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welly
16-Jul-2012, 05:40
Hi chaps,

Currently shooting with a Wisner technical field camera 4x5 and a Cambo 8x10. Love shooting with them both but the Wisner, my "daily" camera has a few niggles which I find a bit limiting.

I've just got hold of a Polaroid back and while it fits, just, it only just fits and I'm concerned I might put the camera out of focus when I'm trying to slide the back in or worse, damage the camera. Secondly, and more importantly, I like to shoot wide angle lenses. Currently as wide as 90mm but would like to go wider. My Wisner grumbles about 90mm lenses and so there is chance in hell it'll go any wider. I've tried the pointing it down 45 degrees trick with mixed success but it's not something I would like to have to resort to regularly.

I've no plans to get rid of my Wisner. It's compact, easily fits in my bag with some film, a lens etc. without too much thinking about, weighs very little, looks AWESOME(!) so it's a great go-to camera. But I would like a second 4x5 that might fill my Polaroid and wide angle needs. I had a Sinar F2 which really was fantastic but I found just a bit too bulky for someone who solely uses public transport and so it was left on the shelf a bit too much.

So looking for something moderately transportable, which is happy with wide angle lenses and my Polaroid 550 back (it's quite deep), is moderately happy with longer lenses and has a reasonable range of movements. I think that would do me perfectly!

Any recommendations would be great and if you have a camera of this description up for grabs, even better. We should talk!

Cheers all

Frank Petronio
16-Jul-2012, 05:51
Budget?

Most people are going to point you towards a Chamonix or Ebony as a full Wisner replacement. And they'd be correct.

There are also Walkers and Shen Haos that do not fold and tend to favor wider lenses, they look like nice cameras although not as useful once you go over 150mm (without fancy top hat lens boards and kludges).

Even though I am contrarian and usually suggest an inexpensive but finely-made monorail, unless you really spend the big money on an Arca-Swiss, none of them get significantly smaller than a Sinar. And the Linhof Technika really doesn't get wide angle friendly until you get the $$$ later model with the built in wide angle focusing. So see above....

If you simply want to go wide and use the sheer width to avoid using movements, put a high quality 65mm onto a cheap Crown Graphic body. Worthless for moves but since it will be so wide, would you ever really miss them?

Brian Ellis
16-Jul-2012, 05:58
"Moderately transportable," "happy with wide angle lenses and Polaroid 550 back," "moderately happy with longer lenses," and "reasonable range of movements."

Depending on what you consider "moderate," "longer," and "reasonable," it sounds like you want a camera with roughly a 15" bellows ("moderately happy with longer lenses") that also accepts a bag bellows ("happy with wide angle lenses"), that weighs less than 6 lbs. ("moderately transportable"), that has a Graflex back ("happy with Polaroid 550 back") and that has front rise, fall, tilt and swing and back tilt and swing ("reasonable range of movements"). IOWs you want a Chamonix.

Or possibly a Canham or Ebony if you want to spend more than a couple thousand dollars. If you could get away with a bellows of 12" that can be extended to about 14" with some difficulty and potential instability you could also consider a Shen Hao.There are several different models of each of these cameras, sorry but I don't remember the model numbers, you'll have to check those out yourself.

welly
16-Jul-2012, 06:05
Budget?

Most people are going to point you towards a Chamonix or Ebony as a full Wisner replacement.

There are also Walkers and Shen Haos that do not fold and tend to favor wider lenses, they look like nice cameras although not as useful once you go over 150mm (without fancy top hat lens boards and kludges).

Even though I am contrarian and usually suggest an inexpensive but finely-made monorail, unless you really spend the big money on an Arca-Swiss, none of them get significantly smaller than a Sinar. And the Linhof Technika really doesn't get wide angle friend until you get the $$$ later model with the built in wide angle focusing. So see above....

If you simply want to go wide and use the width to avoid using movements, put a high quality 65mm onto a cheap Crown Graphic body. Worthless for moves but since it will be so wide, would you ever really miss them?

Budget probably doesn't quite stretch as far as an Ebony sadly. A Crown Graphic actually might be ideal. I didn't even think of that as an option. Perhaps I'm missing the flexibility of my old Sinar and grabbing another one of those for "serious" shooting could be what I need, plus a membership at the gym, and my Wisner for day to day shooting. Cheers Frank!

jose angel
16-Jul-2012, 08:49
So looking for something moderately transportable, which is happy with wide angle lenses and my Polaroid 550 back (it's quite deep), is moderately happy with longer lenses and has a reasonable range of movements. I think that would do me perfectly!
And I suspect the new camera will have to satisfy yourself at least at the same level of your Wisner and the F2... it could be even more difficult. If not, it will be abandoned on a shelve, sooner or later.
Cameras like the Canham DLC are capable of everything, but if you`re used to a Wisner, you`ll probably miss a bit of speed and comfort. Also, I think you`d like a rock solid back for the Polas.
The only camera that comes to mind is a Linhoff Technika. Maybe limiting your use to a moderate wide angle lens, with a recessed board you don`t need the latest model.
Anyway, I never used a 550 but a 405, that seems to me quite close (size wise). Isn`t the Wisner capable of such aperture for the holder? Also, cannot you use a recessed lens board for your camera? Personally, a 75mm lens is enough for my needs; with a recessed lens board it`ll work on any 90mm capable camera, (I guess).

Ivan J. Eberle
16-Jul-2012, 15:19
As long as we're talking about 50 year old cameras... you might consider a Meridian 45B. They'll focus on the inner rails with lenses from 47mm to 90mm... Recessed boards for Technikas retail for more than these whole cameras typically sell for in nice shape. (You won't need recessed lens boards or helicals with a Meridian 45B). Downside is that these didn't have a Grafok back, originally, but simple spacers work well for Grafmatics and other slide-in film holders. A bail back wouldn't be difficult to fab. Others have Graflok-adapted them.

scm
16-Jul-2012, 15:36
Personally, I'd talk to Richard Ritter (http://www.lg4mat.net/) about having your existing back modified to more easily handle the Polaroid holder or maybe getting a second back modified with the Graflok-type fittings. It may be that just having a bail (like on the later Zone VI cameras) installed will allow lifting the ground-glass panel enough to slip the P-holder in without disturbing the camera, Richard can install those, as well.

Lachlan 717
16-Jul-2012, 16:09
I might be up in Sydney sometime in the next few weeks, and can probably pack my Shen Hao XPO for you to have a look at.

I use a 72mm with it (using a Sinar bag bellow), and I'm sure that it could go slightly wider.

It can also go out to over 400mm.

Frank Petronio
16-Jul-2012, 17:36
Personally, I'd talk to Richard Ritter (http://www.lg4mat.net/) about having your existing back modified to more easily handle the Polaroid holder or maybe getting a second back modified with the Graflok-type fittings. It may be that just having a bail (like on the later Zone VI cameras) installed will allow lifting the ground-glass panel enough to slip the P-holder in without disturbing the camera, Richard can install those, as well.

None of these cameras is ever going to be "perfect".... If you like the Wisner this sounds like a good idea, you might be able to fabricate it yourself with an inexpensive Graphic or Cambo Graflock back.

Noah A
16-Jul-2012, 19:40
You might consider a used Linhof Technikardan. It'll work with a huge variety of lenses and you can use your wideangles on flat lensboards, which is a pleasure. I have a Master Technika 2000 too, which honestly I use as my main camera, but that's because I don't like to shoot wider than 90mm. If I routinely used 75mm or wider, I'd use the Technikardan. Of course the Technika CAN be used with very wide lenses, the Technikardan just makes it easier if you want movements.

The TK has movements like a monorail but folds relatively small like a field camera. It's also something of an underrated camera, which means it goes for relatively low prices on the used market. You'll need the bag bellows though. It's expensive if purchased new, but it too can be found on the used market.

welly
16-Jul-2012, 20:21
Thanks for the advice guys! Reading back on my earlier requirements, it feels a little like I'm wanting the moon on a stick! I should probably keep the old triple constant in mine - cheap, fast, good - and pick two.

Weight - I can probably just man-up and deal with a slightly heavier camera. At the moment, my main interest is shooting wide and using my polaroid back. The Wisner does have a bail-back but it's just a little tight to fit the Polaroid back comfortably. I have had it working and it does fit, just tightly. I guess I could always remove the back and slide the Polaroid back in to stop any issues of knocking the camera out of focus.

Anyway, there's definitely some ideas for me to think about, thanks very much!

welly
16-Jul-2012, 20:22
I might be up in Sydney sometime in the next few weeks, and can probably pack my Shen Hao XPO for you to have a look at.

I use a 72mm with it (using a Sinar bag bellow), and I'm sure that it could go slightly wider.

It can also go out to over 400mm.

That would be brilliant if you can let me know if/when you're going to be about. The Shen Hao XPO does look amazing and I'd love to check it out.

Cheers!

Lachlan 717
16-Jul-2012, 21:04
That would be brilliant if you can let me know if/when you're going to be about.
Cheers!

Will do. It might be a couple of weeks, though, as I'm off to your old stomping grounds next week (10 days on the South Island).

I'll keep in touch regardless, as I can bring the camera up even if it's just to show you.

Rick Rycroft
17-Jul-2012, 03:42
You can check over my Technikardan if you want. I use it with lenses from 47mm to 450mm. Not sure about how the Polaroid back will fit but we can try it.

Rick

Joseph Dickerson
17-Jul-2012, 09:42
I assume you're aware that Polaroid/Fujiroid is virtually a thing of the past. Current stock sounds like it's all that will ever be available. So, unless you have a large stash in the fridge, this might be a moot point.

As far as the other wants/needs (choose one) you might be just as well off with a Sinar F1/2. About the same weight as your Wisner, much easier to find bits and bobs for, and almost as compact. It would be easy to fabricate a lens board adapter so you could swap lenses between the Wisner and Sinar and have the best of both worlds. :cool:

JD

Joe Smigiel
17-Jul-2012, 21:41
Why don't you just pick up a Cambo 4x5 rear standard, recessed lensboard, and Graflok back along with a 4x5 Cambo bag bellows and either a shorter monorail or short piece of 1x1 aluminum tube? Then you could have both an 8x10 and a 4x5 Cambo to use as desired. The 4x5 solution isn't going to fold more compactly than a field camera, but it still will pack and transport well by removing the bellows, and sliding the standards off the rail. You can probably pick up all that stuff for $125- $150 and be able to use your current lenses and Cambo lensboards as well. You could also add an inexpensive standard bellows to the above to handle the longer lenses with ample extension.

welly
18-Jul-2012, 01:06
Why don't you just pick up a Cambo 4x5 rear standard, recessed lensboard, and Graflok back along with a 4x5 Cambo bag bellows and either a shorter monorail or short piece of 1x1 aluminum tube? Then you could have both an 8x10 and a 4x5 Cambo to use as desired. The 4x5 solution isn't going to fold more compactly than a field camera, but it still will pack and transport well by removing the bellows, and sliding the standards off the rail. You can probably pick up all that stuff for $125- $150 and be able to use your current lenses and Cambo lensboards as well. You could also add an inexpensive standard bellows to the above to handle the longer lenses with ample extension.

Didn't even think about this. It was so obvious it was right under my nose! Problem solved. I'm going to do exactly this. Brb, off to the auction site. Cheers!

Joe Smigiel
18-Jul-2012, 14:34
Glad it was helpful.

But, nix the plain aluminum tube idea. Although I have read this several times, I'd never tried it before today. The Cambo standard mount is engineered so the regular 1" plain tube doesn't work. You need to buy Cambo monorails.

Lachlan 717
18-Jul-2012, 15:54
Glad it was helpful.

But, nix the plain aluminum tube idea.

Welly probably canned the idea already. It's pretty much impossible to get Aluminum in any form in Australia...

Steve Barber
18-Jul-2012, 18:00
Hi chaps,

Currently shooting with a Wisner technical field camera 4x5 and a Cambo 8x10. Love shooting with them both but the Wisner, my "daily" camera has a few niggles which I find a bit limiting.

I've just got hold of a Polaroid back and while it fits, just, it only just fits and I'm concerned I might put the camera out of focus when I'm trying to slide the back in or worse, damage the camera. Secondly, and more importantly, I like to shoot wide angle lenses. Currently as wide as 90mm but would like to go wider. My Wisner grumbles about 90mm lenses and so there is chance in hell it'll go any wider. I've tried the pointing it down 45 degrees trick with mixed success but it's not something I would like to have to resort to regularly.



The Grafmatic, Polaroid, Fuji instant and Graflex roll film type film holders need a camera that has a Graflok or “Universal” type back. These either are too thick to stuff into the Wisner or won’t go in at all. I have tried these, at one time or another using other cameras, and the only film holder, other than the standard Fidelity type 4x5 sheet film holders, that I think is worth fooling with in the Wisner is the Linhof Rapid Rolex 120 roll film holder, which is no thicker than a Fidelity 4x5 film holder. The advantage being that it does not abuse your camera back springs and you do not have to remove the ground glass to use it. I am sure that Mr. Ritter can make a Graflok back for your camera that will accept the other holders, but I do not think it would be worth the bother.

Regarding the use of shorter focal length lenses, your Wisner will accommodate a lens down to 65mm by tilting the front standard support towards the back and, then, setting the front standard at the angle required. I do not remember having a need to “drop the bed” with anything down to a 47mm. You will have some movement available with the standard bellows and a 90mm lens. With a 65mm lens, the standard bellows will be fully compressed and there will be no movement available, this is the price you pay for having enough bellows to be able to get up to 530mm or so in possible bellows extension. If you use a bag bellows, you will not be able to find a lens short enough that you cannot use full movements and there will be no problem with using full movements with even the 90mm Super-Angulon XL, because your camera will accommodate even as bulky a rear element as that lens has without interference.

On this last point, if you are using the 90mm S-A XL with some other field camera, you need to be sure that you can get the rear element through the front standard. With the Technika style lens boards, that may not be possible without removing the rear portion of the lens housing (if it is removable, some are not). Even then, if you can get it mounted, you need to be sure there will be no interference with it when taking advantage of its larger coverage. With your Wisner, neither of these issues will be of any concern.

Get a bag bellows, forget the discontinued film and holders for it and be happy with your Wisner. I do not think you will find many other field cameras that are as versatile as your Wisner is.