Why the resurgence in wet-plate photography?

[Sylvester Graham]

Hello, this is along the lines of my earlier post about vintage lenses, I suppose.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about why wet-plate has exploded recently. It's my understanding that although wet-plate has been in various states of renewal over the past few decades, the past couple of months and years it has really started to take off.

So, do we think it has to do with artistic types jumping ship from one hot trend to the next? Is there a certain age that's more inclined to photograph wet plates than others? Was there an exhibit, website, or article that may have generated publicity that started a landslide?

And, for those who've been keeping track, when did the bubble really start to rise?

[ic-racer]

These things go in cycles. As interest in Platinum wanes, Wet Plate increases in popularity. Eventually people will get bored with that and everyone will be doing giant Daguerreotypes. Then the NY times will run a piece on someone 'still' using 120 rollfilm and that will be the rage...

[Jay DeFehr]

This is not meant as an authoritative analysis, but just idle speculation, so take it for what it's worth. WPC has been around forever, and there have always been practitioners, workshops, occasional press coverage, gallery shows, etc. What's new is social media which makes image sharing/ blogging ridiculously easy. Post a few WPC images on Flickr, or Facebook, and within a few hours they've been seen by thousands of people, within a few days, potentially by millions. That raises awareness. For some percentage awareness becomes curiosity, some smaller percentage are curious enough to give it a go, and the whole thing snowballs. This scenario explains a staggering number of social trends, and maybe the rise in popularity of WPC, too.

[Mark Sawyer]

It's received quite a bit of notice in the popular media and in fine arts circles, and there are many workshops available. It's not terribly expensive or hard to learn, and you don't have to worry about it being discontinued. And as a hand-done alternative process, there's a certain status in saying "I did it myself from scratch..." It has variations, from tintypes to ambrotypes to glass negatives that you can print any way you want. And as each plate is processed immeditely, the gratification is also nearly immediate. (Of course, so is the disappointment...) And it's fun! :)

But the best reason of all... pixies like it! ♥♥♥

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I don't know about pixies, but would estimate that collodion bubble started to rise about 10 years ago, which was when knowledge about collodion--teaching workshops and hosting webforums--started moving away from being in the hands of the civil war reenactors to the Sally Mann crowd.

[cosmicexplosion]

if you look at a good tintype there is incredibly fine detail, finer than paper as it is on a smooth surface and made of silver nitrate, i am amazed at how smooth and sharp it is. in images of glass cups or metal tea pots for example, things with curves. i dont bother with glass plates as i like the unique quality of tin type, as well as its durability. very hard to break a piece of tin in the field.

they are somewhat like painting in the sense that there is often a random element and you can play with that.

i think they can look amazing. they often have a sparkly silver glitter effect where the nitrate has built up in the thick collidion at the bottom.

they are very hands on as well as fairly instant, as you have to develop strait away, you have an image in under 15 min. so a certain gratification.

i love watching the images appear in the water, especially of portraits as the face goes black and then out of the blackness a face appears, as the neg turns pos.

it has a surface texture that is unique to wet plate, as well as a certain depth, and hey, a certain look!

[Jay DeFehr]

I agree with all the descriptions of the unique qualities and charms of the process, but those have existed as long as the process has, and don't explain the sudden surge in interest. Jason's timeline of ten years ago coincides fairly well with the rise of social networking.

[cosmicexplosion]

yeah fair call... i stumbled across it on the web and fell in love with the look. i think it was mainly the deep blacks and blurr, as well as the grungy gothic tom waits ancient potal to other lost worlds thing, otherwise known as the computer..i think you might be right Jay.

[jcoldslabs]

I would add an addendum to Jay's observation: the rise of wet plate, as well as other "alternative" processes, also has to do with push-back against the ascendancy of digital image making. A wet plate photograph is integral to the physical, hand-made object itself, not separate from it, and therefore is the antithesis of digital. To paraphrase Wendell Berry, "If it's a new idea to make a digital photograph, it's a newer idea not to."

There are many analog processes, from vinyl albums to vintage synthesizers, that are seeing a resurgence in the face of the digital revolution. Add that to the social media phenomena and I think you have the bulk of your answer. I myself became aware of WPC as something that I could actually do at home--as opposed to an antique process practiced only by a handful of expert craftsmen--because of its exposure (no pun intended) on the Web.

Jonathan

[cosmicexplosion]

yeah i think your right jonathan, the more humans get pushed into homogenisation, the more they will push back and be unique, at least thats what i hope.

Ironically, i think its the social media, blogs, etc that expose people to these new old things and why its cool or rebellious or better or more unique or____ to do them, thus given them momentum.

if computers were not around, and flicker, and even website are social media, then i would not have picked up an 8x10 or wet plate.

originally i bought a medium format because i thought they were the best image makers, then cruising round cyber space, i came across 8x10, sold my medium format, and the rest is history!

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

...I myself became aware of WPC as something that I could actually do at home--as opposed to an antique process practiced only by a handful of expert craftsmen...

Social media may well be one of the main factors, especially if we include forum like this one. I think Bob Szabo's Reenactor's Wet Plate Forum (http://www.cwreenactors.com/phorum/list.php?1) was key in getting information out to a new generation of practitioners. However, I also agree that the ease and affordability of wet plate has a lot to do with its recent successes in comparison to other "antique processes." I am one of a handful of people who teach Daguerreotypy, an "antique process" which has many of the charms of collodion but has never taken off like wet plate, and probably never will. This is a much more difficult and expensive process (and always was), and is certainly "practiced only by a handful of expert craftsmen."

[SergeiR]

Dunno about affordability..

Kit for 60-70 CWP is about 330$ + need actual plates, Same amount of sheet film - about 200-250$.. So may be compared to Daguerrotype.. yes.. To film - nope.

Not saying its bad. I would love to learn and being able to do them (DT too) , but i shoot most of my stuff away from darkroom, so its a bit troublesome for me.

[Jay DeFehr]

Jonathan,

You make an excellent point about a potential basis for the attraction, and I think it applies to all forms of chemical imaging, to a greater or lesser degree.

Jason,

There's a young man in Seattle named Daniel Carillo, who is making Daguerreotypes. He's just begun, and I plan to visit his studio within the next week to see his plates. Carillo is best known for his WPC work -- mostly portraits of local artists. I'm looking forward to meeting him and seeing his work in person.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vaporstew/7586681952/in/photostream/

[cyrus]

Personally, I started getting interested in WPC for the simple reason that I was getting concerned about the continued availablity of LF film and wanted to be able to continue non-digital photography, which limited me to either dryplate or wetplate. The fact that you don't have to use cyanide or mercury etc. probably contributes to WPC's popularity over dags. I'm also concerned about the continued availablity of sensitized gel for other processes like photogravure

I think the biggest explanation is as a backlash to digital as others have mentioned.

[dwross]

For a while now I've been curious about why dry plate photography hasn't gained more ground. It's never had a "Sally Mann" effect, and without a doubt WPC has the whole instant photography thing going for it. It looks cool. These are by no means trivial reasons for embracing a process, but dry plate photography is easier on every front. Safer, too. Cheaper. The emulsion sensitivity can be far, far faster. There's still a window open for anyone to really put their own mark on a photographic process.

Without going too far off topic, I'd love to hear other people's opinions. Why not dry plate photography or handmade film? I'm a dry plate photographer and I'm in the process of trying to decide whether I'll put resources into promoting workshops, or if I'll just cocoon down into my own work. Input from the folks on this forum, for whom I have infinite respect, would be a great favor. Thanks in advance to anyone who would care to offer their opinions.

d

[tgtaylor]

I seriously doubt that the current interest in wet-plate photography, or any of the alternative processes for that matter, is a result of “backlash” against digital photography. The booming interest in alternative processes is more likely the result of a surge of interest in photography among the public in general and the natural curiosity of the more serious of those to search more deeply into the history of photography and have the desire to reproduce the results obtained by past generations of photographers. At least that is how I became interested in the alternative processes

[MDR]

Diane most good dry plate formulas seem way more complicated than their wetplate counterpart which seem very easy to mix. Your kitchen emulsion and Kevin Kleins formula are the exceptions. Don't Cocoon yourself I love your homepage and thank you for your efforts in promoting dry plate photography.

One of the things that draws people to the wp is their slowness everything takes time furthermore ambrotypes do have a very different look to dryplates even when used in the form of ambrotypes. Another thing is the romance/mystique that surrounds the Wetplate, it's a genuine 19th century process whereas Dryplate is always badmouthed as beeing to close to modern film. Especially in the US the Wetplate movement seems to be very close to the civil war reenactment crowd and if you like the time you choose the correct tool in this case wetplate.

Wish you the best of luck for your future workshops
Dominik

[jcoldslabs]

For a while now I've been curious about why dry plate photography hasn't gained more ground....dry plate photography is easier on every front.

I may be misinformed, but the reading I have done on dry plate--which is something I'd love to try--makes it seem far more complicated and exacting than wet plate, especially the emulsion drying process. Doesn't this involve a perfectly level piece of marble and an enclosed dust-free space in which to cure the plates? Wet plate seems to have more slop tolerance built into the process. If you want perfect looking plates then perhaps not, but I have seen a wide range of WPC images ranging from smooth and flawless to the haphazard, Sally Mann-style. In other words, mastery of dry plate appears more difficult, or at least that is my impression.

If you would like to disabuse me of the above notions, please do!

Jonathan

P.S. A workshop sounds like a great idea, and you're close enough for me to attend.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I seriously doubt that the current interest in ... any of the alternative processes... is a result of “backlash” against digital photography...

My anecdotal data--from in-depth conversations with the 100+ students I have taught over the past six years--suggests that this indeed is the case; most are not satisfied with digital, and seek a more hands-on approach. I don't mean to say they are Luddites, most bring digital cameras with them to the workshops, and the professionals all use digital capture, but many are seeking something else for personal expression.


For a while now I've been curious about why dry plate photography hasn't gained more ground...

Denise, we can also ask why so few of the collodion cult make wet-plate negatives, and the answer is the same, it lacks instant gratification and wow-factor of watching it pop from negative to positive. In any case, I would love to take a workshop.

[Jimi]

I've been thinking about this wet/dry plate thing during the last few days... and I guess the big turn-off is the seemingly complicated process from a bunch of silver nitrate up to the dry plate, ready for exposure. Like just finding (or making) the burette, it entailed details (on APUG) about using a special sort of protection glasses when bending a glass tube over a burner...

If it would be possible to break down even more, getting people into just doing the coating (of silver emulsion) on plates and then drying... then I guess you could get some people up and running. Rockaloid dryplate kits. Or whatever have you - to get people on the wagon.

But on the other hand... people are doing Calotypes, which makes collodion and dryplates seem like kindergarten, with the myriad recipes and finicky paper selection, so yes, why? I guess it comes down to not enough critical mass. We need more dudes and dudettes hanging around Facebook and youtube and Flickr, doing things with dryplates/DIY film, showing what you can do and that it is not hard.

[Sylvester Graham]

Wonderful responses.

I do think that, really, the single biggest factor is the internet. Social media included, but mostly the ability for folks all around the world to access obscure information that would be impossible to learn without a close mentor. That being said, the internet has been accessible to most of us since, what 1995? It's my understanding that although wet-plate popped up on folks' radar somewhere circa Sally Mann's "What Remains" and "Deep South," things have really started to pick up lately. I did a few keyword searches with google, and most wet-plate related keywords didn't have enough data to chart until well until 2009. A snapshot of the collodion.com forum from 2011 shows that their membership has doubled in under a year. And I know the B&S is totally swamped with orders for wetplate items. Perhaps we've just reached a tipping point.

I also think that nowadays it is very difficult for someone who isn't exceptionally gifted to feel they have mastery over anything at all. And feeling as if you have autonomy and expertise in something is very important. An entire generation has grown up surrounded by things and processes and ideas they can't fully understand, and could never, ever make or even modify, except for a gifted few. Take for example an Iphone. It gives you entertainment and keeps you connected, and on a superficial level gives you a rush of excitement from the sheer thrill of holding an advanced piece of technology. But, do you really know how it works? Could you design the chips inside, or program the software, or distribute hundreds of millions of them across the world? Unless you're Steve Jobs--no. And I think on a gut level this makes a lot of people nervous and sad. Including me!

Wet-plate is something I can understand. With wet-plate I can be a craftsman--a group of people who pretty much died out a long time ago. And it's something that's almost totally out of the hands of corporations and the ad-machine--at least for now!


http://alexrmilne.com/

[jcoldslabs]

I would guess that young people raised on digital capture and playback devices turn to analog alternatives out of curiosity and a desire for something less perfect, less clean, less ruled by ones and zeroes, less mainstream. The fascination with vinyl albums stems from much the same impulse. Young people listen to LPs as a supplement to their iPods, not in lieu of them. And those not so young who sold off their vinyl albums in the 80s and replaced them with CDs probably now wish they hadn't. (I speak from experience on this!)

There is a trend in the world of electronic music at the moment that echoes the rise of WPC in photography. Analog modular synths (often vintage) are prized not only because they are the opposite of digital instruments--messy, squirrelly, difficult to coax the exact same sound twice from the same set-up--but also because once you have created a complicated patch and found a certain desirable sound there is no way to save the patch configuration unless you draw a diagram of the patch cords and where they go. A chore, to be sure, and an expensive hobby (sound familiar?), but I think a certain dissatisfaction with digital is a phenomenon that reaches across all art forms that have become digitized.

Jonathan


EDIT: Jason, good point about the dearth of contemporary WPC negatives. I have a feeling tintypes and ambrotypes are dominant because, unlike in the past, people now get to have their cake and eat it, too: they create a one-of-a-kind positive image on the spot but also get to scan the result and distribute it widely across the Web. It used to be, of course, that the only people who got to see a tintype were those who saw it in person.

[goamules]

What was that word a few years ago, confluence? Wetplate comes out of the reenactor closet and enters the A) Art environment, B) History lover env, C) DIY film env, and more. At the same time, more promotion is possible because of the web. And people with a lot of collodion energy like Quinn Jacobson have traveled to other countries and started grass roots groups that are now maturing. 23 people gave reasons why they shoot wetplate on the World Wetplate Day site (another reason for it's growth) here:

http://www.wetplateday.org/who-we-are/

[eoghan]

Because its a way to create beautiful art. QED

The Internet helps to get the word out and the availability of workshops has allowed many users to lear the craft quite easily, the materials are also easily purchased online. But nothing beats the experience of seeing your first plate emerge from the fixer, flaws and all.

Eoghan

[Dennis]

I have seen the WPC process done, being the model, and it is very simple. Especially if you consider imperfections to be a serendipitous part of the "art".
WPC does have it's own unique aesthetic properties and there are some people using it who work really well with what WPC does... The creamy look and the high resolution and the surface.
From what I have seen though most people using it are not using it to it's advantage, they are using it because it is a fun and easy process and it impresses people.
I think a lot of photographers justify the "art" of their work with process. When platinum started exploding in the 1980s a lot of photographers started doing it because
if you made a platinum print it was by definition special. You could impress gallery people and buyers just by reverently stating "it is a Platinum print".
In fact back then when I had an exhibition the gallery owners insisted on billing it as a show of "Platinum Prints" and the people attending the show were mostly photographers coming to see platinum prints.
By the time the year 2000 came along platinum printers had become a dime a dozen and the reverence of saying "Platinum Print" was starting to fall flat.
So the people who justify their work by the process needed something else to be special and reverent. I think a lot of those people jumped on WPC.
There are in my opinion a lot of people still trying to make process carry the art of their work.
Regarding the dry plate, I don't think that would appeal to that type photographer so much because it is not a print medium. So you can't show people like you can a platinum print or a WPC. You can only tell people about it. That your special process is something you do at home alone.
Another thing I think that appeals to WPC people is that it scans really well. There are people scanning the original plate and printing it digitally so it isn't such a unique item. I think that loses the
unique qualities of the plate but at least you can sell it multiple times.
Just my opinions and not intended to state some universal truth about every practitioner of alt processes.

[Sylvester Graham]

Oh and also, even though WP users have increased like 1000% or what have you, it would still be interesting to know what percentage of photographers actually practice it. <1%?

[MDR]

Jonathan visit Denise Ross the lightfarm she has several easier Dryplates formulas on her site the simpliest beeing Chris Patton's Seawater Emulsion http://thelightfarm.com/Map/DryPlate/Patton/DryPlatePart.htm Imho this formula takes more time to make than a wetplate but is just as easy/difficult to do.

Denise I am anxiously awaiting TLF #2, good luck with your photography.

Dominik

[dsphotog]

Another factor might be, an abundant supply of lf cameras at bargain prices.

[dwross]

Thanks and more thanks for the opinions and analysis. Beyond the look of WPC, it seems that "easy" is an important value. With dry plates, that's not a cut and dried issue. If you think of silver gelatin emulsion making (negatives and paper) as baking (a common comparison throughout the history of the medium) then you can visualize anything from the simplest shortbread or sourdough to the most complex pastry concoction. The continuum for baking goes from the home baker to small neighborhood bakery to commercial factory. Dry plates, film and paper cover an analogous continuum. The easy end is about as easy as you could ask for. It doesn't have the "perfect" standardization of a factory product, nor should it.

I'm going to be looking for a workshop venue in Portland, Oregon, for next year. I will aim for as easy a recipe as possible, with pointers on how to go to the next level if and when anyone wants.

Thanks again for all the good insights.
******

Dominik,

I have neglected The Light Farm terribly (having too much fun with actual photography.) Cleaning up and connecting details is high on my priority list. I posted the finished version of "TLF #2" on my blog last December, but haven't tied it into the main body yet. It starts here (http://thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgen.py?content=29aDec2011) and goes for four pages with the actual recipe on the last page. Please note that this recipe is about as complex as it gets for the home darkroom artisan. Definitely in the neighborhood bakery range. Also, here's a page on coating: http://thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgen.py?content=03Nov2011.

d

[jnantz]

hi denise

i agree with you ...
making a simple emulsion is not hard
and coating glass is fun ... definitely not
as dangerous as wet plate ... heck, i taught myself
to make emulsion and coat plates as a college student
with no internet/social media &c, just a 1904 photographic annual ...

wet plates have a wow factor, i agree, but i find the dry part to be just as much fun ..

- john

[MDR]

Denise thanks for the link, looking at the image on your linked blog I had an epiphany as to why people prefer the wetplate to the dryplate.
Grain wetplates are grainless and very smooth the blacks and dark greys are almost like chocolate syrup. Syrup comes to mind when looking at ambrotypes, negs seem to be mostly neglected by the wetplate crowd Sally Mann is an exceptions but again her WP works looks very syrupy that's why they work with her Southern series, Syrupy language fits syrupy images.

Dominik

[dwross]

Dominik,

Thanks for the lead-in! That's the beauty of silver gelatin emulsion making. It wasn't the history of photography for over a hundred years for nothing. The simplest/oldest of the dry plate recipes are almost identical to wet plate as far as grain goes. And they are only a little bit faster (about double.) When they first came out, photographers were delighted by the extra speed, but the really big deal was that they could take a bunch of ready-made plates out in the field and bring them back -- whenever -- to develop. I swim around in historical literature and I swear, except for some differences in the cadence of the language, you'd think you were reading about the digital revolution. The onion image here (http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/DryPlate/Recipes/DryPlatePart2a.htm) is a Whole Plate format dry plate and you can't see grain under a microscope.

But, here's the part that takes a while to get used to. We can run decades up the timeline of photography with our handmade materials. When I don't mind putting a big camera on a tripod, and image movement isn't an issue, I make "TLF#1" dry plates. But, when I want/need a faster emulsion, I go to "TLF#2" and sheet or roll film (faster => more grain, just like with commercial film) or the last few months I've been refining and getting to know a new recipe. I've been shooting ASA 100 (summer speed) ortho roll film in 120 cameras, handheld. I generally shoot at 1/125 sec. and f/8. I made the image that's on the home page with that emulsion. I call it "X2Ag" and it's very fine-grained (probably partly T-grain.) It's also a bit complex to make, and I won't be publishing the recipe until I finish site housecleaning.

Anyway, I completely agree with your assessment of the beautiful smoothness of wet collodion emulsions. You can get that with gelatin dry plates, too. But, with silver gelatin, there are many additional options. That's why it's not cut and dried to just say dry plate making is "easy." It is cut and dried to say that the creative potential is almost limitless.

d

[MDR]

Diane,
Friedrich Simony a famous Austrian Alps photographer prefered the tannin dry plate to the gelatine dryplate and his arguments were similar to today's film vs digital debates. It seems the french are right the more it changes the more it stays the same :)

Dominik

[bigdog]

These things go in cycles. ... the NY times will run a piece on someone 'still' using 120 rollfilm and that will be the rage...

Good. I'm ahead of the curve on this one ... :cool: