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miss_emma_jade
5-Jul-2012, 02:42
hey guys n gals. here is the thing. I am intending to travel a bit more with my new 4x5 chamonix when it arrives. (in particularly a trip to the USA in february).the problem with large format for me, is the amount of bulk that darkslides take up in a bag. what are the other options. I want something i can load in a hotel room, (maybe a dark bag) and shoot maybe 20 sheets in a day and then put them back in a box for processing at night.. is such a thing possible??

ideas anyoone???

EMMA

Bruce Barlow
5-Jul-2012, 03:03
Many hotels have bathrooms with no windows, and so with a little physical discomfort film can be changed in them (like, leaning over the bathtub, but I can usually sit on the throne and put holders on the edge of the bathtub without disaster. Usually). Stuff a towel along the bottom crack of the door. Depending on how you develop, carry one or several empty boxes to hold undeveloped film. In a real pinch, you can put undeveloped film underneath the unexposed packet of film in your open film box, but that's a little scary to me. So, I carry a Normal development empty box, and a Plus Development, because those are my only two options. Add a box or two of unexposed film, and I'm good to go.

I'd also suggest that if you think you'll use ten holders, have 15. The worst thing in the world would be to use the last holder 5 minutes before seeing the picture of the day. Stay away from changing bags - they are dust nightmares. Harrison Tents are nice, but pricey and bulky. Better to use that space for more holders.

Travel well, and enjoy.

miss_emma_jade
5-Jul-2012, 04:07
Thanks Bruce.
Around here i usually carry 5 darkslides for a day out on foot. thats about as much as I can shoot in a day. on vacation id like to shoot a few panoramas though maybe, for instance, etc. however, a 20 sheets in a day might be possible if i had someway to carry it. what a dillemma.

rdenney
5-Jul-2012, 04:41
About the only option I've seen for a more compact holder that is still reasonably available is the Graflex Grafmatic, which holds six sheets in a package about the size of 1-1/2 regular film holders. It's nothing like as compact as, say, Fuji Quickloads, but any improvement is better than none. Two of those should fulfill your requirements.

Here's an article about it: http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/grafmatic/

More compact but very difficult to find is the Mido film holder system. I remember reading about that maybe 20 years ago and wanting it, but I never bought it when it was being made and now they don't come up often.

Rick "still working from freezer full of Quickloads, but only for color" Denney

miss_emma_jade
5-Jul-2012, 04:43
do those grafmatic things really work??

theyre expensive and complicated. having said that ive never seen one up close.

Emma

rdenney
5-Jul-2012, 05:13
do those grafmatic things really work??

Apparently they do. When one comes up for sale on this forum for $75 or so, it usually sells within minutes.

I've considered them several times, but for what I do, the regular double-sided film holders are workable, and for color work I'm still drawing down my Quickload supply.

Rick "who'll get a Grafmatic eventually" Denney

Corran
5-Jul-2012, 05:18
I think a helpful addition to a kit is a 120 back, either a panoramic one or just 6x7/6x9. Use them when appropriate and it'll cut down your 4x5 film usage. Not every shot needs to be 4x5.

miss_emma_jade
5-Jul-2012, 05:19
I think a helpful addition to a kit is a 120 back, either a panoramic one or just 6x7/6x9. Use them when appropriate and it'll cut down your 4x5 film usage. Not every shot needs to be 4x5.

yes ive given this some thought too..

Drew Bedo
5-Jul-2012, 05:28
Is anyone out there using Grafmatic magazines?

Graybeard
5-Jul-2012, 05:33
The Harrison tents do have the advantage that you can reload the film holders out in the field.You can reload in a diner, at a picnic table, or use the hood of your car as a hasty workbench. If you use the car hood, choose your location carefully; you won't be able to swat mosquitos with both arms inside the tent.

Evenings, working in the hotel bathroom will be more convenient.


Many hotels have bathrooms with no windows, and so with a little physical discomfort film can be changed in them (like, leaning over the bathtub, but I can usually sit on the throne and put holders on the edge of the bathtub without disaster. Usually). Stuff a towel along the bottom crack of the door. Depending on how you develop, carry one or several empty boxes to hold undeveloped film. In a real pinch, you can put undeveloped film underneath the unexposed packet of film in your open film box, but that's a little scary to me. So, I carry a Normal development empty box, and a Plus Development, because those are my only two options. Add a box or two of unexposed film, and I'm good to go.

I'd also suggest that if you think you'll use ten holders, have 15. The worst thing in the world would be to use the last holder 5 minutes before seeing the picture of the day. Stay away from changing bags - they are dust nightmares. Harrison Tents are nice, but pricey and bulky. Better to use that space for more holders.

Travel well, and enjoy.

miss_emma_jade
5-Jul-2012, 05:41
The Harrison tents do have the advantage that you can reload the film holders out in the field.You can reload in a diner, at a picnic table, or use the hood of your car as a hasty workbench. If you use the car hood, choose your location carefully; you won't be able to swat mosquitos with both arms inside the tent.

Evenings, working in the hotel bathroom will be more convenient.

I hadnt thought of this... means i only need 2 holders and 2 film boxes... ill have to look into this tent.

BrianShaw
5-Jul-2012, 06:46
I travel with 5 or 6 holders, empty film boxes for storing exposed film, and a changing bag. Works just fine. Changing film too often is a pain in the neck, so I try to ensure that I never have to be changing film in the field. If shooting both color and B&W I often bring 4 or 5 holders loaded with each.

Re: Grafmatics... they sure sound convenient but I echo Drew Bedo's question. I see lots of interest when they come up for sale but never hear much about people using them. Sometimes I think I keep seeing the same couple of grafmatics getting sold and re-sold, but that might be my vivid imagination. Since they survived for a long time in the Graflex catalogue I assume they were a good and useful item.

cowanw
5-Jul-2012, 06:53
They work very well, especially if you use them a lot and remember the motions. I use them less and need to review the instructions each time. I suspect the reason you don't hear about them is that people don't complain. posting threads usually is becaude of a problem or a complaint.
Still darkslides are simple!
Bill (KISS) Cowan

Light Guru
5-Jul-2012, 08:01
I love the Grafmatic film holders. I can cary a lot more exposures in my pack that way. I have invested in 3 one for my B&W film, one for my color film and one for my B&W infrared film.

One thing I like about them is that they have a little number wheel that will expose a small number onto your negative. This makes it much easier to match up your exposure notes with your negative. Some people will remove the number wheels so be sure that when you buy the holder it has it.

Do a search on YouTube for grafmatic holder and you can see a few good videos on how they work. They are actualy quite simple.

John Kasaian
5-Jul-2012, 08:09
Ansel Adams reputedly went head first into his sleeping bag on occasion to load/unload his film holders.

Joseph Dickerson
5-Jul-2012, 08:31
Emma,

I have been using Grafmatics forever, at least 30 years. I have never had a failure that wasn't a direct result of my own nervousness/stupidity/adrenaline/clumsiness/panic/mosquito dancing. The same holds true for regular sheet film holders (double dark slides). Quickloads are however a very different thing. :p

I love the convenience of QL/RL film and have a fridge full of Acros, but I have had issues on occasion, and of course there is the cost. When I run out, I'm not going to pay the current prices, heck, I wasn't too thrilled about the old prices.

A loading tent and a Grafmatic (preferably two) and you should be set. But I have done the head in the sleeping bag dance as well...not fun. I usually travel by van, so the motel bathroom is not an option but, as Bruce suggests, it is workable.

I use a Calumet changing tent and it folds nice and flat, doesn't take up that much room and the weight is minimal.

Enjoy your trip.

JD

TheDeardorffGuy
5-Jul-2012, 08:45
I've been doing this so long that I just assume everyone has the same experience as I have had. Grafmatics were just being phased out of manufactureing when I started in LF. About 1973. I bought my first in 77. Then when I started working at Deardorff there was a photographer who made the switch to MEDO. (remember them?) He gave me 15 Grafmatics in barter for some repair work. A great trade up!! The numbers had been ripped out and all has been good with them. Find some online instructions and get one. I've never had a leaky one so I have no experience with repair. I put a piece of green or blue painters tape on them to write on. so I know what I shot.

Dan Henderson
5-Jul-2012, 09:01
I took a Harrison changing tent on a camping/shooting trip to South Dakota 2 years ago. I had enough loaded holders with me that I did not need to reload for a few days (+/- 5 holders per day seems like my limit). I waited until as late as possible in the evening until it cooled down, finding that sweaty hands and forearms inside the tent make handling film challenging. The first time or two that a park ranger-type person drove by on his/her golf cart I got the potential terrorist evil eye, but once they found out what I was doing life was good again. My biggest problem was keeping track of N-, Normal, N+ A side, B side, but it more or less worked out. Dust was not an issue...maybe an unintended benefit of the humidity my sweaty hands and arms created.

Cletus
5-Jul-2012, 09:39
I know you're concerned about bulk, but I've always used a couple f/64 film holder cases. They don't cost that much (~$25) and hold six holders each. I carry two, for 12 holders total, and often go through them all in a busy day. The f/64 cases are nicely padded and constructed for protection and to keep the film from heat extremes. They have a pocket for darkslides or notebooks and even some provision to attach to camera bags or backpacks - especially f/64 backpacks - so they're quite convenient to travel with and work out of.

If you can't get Grafmatics, standard film holders are pretty much your only option. If you're shooting B&W and don't use quickloads, it's best to just bite the bullet and budget for the space. For a large format film shooter, the actual film seems to be right up there near the top of the "necessity" list!

I also have a pain in the **s changing bag (not tent), but almost always load film at night in the hotel bathroom. I carry a roll of gaffer's tape for light leaks. Exposed film is placed in a labelled, empty film box. I travel all the time and have never encountered a hotel bathroom that was unusable (at night). You can often tape your darkcloth over the window if necessary. If all else fails, or I have to load film during the day, I can still use the changing bag and get it done. It's inconvenient and time consuming, but very compact and usable in a pinch.

Hope my (quite common) method of film handling while traveling helps you in your pursuits.

Cletus

Cletus
5-Jul-2012, 09:55
Dan - I just read your comments regarding "keeping track of A side, B side, Normal, etc.". There is an easy and convenient way of permanently marking your holders with a binary code that will appear on your developed film and positively correlate it with the holder it came from. Way Beyond Monochrome gives specific details for this, but if you are interested I'm sure you could Google this method and get the same results if you don't have the book. As long as you're keeping notes of your exposure details with film holder numbers as you shoot, you'll always be able to identify which sheet came from which holder after you develop your film.

...Now that I think about it, this system isn't particularly useful for tracking exposed sheets BEFORE you process them, per your comments. Even then, it sure does provide some valuable information later when you're trying to evaluate the effects of N, N+, filters used, etc...on your processed sheet film. Sorry, I wasn't quite in touch with the particular problem you mentioned in your post.

Cletus

Kodachrome25
5-Jul-2012, 10:08
I have 30 film holders, all with small pieces different colored coded tape with numbers on them that correspond to what film is in them. 6 of them are lightweight and beautifully made Chamonix holders that I bought specifically for backpacking. I also have a small Harrison changing tent but will opt for a bathroom at night if I can.

Jim Andrada
5-Jul-2012, 17:25
Re Grafmatics - I have six or eight and I use them often. I do find that if your camera has a Graflok back you should engage it with the Grafmatics as the pushing and pulling can, if you're too energetic, pull it out of the camera. That said, I like them and I use them a lot. I also vote for the numbers but a lot of folks don't like them. They also work great for the occasional hand held shots. They do take some practice and they're heavy. but well worth the trouble.

JBAphoto
5-Jul-2012, 17:57
Emma,

Call on your friends for darkroom use, by which I mean put a post on this site and on APUG asking for darkroom use during your journey - This will make life simple in the places you meet other LF photographers and learn a lot as you travel

Regarding photographers traveling through SW Western Australia, I am very happy to meet traveling photographers and let them use my darkroom providing I am satisfied they know what they are doing and we get on OK

John

Frank Petronio
5-Jul-2012, 19:00
The Harrison Pup Tent is a very nice and now essential part of traveling with a 4x5 to me. I also bring a few empty boxes, marking pen, and a roll of tape, storing it all in a large Rubbermaid container so it is not overly compressed except when I use the stuff sack for air travel. Well worth the ~$200, far superior to the cheaper options and more reliable than hotel bathrooms.

I have used Grafmatics off and on for years. The main problem I have had with them is that I tend to overshoot too many sheets because it is easy to slip into motor drive mode and shoot too many too quirky. Seriously, double dark slides slow you down enough that you pace your shooting differently.

I also believe that the Grafmatic's springs and metal septums that hold the film are better at keeping the film flat, especially facing down against gravity as you would for a still-life or pictures of rocks, tree roots, dead animals... (predictable large format subjects).

But there are a few cautions. First, they are fairly simple but you must practice with and test them before relying on them. Any bends in the metal septums that hold the film will cause trauma. And remember that these were intended for press cameras with metal Graflock backs (like Crown Graphics) so a light wooden back camera like yours may not enjoy having a heavier metal Grafmatic inserted. It will probably work fine but you want to check that the back's springs are firm enough to hold it tight and in the right spot, sometimes there can be a slight ridge or obstruction that keeps it from seating properly and you can get a leak. And pulling the slide can also introduce light leaks if you pull back at all (it isn't as flexible as a regular holder). So before committing 100%, be sure to sample and test and see if you can conform your habits to using them properly.

A little beeswax on the sliding sides keeps them happy, along with normal cleanliness. I think they stay cleaner than regular holders too.

Now a bit of truth... I sold mine with my Technika and won't go back. I prefer the lightness of a double dark and also if I do have a mechanical failure, I only ruin one or two sheets rather than six. I have owned maybe 15 to 18 Grafmatics over the years and two have self-destructed in the midst of shooting with no warning. Hopefully my 52-year old parts are as robust as the Grafmatics but stuff wears out and gets brittle and breaks.

I assembled a kit of 25 Toyo double dark slides, selling off the perfectly fine Liscos and Fidelities. The Toyos are truly the finest holders yet and I think I will stick with them for however long film is still available.

I'd travel with 10 holders and a Harrision Pup if it was me trying to keep bulk down, as you can reload mid-day with the Harrison. If it was something like an architectural job and had a real client, I'd bring all the holders I could. But taking 15 minutes to reload at Noon isn't too bad a compromise.