Graded papers

[Erik Asgeirsson]

I have been using Oriental Seagull G grade 2 paper. It seems to have increased in price since I last bought a box, and I was wondering if anyone has had good results with Fortezo, Luminos Classic graded or Cachet graded? If any of these are similar to Seagull or Galerie I'll give them a try, otherwise I'll probably shell out the extra dough for what I've been using. Thanks!

[Gem Singer]

Erik,

Stick with what you have been using. Graded papers have been gradually disappearing from dealer's shelves, and the Oriental Seagull G is good stuff, if you can find what you need. Well worth the price.

If you are merely looking for a slightly lower priced option, look at the Forte papers.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I like Seagull, but I like Cachet Expo graded a little more. It holds shadow detail beautifully. It's also supposed to respond well to amidol, but I haven't tried that yet. I develop it in Agfa Neutol WA.

[Wayne]

The only one I can commnet on is Fortezo, which is beautiful warmtone stuff, but not like Seagull (also my favorite).

[Ole Tjugen]

Fortezo, Bergger and Kentmere is all good stuff. I really like the Bergger Art CB (Warm tone) papers, and the NB (neutral) papers have remarkably stable colour in selenium toning.

[Mike Chini]

I love the Fortezo Semi-Matte. It is my main paper. I found it works extremely well with Edwal Ultra Black at high dilutions. At any rate, I've also tried and loved Galerie and Bergger NB papers but they only come in glossy and I prefer a semi-matte or semi-gloss. The Fortezo can give you warm to cold tones depending upon the developer and fixer used. Great stuff.

[Ed Pierce]

It pays to shop around...B&H has the best prices I've found on Seagull

[Donald Miller]

I've just returned to Seagull Graded paper after having printed on Seagull VCFB for the last several years. My feelings are the graded paper is a very fine paper and I intend to return to only it for my enlarging paper. The expense is a consideration, certainly, but when I look at a print made on it and a print made on other papers it just makes the price justifiable for me.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I find Fortezo too green for my taste, but maybe it's more attractive in some other developer than the ones I tried.

In any case the best thing you can do, since this is such a personal kind of thing, is buy a 25-sheet pack of each of the premium papers and print the same neg on each of them and compare. I keep the test prints in a file for future reference, in case one of those papers that I didn't pick as my main choice might be just right for a certain kind of image.

[Nick Morris]

To Mike Chini - I have Ilfobrom Galerie in matte surface, grades 2 and 3 . I think the matte surface is available, but only in grades 2 and 3. It is a nice paper. I use the glossy in grades 2, 3, and 4 also.

[Mike Chini]

Hey Nick-

I misspoke. I meant they only come in glossy or matte but not in between. Thanks for mentioning it though. I wish Galerie came in a semi-matte or semi-gloss since I love the look of the paper and get great tones with it. I also love the fact that it tones easily without changing tint.

[Chris Gittins]

Erik,

This isn't an answer to your question, but something to consider if you're thinking about changing papers:

After working with Ilford MGIV + Dektol for several years I've been experimenting with other paper/developer combinations. In addition to MGIV, I've tried Seagull VC, Galerie #3, Bergger NB #3, and two warm tones, MGW and Bergger CB #3. I've tried the Seagull in Dektol and Photographers' Formulary 130. All the others in 130 only. I need to make more prints before I could give you a subjective opinion on the difference in 'look' of prints on each paper, but I can tell there are some technical differences between the papers. Seagull has a much longer range than the Ilford papers. Negatives which print normally on a #2 filter with MGIV print with a #3 on Seagull. (Changing developers didn't affect the paper curves, but changing developer temperature did by as much as half a grade..) Galerie #3 had the same paper curve as MGIV with a #3 filter and Bergger NB #3 was basically the same as Galerie #3. Although I haven't tried Galerie #2, based on my testing, I'd predict it would be much more similar to Seagull #3 than Seagull #2.

Although the overall range of MGIV with a #1 filter is very similar to Seagull with a #2, there's a break in the MGIV curve around Zone III whereas the Seagull is nice and smooth. Although the highlights and deep shadows will print the same on MGIV with a #1 and Seagull with a #2, the break in the MGIV curve gives a little less shadow separation and a little more separation between midtones and highlights. That may or may not be something you're concerned with, but it is a difference. The takehome message is that there can be significant differences between papers with the same nominal grade and even switching grades won't necessarily produce prints with the same look as the paper you're used to.

Hope that info is useful.

Chris