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View Full Version : $900 for a 4.4 oz. Rodenstock Apo Grandagon Helical Focus Mount!



Andre Noble
29-Jun-2012, 10:11
I am putting together a Silvestri T30 system - a beautiful camera system made in Florence, Italy. http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/prodotti_eng/t30_eng/t30_eng.htm that allows for shift and accurate focusing of ultra wide angle lenses.

This system uses Schneider or Rodenstock large format lenses mounted in their respective manufacturer's helical focus mount, finally attached to a Silvestri proprietary bayonet mount which all attaches to T30 body.

I hit a major roadblock: Apparent price gouging:

B&H quoted me a price of 900$ for this 4.4 ounce piece of brass & aluminum known as the Rodenstock Helical mount for their LF lenses. 76312

Thankfully B&H did sell me the Rodenstock helical mount for the 55 Grandagon for a more reasonable price of $320 - I suspect only because it was already listed on their web site for $320. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/342089-REG/Rodenstock_260060_Helical_Focusing_Mount.html They did not have it in stock, so they special ordered it for me at $322. Acceptable.

Here's the problem. I need the same helical mounts for the Rodenstock 35, 45, and 65 Grandagon lenses as well. These almost identical helical mounts for the 35, 45, 65, etc were NOT listed on B&H web site.

SO, I inquired with B&H about purchasing them.

Here's B&H's reply:

Hello Andre Noble, my name is Daniel W:

Thank you for contacting the E-Mail Sales Department at B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio.
As per our buyer, we can special order, non cancellable at $900 each.
Please let us know if there is anything else we can assist you with.

Thank you, we appreciate your business.

Daniel W
B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio
The Professional's Source.
E-Mail Sales Department



Maybe Bob Salomon can double check this. Something doesn't seem right here. $900 for 4.4 oz ring. That's $220 and ounce!

BTW, I stand corrected. There is No plastic in my Rodenstock focusing helical.

Leigh
29-Jun-2012, 10:20
Mechanical assemblies are not sold by weight. Diamonds are. You want to buy a 4.4 oz diamond?

- Leigh

vinny
29-Jun-2012, 10:30
Maybe they saw the city you live in and just threw out a number:)

Louis Pacilla
29-Jun-2012, 10:34
Maybe they saw the city you live in and just threw out a number:)

Oh that's funny Vinny.

BTW- That does seem to be a mighty high special order price. Then again, when you can "only" purchase what you need by special order(and that seems highly likely given the items your after) they kind of got you over the old" proverbial barrel" That's a bummer.:(:(

Leigh
29-Jun-2012, 10:54
Calumet sells Rodenstock, and seems to have better prices.

- Leigh

Bill_1856
29-Jun-2012, 11:05
"H. P." apparently stands for Horrendous Prices.

E. von Hoegh
29-Jun-2012, 11:13
Mechanical assemblies are not sold by weight. Diamonds are. You want to buy a 4.4 oz diamond?

- Leigh

I know where there's a Rolex Oyster Milgauss for sale, just a wee bit lighter than 4.4oz. $34,000. And it's used.

Look around for a used mount.

Leigh
29-Jun-2012, 11:16
The fact that something is a "catalog item" does not mean or imply that it's a stocked item.
It only means that sufficient documentation exists to enable manufacture of the item.

If they have to give the drawings to a machinist to make a one-off for your order, $900 is very cheap.

- Leigh

John Schneider
29-Jun-2012, 11:21
If you're patient, another option would be to buy a used Horseman SW612 lens cone (which uses the Rodenstock helical), disassemble, keep the helical, and sell the lens and the cone.

Oren Grad
29-Jun-2012, 11:32
Call Bob Salomon and find out what the list price is for the Rodenstock helical mounts you need. If it's much less than $900, ask where else you can order besides B&H.

Call Schneider and find out what the price is for helical mounts for their ultrawides. If the focal lengths don't match the Rodenstock lenses but the mount+lens cost is cheaper than for the Rodenstock products, evaluate whether you can accomplish your objectives with the Schneider products instead. FWIW, Schneider recently quoted me a list price of $439 for a helical mount for the 120mm Apo-Symmar.

Andre Noble
29-Jun-2012, 11:37
Called Calumet for another price. They are researching it. He doesn't know my postal address is Beverly Hills. Yeah, people are jealous these days. They see "Beverly Hills" and assume you're loaded. PS I sent email to Bob Salomon few weeks ago, and it bounced back to me. I will try call.

Oren Grad
29-Jun-2012, 11:38
OK, I just looked at B&H and noted the following prices for Schneider helical mounts:

38mm SAXL: $361.95
47mm SA and SAXL: $378.50
58mm SAXL: $329.25
65mm SA: $329.25
72mm SAXL: $378.50

Can you accomplish what you want with the Schneider lenses/mounts instead?

Andre Noble
29-Jun-2012, 12:03
Oren,

Funny you should say. I just got off phone with Bob Salomon and that's one thing I mentioned at end of our conversation. But he also suggested checking Rodenstock helical focus mount prices from other dealers, but Rodenstock version nevertheless significantly more expensive than Schneider's.

I am a Rodenstock fan via experience with their enlarging lenses, but will consider Schneider ultra wide angle LF lenses for the task. They have excellent reputations also.

Bob Salomon
29-Jun-2012, 12:07
Called Calumet for another price. They are researching it. He doesn't know my postal address is Beverly Hills. Yeah, people are jealous these days. They see "Beverly Hills" and assume you're loaded. PS I sent email to Bob Salomon few weeks ago, and it bounced back to me. I will try call.
bob@hpmarketingcorp.com

Chances are you left off the corp. Or spelled my name wrong.

Oren Grad
29-Jun-2012, 12:14
I am a Rodenstock fan via experience with their enlarging lenses, but will consider Schneider ultra wide angle LF lenses for the task. They have excellent reputations also.

In the same boat here. I'm a huge Rodenstock fan - I think the Apo-Sironar-S lenses are pure magic. But Schneider makes great lenses too, and for a couple of special ultra-wide applications that I've been pursuing recently, I've ended up going with Schneider. In one case there was no Grandagon with the required specification, while in the other case it was - surprise! - the ability to lay my hands easily on an affordable and appropriately-matched focus mount that sealed the deal.

sanchi heuser
29-Jun-2012, 12:26
Andre
Don't now if it helps you further?

Silvestri sells directly:
http://www.silvestricamera.it/ita/catalogo/catalogoeng.asp?OP=P&CAT=15&TXT=&PG=8

and

Linhofstudio in UK distributes Silvestri
http://www.linhofstudio.com/products/cameras/silvestri/silvestri.html
Quote:
Services:
Factory fitted lenses to Helical Focusing and Silvestri Bayonet Mounts ( excluding lens)
Click here for our lens page price list.
In addition the correct Extension Ring
( below ) will be required

575.00
[price is in GBP without VAT]

Oren Grad
29-Jun-2012, 12:30
575.00
[price is in GBP without VAT]

= $901.83, today.

sanchi heuser
29-Jun-2012, 12:37
= $901.83, today.

Yes.
and you have more shipping costs from UK to USA.

I'd go for the Schneider lenses.

Bob Salomon
29-Jun-2012, 12:39
"575.00
[price is in GBP without VAT]"

Which is $901.00 at todays rate of exchange without shipping or duty or brokerage.

sanchi heuser
29-Jun-2012, 12:50
Andre,
do you have already all that lenses you mentioned?

Andre Noble
29-Jun-2012, 14:13
Sanchi, I do not have the lenses I mentioned yet, but will soon within a month or two.

A good friend of mine is selling me his mint++ Apo Grandagon 45 and 65 Grandagon N lenses for $1,000 USD each.

$1,000 USD is also what you can expect to pay on Ebay for mint Schneider ultrawides lenses of the same focal lengths.

But of course, I trust my friend first and foremost cause I can inspect the lenses beforehand.

Also, thanks for the link to Silvestri and Linhof. It seems to suggest that for appx $800 USD they will take lens and mount focusing helical AND Silvetri bayonet. That could be worth while.

Bob Salomon
29-Jun-2012, 15:16
"H. P." apparently stands for Horrendous Prices.

No, you apparently have confused us with someone else. Maybe you buy ink for HP printers?
Our HP were the initials of our founder, Herbert Peerschke.
HP Marketing Corp was a much easier name then Herbert Peerschke Marketing corp or Peerschke Marketing Corp or even just Herbert Marketing Corp.

Peerschke was President of Zeiss Ikon Voigtlander USA and when they decided to leave the photo industry Peerschke bought the inventory and started HP Marketing Corp.

sanchi heuser
1-Jul-2012, 09:57
Sanchi, I do not have the lenses I mentioned yet, but will soon within a month or two.

A good friend of mine is selling me his mint++ Apo Grandagon 45 and 65 Grandagon N lenses for $1,000 USD each.

$1,000 USD is also what you can expect to pay on Ebay for mint Schneider ultrawides lenses of the same focal lengths.

But of course, I trust my friend first and foremost cause I can inspect the lenses beforehand.

Also, thanks for the link to Silvestri and Linhof. It seems to suggest that for appx $800 USD they will take lens and mount focusing helical AND Silvetri bayonet. That could be worth while.

Yes,
I can understand that.
Anyhow, will not be cheap in the end.

If you go with that offer from Linhof Studio, don't forget to avoid the
custom fees and import tax when you send lenses to Europe, maybe you can use a ATA carnet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_Carnet

Phil Hudson
1-Jul-2012, 23:27
I put together a Silvestri system some time ago (I no longer have it). For my use it was worth having Silvestri put the lenses in a focusing mount and their bayonet for me, despite the price. The bayonet mount is machined differently for each lens so it is guaranteed to give the correct flange focal spacing when you use the extension rings on the back. Otherwise you risk going to considerable time and expense and it not give 100% performance.

Just my experience, YMMV!

Asher Kelman
6-Jul-2012, 08:33
André,

I've the same problem with my 90210 address. Prices double!, LOL!

Does anyone have experience with the Chinese made helical mounts. They're considerably cheaper. I have an offer of mounting a lens in a German helical mount, (i.e. Rodestock of Schneider) for $600 and a Chinese sourced mount for $450. Both seem expensive. This is for my Globuscope camera with the 65 mm lens. It's an excellent optic but push-pull focus. (I also have a second Globuscope camera with no lens and was thinking of putting in a 90mm lens and helical mount.

Asher

Asher Kelman
23-Jul-2012, 12:43
Andre,

I ordered a Schneider helical focusing mount from B&H 2 weeks ago and they have no idea of expected arrival. could be a month or more.


They didn't find info on the Grandagon 65mm mount to order in its place. I did find this new item,

NEW ARRIVAL: Rodenstock HELICAL FOCUSING MNT 65 APO GRANDAGON Price: $893.95 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/881877-REG/Rodenstock_1094_2408_020_040_HELICAL_FOCUSING_MNT_65.html)

This is certainly a better bargain than $900 for the helical mount alone. However, I cannot find information anywhere on the specifics of the lens, not at Rodenstock or anywhere else.

Asher




Sanchi, I do not have the lenses I mentioned yet, but will soon within a month or two.

A good friend of mine is selling me his mint++ Apo Grandagon 45 and 65 Grandagon N lenses for $1,000 USD each.

$1,000 USD is also what you can expect to pay on Ebay for mint Schneider ultrawides lenses of the same focal lengths.

But of course, I trust my friend first and foremost cause I can inspect the lenses beforehand.

Also, thanks for the link to Silvestri and Linhof. It seems to suggest that for appx $800 USD they will take lens and mount focusing helical AND Silvetri bayonet. That could be worth while.

Oren Grad
23-Jul-2012, 12:49
I did find this new item,

NEW ARRIVAL: Rodenstock HELICAL FOCUSING MNT 65 APO GRANDAGON Price: $893.95 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/881877-REG/Rodenstock_1094_2408_020_040_HELICAL_FOCUSING_MNT_65.html)

This is certainly a better bargain than $900 for the helical mount alone. However, I cannot find information anywhere on the specifics of the lens, not at Rodenstock or anywhere else.

Asher, if you call B&H I think you will find that the reference to a 65 "Apo Grandagon" is a typo, and that the price and the cited manufacturer's product number refer to the focus mount alone.

cdholden
23-Jul-2012, 13:13
André,

I've the same problem with my 90210 address. Prices double!, LOL!

Does anyone have experience with the Chinese made helical mounts. They're considerably cheaper. I have an offer of mounting a lens in a German helical mount, (i.e. Rodestock of Schneider) for $600 and a Chinese sourced mount for $450. Both seem expensive. This is for my Globuscope camera with the 65 mm lens. It's an excellent optic but push-pull focus. (I also have a second Globuscope camera with no lens and was thinking of putting in a 90mm lens and helical mount.

Asher

Asher,
I'm working on a similar plan for mine. I got a 65/5.6 Super Angulon in helical mount for one. I'm looking for a 90mm in helical mount for another. I have a third body also, but still bouncing a few ideas around about what to do with it.

Chris

Asher Kelman
23-Jul-2012, 13:15
Oren,

That makes sense that it's a typo. After all, two specialists had no idea about it and there are no specs, LOL,

Asher

Asher Kelman
23-Jul-2012, 13:25
Asher,
I'm working on a similar plan for mine. I got a 65/5.6 Super Angulon in helical mount for one. I'm looking for a 90mm in helical mount for another. I have a third body also, but still bouncing a few ideas around about what to do with it.

ChrisChris,

So how much do you have in each thus far? Have you done this at S.K. Grimes. They have one of my Globuscope cameras with no lens, but so far it's just sitting.

I'm trying to get a helical mount for the 65 mm lens that came with my second body. I think it will be possible to focus by the scale at f 8-11 this way.

Asher

Bob Salomon
23-Jul-2012, 13:43
Asher, if you call B&H I think you will find that the reference to a 65 "Apo Grandagon" is a typo, and that the price and the cited manufacturer's product number refer to the focus mount alone.

Correct!

Rodenstock makes 23 different Helical Focusing Mounts for their lenses in 0 shutter. One of which is the 65mm Grandagon N 4.5.
These mounts are available for purchase for the user to mount their lens to it or the lens and fiocus mount can be ordered as a complete system.

In no case would the lens and focus mount be anywhere near $900.00 retail new. That would be the focus mount only. All 23 mounts are the same price.

cdholden
23-Jul-2012, 14:04
I'm just setting the parts aside until I can send it in one trip to them. With my 65mm SA, I went the other way. I found a forum member keeping his lens but selling an unwanted helical mount, then I bought an identical lens/shutter as he had on it. Still looking for a 90mm combo together or find a helical mount that I can identify so I know which 90mm lens/shutter combo to mate to it.

Carsten Wolff
23-Jul-2012, 16:28
I take it the chinese helical mounts rotate the lens whilst focussing....I gather the Schneider or Rodenstock ones don't do that (?) - I'd be rather annoyed to have the cable-release fly about, or have trouble reading the shutter speed, or aperture afterwards....
(So, when I recently made myself a small cheap W.A. 6x9 P&S using a 58mm Omegaron and a Mamiya-Press back, I just used the helix from an old Vivitar focussing TC. Cost for the TC was €2 by the way and an extra 20 mins of work....of course no comparison to that lovely Silvestri.....)

JimL
23-Jul-2012, 17:10
The chinese ones don't rotate - they're a bit crude but adequate. The newer Fotoman mounts are very nicely made.

John Schneider
2-Aug-2012, 08:41
You might be able to adapt this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200801215331&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

Asher Kelman
3-Aug-2012, 12:05
Finally my 65mm Schneider Helical mount arrived in a sealed box from B&H, but without any instructions. It's very well machined and the rotation of the focus is smooth like a classic Zeiss lens with just enough resistance. Rotation is through 270 degrees plus perhaps 5 degrees more at either end. Markings are in meters and ft with DOF indicated according to F stop. There's a removable lens mounting ring with 3 notches in the front and then, provided loose, a smaller 3-notched ring with a gasket. This adapter is for the lens that comes with my globuscope. The unusual lens is in a Copal 0 shutter and separated from a fixed rear leans locked in the camera body. A push pull sticky sliding mechanism is used for focus. I'll post pictures shortly of the helical adapter.!

Asher

Asher Kelman
3-Aug-2012, 14:36
So here are the pictures of the Schneider helical focus for its 65mm lens.


http://openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher_Kelman_2007/_0043500_400.jpg

http://openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher_Kelman_2007/_0043506_500.jpg

http://openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher_Kelman_2007/_0043513_500.jpg

http://openphotographyforums.com/2007_OPF_AK/Asher_Kelman_2007/_0043516_500.jpg

I hope this will be helpful enough for others. I've included a cm ruler to give you a reference.

Asher

John Schneider
12-Aug-2012, 00:24
As long as people were talking of mounting helical focusing mounts on Globuscope bodies, I thought I should post pics of mine. This is a 65 F8 S-A in a Schneider mount. With this lens and mount on the Globuscope body, the ffd is within 0.010 of the spec; thus no shimming was required, and all needed adjustments could be accomplished within the mount itself (this adjusts just like the Fotoman helical, and excellent directions for that exist).

I had to slightly bore out the throat of the body and sand that surface as flat as possible. Three 3-48 SHCS's come from inside the body and thread into tapped holes in the helical mount flange. I welded a small 304 SS tab onto the bottom of the body so that I'd have a strong hardpoint onto which to atach an Arca-style QR plate. Next it needs a finder and a decent GG.

Asher Kelman
13-Aug-2012, 21:07
John,

Did you tap the holes in the helical mount flange? The bolts would seem to me rather bulky. My helical focus has been fitted and I'll have to find out if they did the same. I like the two Arca Swiss tripod mounts. I found using an L bracket from Really Right Stuff almost fit perfectly to do the same and provide a hand grip. your method is neat. Good thing you welded the extra SS tab at the base as that seemingly strong looking circular "tripod mount" is actually riveted on to the thin expanded SS Globuscope body and is just intended to hold a spirit level underneath the camera!!

Are you going for a Maxwell screen? As this runs about $400, I'm considering adding a Graflok back, so that I can use rollfilm 6x6 to 6x12 or my stitch adapter for Canon DSLR's. The Maxwell Screen will be removable with the view box part of the Graflok back, so that I have the benefit of that screen for my 4x5 Crown Graphic with longer lenses. Hopefull, I won't have added too much weight.

Asher

John Schneider
13-Aug-2012, 23:24
I had originally drilled the holes in the helical flange to accept 2-56 screws, so the only option for a threaded hole was to go up to 3-48. The SHCS heads on the inside are bulky but that was the only option other than drilling another set of holes, which would be unsightly. The turned aluminum "tripod" support on the bottom isn't even as good as riveted on, it's held in place with a LH threaded stud so it can come loose unless you locktite it. The SS tab is spot-welded on (anything else would have deformed the this sheetmetal) so it took no skill. I then used a small 4-40 FHCS to connect the SS tab to the "tripod" mount so everything is structurally tied together.

How were you planning to mount a Graflok back? I haven't checked but it appears that there wouldn't be room for the bulkier Graflok back. I have a Sinar 6x12 panoramic back that slips under the GG, so that's what I'll likely use. Thanks for the questions.

Asher Kelman
20-Aug-2012, 22:37
How were you planning to mount a Graflok back? I haven't checked but it appears that there wouldn't be room for the bulkier Graflok back. I have a Sinar 6x12 panoramic back that slips under the GG, so that's what I'll likely use. Thanks for the questions.

I am hoping that one can have a thin base added to the back of the camera to hold a deconstructed graflok back I have. I'll know in a couple of days.

Asher

hiend61
2-Sep-2012, 15:39
Try www.robertwhite.co.uk they stock all rodenstock helical mounts at much more reasonable prices.