interested me as we get asked every day to face to plexi and even in Toronto the rent and space issues create a problem for us to allocate 1000 sq ft for a ISOLATED CLEAN room that is justifiably required to do this type of work day in day out.
This glass coating that is sprayed on and not intrusive to the image below with archival qualitys would be interesting indeed. I am sure it would not be cheap , but neither is optically clear face mounting tissue and good plexi.





True. I'm very familiar with the old lacquer on a c-print process, I also was not impressed. A pigment ink print from the modern aqueous printers from Canon and Epson is different than a c-print. In our test's spraying is the most promising to add a layer of protection. Our challenge is going from testing to production requires space and equipment.

[Ken Allen]

Has anyone considered " Renaissance Wax "?
Plenty of information available on the World-Wide-Wait..
Yes, we have worked with Renaissance Wax on semigloss prints (Epson Luster, Harmon Baryta, Hahnemuhle Baryta, Ilford Smooth Pearl, etc.) and it does have some nice aspects. It deepens the blacks slightly, reduces gloss differential and bronzing. But it does not offer UV protection and very minor amount of scratch protection. It is not commercially viable on smooth matte papers. I have one artist using it on Somerset velvet with nice effect.

[bob carnie]

Peter is correct.. Our supplier has confirmed Claryl is out of business but they are moving to Art Glass and we are testing it out.

this is from my supplier.. I do not endorse this product as we have just started using it.

I understand you would like some additional information regarding our new product Art Glass.


Bob
Below you will find a link to the companies official website where you will find all details regarding their product.

http://www.groglass.com/en/products/art-glass-for-framing



Art Glass is manufactured in Latvia at the following location

SIA GroGlass
Katlakalna iela 4B
Riga, LV-1073
Latvia




According to this distributor, Claryl has gone out of business: http://www.warehouseframingsupply.com/news/claryl-glass/

[wentbackward]

Here in HK we have terrible problems with humidity. Two seasons, hot'n'wet or cold'n'wet. It's sub-tropical. Canon papers seem to resist emulsion bloom better than Epson but I still don't trust it. If I'm printing then we'll hot-press to remove moisture then cold mount direct to plexiglass, this is a gorgeous way to display.

In all cases we need to dry the print in using a hotpress vacuum press. In cases where glass might not be safe (in commercial work or for homes with kids) we recommend a gloss or matt laminate that is processed in the hotpress. This can be mounted to card and framed or gallery wrapped around MDF. The MDF can itself be framed or mounted raised inside a frame with no glass. The satin matt laminate is thick and really tough. The adhesive can be offered as regular adhesive or with an acid buffer.

If you're printing to a Baryta fibre paper or rag then the paper has a lot of bearing on the final print, traditional framing methods apply.

- Paul

[Frank Petronio]

I'd love to hear more on this, specifically aimed at the smaller, home inkjet sized prints under 13x19 or 16x20... more manageable for most people but still large enough to impress the yokels.

[bob carnie]

If you are face mounting ink matt papers to plexi , how are you getting rid of the isssue of stippling/hase in the shadow areas??

Here in HK we have terrible problems with humidity. Two seasons, hot'n'wet or cold'n'wet. It's sub-tropical. Canon papers seem to resist emulsion bloom better than Epson but I still don't trust it. If I'm printing then we'll hot-press to remove moisture then cold mount direct to plexiglass, this is a gorgeous way to display.

In all cases we need to dry the print in using a hotpress vacuum press. In cases where glass might not be safe (in commercial work or for homes with kids) we recommend a gloss or matt laminate that is processed in the hotpress. This can be mounted to card and framed or gallery wrapped around MDF. The MDF can itself be framed or mounted raised inside a frame with no glass. The satin matt laminate is thick and really tough. The adhesive can be offered as regular adhesive or with an acid buffer.

If you're printing to a Baryta fibre paper or rag then the paper has a lot of bearing on the final print, traditional framing methods apply.

- Paul

[bob carnie]

We do not mark up the museum glass, we take the price of the regular glass and add the difference.. I wish I was getting 5x on framing.


The general recommendation for custom frame pricing is 5x the cost. Many use this with regular float glass. With the greater cost of museum glass many shops do not mark it up nearly as much. Even at a lower markup the amount made from a sale is greater than float glass marked up 5 times - the frame shop makes a decent profit and the client gets a better product.

The shop that marked it up a full 5 times won't get your business again.

A good quality mat cutter, learning to cut glass and do your own framing saves a bit of money and is a skill you will be glad you have through the years.

[bob carnie]

You can build a relationship with a custom shop and order pre made, to your size.
frame shot cuts all materials to size, joins the wood, and backing brace , you do all the assembly at home.
I plan to move north within a couple of years , start a small gallery and printmaking shop and I will use my Toronto location to do just this.


just don't expect to get one off service, look at your yearly needs, standardize your sizes and order in bulk, this will save you bundles and you
get to the satisfaction of putting it all together.


I'd love to hear more on this, specifically aimed at the smaller, home inkjet sized prints under 13x19 or 16x20... more manageable for most people but still large enough to impress the yokels.

[slackercruster]

OP...Don't need spray coating if using for water repellant. Cured ink jet are very waterproof.