graflex lenses

[Mark Kononczuk]

77007 Hello. I have a Graflex super speed graphic camera with a (Graflex) Rodenstock Optar 135mm lense with a funny clock-back the whole collar shutter mechanism. The color images are not very good and I want to buy a better quality lens. What lenses would fit this camera? It has a specific lense-board, but I suppose this is typical for most graphlex cameras?:confused:
thanks, Mark

[Joseph Dickerson]

Can you post an image or two that you're unhappy with? It's doubtful that the color issue is a problem with the lens unless the shutter is slow and you're overexposing.

The Rodenstock Optar should be a good lens, although one without a lot of coverage.

Give us a bit more to work with and I'm sure you'll get some helpful advice.

JD

[Mark Kononczuk]

Can you post an image or two that you're unhappy with? It's doubtful that the color issue is a problem with the lens unless the shutter is slow and you're overexposing.

The Rodenstock Optar should be a good lens, although one without a lot of coverage.

Give us a bit more to work with and I'm sure you'll get some helpful advice.

JD

[Mark Kononczuk]

Can you post an image or two that you're unhappy with? It's doubtful that the color issue is a problem with the lens unless the shutter is slow and you're overexposing.

The Rodenstock Optar should be a good lens, although one without a lot of coverage.

Give us a bit more to work with and I'm sure you'll get some helpful advice.

JD

hmmm.ok i'll post some examples. maybe I'm not scanning the slides properly.
mark

[BrianShaw]

I have never had a complaint with my Optar 135, either because of "coverage limitations" or image quality (color or B&W) when the camera was properly used. For chuckles I once replaced the Optar with a 135 Schneider Symmar MC. I recall it being a easy swap on a Super Graphic board but the electronic release could not be used. I think the Super Speed board your lens is on is different. You can get a regular Pacemaker metal board and make it work, but I don't know if you can remove the lens you have and do a straight replacement or not. In teh end I didn't find the Symmar to be such a great improvement over the Optar so I went back to the original configuration. I would suspect, as JD said, that your problem is more probably with the shutter and exposure... or from not using tripod or fast enough shutter speeds if handholding.

[Mark Kononczuk]

hmmm. perhaps I need a new optar lens. I tried to upload some samples but they were too big. But I just noticed that at 100%, the images that I wanted to send are REALLY unsharp. Hmmm. (Scanned at 2400ppi to get a photo that will be 100cmx80cm at 300dpi, using silverfast on an epson v750 pro) they were done on a tripod on speeds of around a quarter of a second between f/11 and f/32. Funnily enough I have some very sharp images too - they were done manually - since my shutter doesn't work over half a second, I measure the light and set the aperture by hand- I kind of have to guess the size of the hole and cover and uncover the lense with a sock. hi-tech but it works.

[Peter York]

Did you refocus between shots? Did you focus with the rangefinder or on the groundglass? Are you using a loupe to focus on the groundglass?

Are you examining the thing you focussed on in the image for sharpness? Different apertures will affect the sharpness of other elements in the scene.

Blurry images taken on a tripod are "usually" a focussing error, not a lens problem or other problems. Since some of your images are "very shap," its more likely that focussing is the culprit.

[Mark Kononczuk]

Did you refocus between shots? Did you focus with the rangefinder or on the groundglass? Are you using a loupe to focus on the groundglass?

Are you examining the thing you focussed on in the image for sharpness? Different apertures will affect the sharpness of other elements in the scene.

Blurry images taken on a tripod are "usually" a focussing error, not a lens problem or other problems. Since some of your images are "very shap," its more likely that focussing is the culprit.

I focus using the ground glass screen. I figured that if I have a small aperaturte, say f/11 to f/32 then if one third in front and 2 thirds behind the focusing point will be sharp then that gives me a wide margin for error. what I'm thinking about at the moment is: how acurate are these press cameras in terms of the ground glass being exactly where the film is?

[Fotoguy20d]

They're usually accurate except if the fresnel is installed wrong. Look at your ground glass panel. There should be a plastic fresnel lens installed facing the lens (rough side facing lens). The frosted side of the glass should be facing the fresnel. Anything else will throw off focus by a little bit.

Dan

[BrianShaw]

They're usually accurate except if the fresnel is installed wrong. Look at your ground glass panel. There should be a plastic fresnel lens installed facing the lens (rough side facing lens). The frosted side of the glass should be facing the fresnel. Anything else will throw off focus by a little bit.

Close, but not quite... (I'm assuming by "rough side" you meant the grooved side.)

The fresnel should be on the lens side of the back, but the fresnel grooves and the frosted part of the GG should be sandwiched together in the middle.

[E. von Hoegh]

The filmholders - and film loading - could be a culprit, too.

Could you show more clearly the "clock-back" you mentioned in your first post? You also mentioned you had to "guess at the size of the hole". By this, do you mean there is no aperture scale?

[BrianShaw]

I assume he was using teh best-availlable words to describe the Optar 1000 shutter's cocking collar. There are so many options on what's going wrong. One other consideration could be impact of the large amount of extension being used to get close-ups.

[premortho]

Yeah, Brian...talk about a choke shot!!

[Mark Kononczuk]

ok, I'll have a look. thanks

[Mark Kononczuk]

the pictures I posted are tiny samples- the overall image is a full-length portrait which takes up 70% of the whole shot, so there is still stuff around the figure. the full pictures are about 80cm x 60cm at 300dpi. the little samples of details are about 4cm x 3cm.
I took the collar cocking mechanism apart wanting to retain the lenseboard and the cogs kind-of fell apart, so that's the end of the shutter's life - it didn't work properly anyway. the lenseboard is also unsalvageable as it's permanently connected to the shutter.

[Mark Kononczuk]

actually - how far can you go with sharpness with an optar lense? can you get a razor sharp image ( if all is working properly ) on a, say, 100cm x 80cm print?

[Mark Kononczuk]

does anybody know the difference between a graflex wollensak an optar and an ektar lense? are they coated (or multi-coated)? also, how do these lensboards differ? I noticed the some boards have been drilled. what lensboard would i need for one of the above lenses on a super speed graphic?

[Dan Fromm]

Mark, go to www.graflex.org and read the FAQs. All of them. Then think a little, and if there's something you don't understand ask for help there and here. When you ask, it would help if you explained that you'd read the FAQs and needed help understanding what's in them.

[Mark Kononczuk]

The filmholders - and film loading - could be a culprit, too.

Could you show more clearly the "clock-back" you mentioned in your first post? You also mentioned you had to "guess at the size of the hole". By this, do you mean there is no aperture scale?

my shutter doesn't work on times over half a second so I had to uncover and cover the lense by hand after a reading from my lightmeter. the only problem with this was that the notches where you set the aperture normally don't work when the shutter is open so I had to guess the size of the hole. it turns out that f/32 or f/120 for example is a lot wider than I thought. I can't show you the clocking-back mechanism because I dismantled the shutter and it fell to pieces.

[ic-racer]

77007 . The color images are not very good

Things that I have observed that cause a lens to not make a sharp image at any focal point even when stopped down are the presence of the wrong rear element or severe abnormal front-rear element spacing or stopping down too much.

[Mark Kononczuk]

Things that I have observed that cause a lens to not make a sharp image at any focal point even when stopped down are the presence of the wrong rear element or severe abnormal front-rear element spacing or stopping down too much.

you mean the ground glass screen/fresnel?

[BrianShaw]

No, he is referring to the two parts of the lens -- the part in front of the shutter (front element), and the part behind the shutter (rear element).

[Dan Fromm]

No, he is referring to the two parts of the lens -- the part in front of the shutter (front element), and the part behind the shutter (rear element).

Right. And it is unlikely that the lens is at fault. Operator error is the most likely reason for the OP's woes.

I've been there myself, have learned the hard way to check that my gear is working properly before blaming it. So far it very consistently worked as it should. I, however, haven't always been up to standard.

[Mark Kononczuk]

Right. And it is unlikely that the lens is at fault. Operator error is the most likely reason for the OP's woes.

I've been there myself, have learned the hard way to check that my gear is working properly before blaming it. So far it very consistently worked as it should. I, however, haven't always been up to standard.

Ok, thanks. it seems as if I have to delve deeper into the camera.

[BrianShaw]

Mark, Check the fresnel/GG. If they are correctly installed and you focused corectly then you can assume it is not the camera at fault for hte focus issues. The exposure issue is likely a result of you trying to use a broken shutter. With a good shutter and lens you shouldn't be having problems.

From our perspective, though, you need to be more descriptive about your problems and your methods. There are a number of "operator errors" that Dan is implying, like:

failure to load film in the holder correctly
failure to focus accrately
changing focus when inserting film holder
not using a steady tripod and cable release
etc.

As Dan correctly said earlier... don't be too quick to blame the equipment. You may need to delve deeper into knowledge of how to photograph using LF equipment instead.

[E. von Hoegh]

There's always the homepage - http://www.largeformatphotography.info/