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View Full Version : a possible bastard ARCA 8x10?



mortensen
27-Jun-2012, 14:49
as the urge to go down the 8x10 route continues to haunt me, so does the eternal, fun camera research.

It can come as no surprise that I find an Arca 8x10 metric w/orbix to be the candidate - portable, versatile, rigid, precise. What's not to like?
... well, the price tag - I simply won't ever spend that amount of money on a camera, even if I had it.

So, having read a bit on precisioncameraworks.com and happily revisiting Joseph's outstanding 'Arca Irish', I thought going down that route would be ideal for me:
- spend the dough on a F metric front frame and function carrier w/micrometic orbix (and the 'extender' to lift the frame)
- buy an old 4x5 Arca model C (or similar) for the rail and back carrier
- pick up a Sinar or Cambo 8x10 back and build the frame using help from my friends... one has a CNC-machine, the other develops and produces prototypes for the pharmaceutical industry. I'm an architect myself and have a lot of experience working with 2D/3D CAD.
- order bellows-to-measure from custombellows

But can it be done? And what are the pitfalls?... please enlighten me!

short note about how I work:
- I'm quite sure that my lenses for 8x10 would be within the 150-360mm range only. So I wouldn't need too long a rail.
- I shoot mostly architecture, so I need plenty of front movements. Geared front tilt seems essential, although I know a lot of you will find it total overkill. for the back, horizontal shifts should be sufficient for me.

thanks,
lars

jb7
28-Jun-2012, 05:04
Thank you Lars-

Bastard Arca has a nice ring to it, and the assonance of the title should be enough to convince you to make it.

There's no real problem associated with the strategy you've outlined, in fact, as far as DIY 8x10's go, it's so simple and obvious, it's probably cheating.

So get the bits, and off you go...
Of course, if you could find a full 4x5 F-Line, all the better, you could use that to provide extra extension on the front, should you ever need it.

All the best-


Joseph

Frank Petronio
28-Jun-2012, 06:56
You could just absorb a little extra weight and use an off-the-shelf, relatively inexpensive Sinar that simply works. Certainly a fine Arca system might shave a little weight and bulk but you might want to check to see exactly how much. I bet it is only 10-20% if that, and it is much more versatile, easy to find parts for, and not nearly as expensive.

mortensen
28-Jun-2012, 08:30
I'm actually not too obsessed with weight and you do a good job as an ambassador of Sinar practicalities, Frank
My 'problem' is, that I've gone from a woodie to Linhof... very hard to backtrack on mechanical quality! And the Sinar F I've toyed with briefly, was not in the Linhof legue. I know they are fine cameras used by countless pro's, but the F's front standard is - as far as I've read - not really suited for 8x10 architectural work, since you use almost all the front rise on just 'zeroing' the standards. That would leave me with (too) limited front movements and a wobbly front. Also, geared front tilt would be really nice!... those 8x10 shooters always talk about front tilt to optimize focus, right? :)

John Schneider
28-Jun-2012, 08:49
I wouldn't even call such a camera a "bastard," you're just combining Arca parts from different vintages to get the best of each vintage. In an analogy that probably only makes sense to American hot-rodders of a certain age, it's like putting a vintage 427 side-oiler in a new Mustang chassis. It's still a Ford, and a very fast one at that. :):)

I've done just this several times in 8x10, 4x10, and 5x12; and Kerry T. has done so in 4x10 and 7x17. Kerry has nice pics of his conversion if you search here. I'm in fact cleaning out some (I made three) of my older 8x10 conversions (one with an older model A rear function carrier and format frame and one with a modern F), and I can give you the details before putting them in the FS section here, sometime in the next few weeks.

mortensen
28-Jun-2012, 11:16
sounds great - please keep me posted!

btw, where can one actually order a F-line metric front only ? looking at Robert White, Badger, magasin Arca etc no one list it separately.

Frank Petronio
28-Jun-2012, 11:20
There is a Sinar F front end made for 8x10 with longer risers, and it is solid. Of course P or a Norma would be even better.

Only 4x5 but Years ago I swapped an Arca Discovery for a Sinar Norma without missing a beat, only slightly larger.

Given how little an 8x10 might get used, I'd factor the price and time ahead of other concerns!

John Schneider
28-Jun-2012, 11:48
btw, where can one actually order a F-line metric front only ? looking at Robert White, Badger, magasin Arca etc no one list it separately.

You can always buy it new (ouch!). I found mine from Kerry, who bought it new; Lensfielders* had one for sale until recently.

*This is an online used store run by the wife of the US Arca rep, so they get a lot of used Arca gear you wouldnt find anywhere else (http://lensfielders.com/category/arca-swiss/).

mortensen
28-Jun-2012, 13:18
thanks, John - seems like a good place to look!

Frank Petronio
28-Jun-2012, 16:20
You saw Eric's recent ad for the 810 Arca mod?

Gudmundur Ingolfsson
28-Jun-2012, 17:01
Man kan da köbe en SINAR P for nćsten ingenting og gamle Danmark er nok sikkert fyldt med SINAR NORMA som ingen bruger mer. Sinar Norrma 8x10 er dog helt ideal til hvad du tenker dig.

jb7
29-Jun-2012, 02:24
In college, I had a choice between a Sinar and an Arca C. The only feature I preferred on the Sinar was the depth of field wheel on the focusing knob, a feature the Arca lacked. Later, when I rented cameras, the only one available was Sinar. When I came to buy one, I bought an Arca, and it was a good choice for me. So much more intuitive, and a much more elegant design, in my opinion. If I had never used an Arca, I imagine I would have been satisfied by the Sinar, but having used the Arca, a Sinar for me, would have been less than ideal.

If you decide to go down the route you outlined, I doubt if you'll be disappointed.

mortensen
29-Jun-2012, 08:01
Thanks, everyone - I think I'll have to take the challenge :)

@ Frank, I can't find the thread you refer to - do you have a link?

@ Gudmundur, you're probably right that Denmark is flooded with Sinars, but again I would really like geared front tilt - and Arca's orbix is, AFAIK, the only system providing that.

@ Joseph: so, a model C is the 'latest' I can use in conjunction with F-line parts? Can I slide a modes C funtion carrier on to a F-line rail for instance?

jb7
29-Jun-2012, 08:31
@ Joseph: so, a model C is the 'latest' I can use in conjunction with F-line parts? Can I slide a modes C funtion carrier on to a F-line rail for instance?

As far as I know, the function carriers and rails are interchangeable between the the earlier c types and the later F-Line. The latest style of rail has a deeper section, and will be stiffer than earlier rails, and would be the most suitable for an 8x10, though I use the older type. New ones are more expensive-

John Schneider
29-Jun-2012, 11:17
The only feature I preferred on the Sinar was the depth of field wheel on the focusing knob, a feature the Arca lacked.

You can easily make a dof knob for your Arca (or any camera). The principles are universal, but the example in the article uses an Arca, where it is particularly easy to implement:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/dofknob/


As far as I know, the function carriers and rails are interchangeable between the the earlier c types and the later F-Line.

Yes and no. There were three rail versions, the older low profile rails from the A/B/C models, a newer low profile rail (also available in folding form) from I believe the first F-Basic models, and the current high-profile model. The effective width of the new rail is about 0.030-0.050 wider than the old designs, so an older function carrier (the silver A/B/C models as well as the earlier black models with the protruding screws on the clamping unit) is very stiff to focus on a new design rail (unusably so IMO).

The solution is to shim out the nylon rail guides on the function carriers with a piece of brass shim stock; you have to play around with the amount of shimming to get it to fit right. Some older function carriers that a bit worn slide better than ones that haven't seen much use. Conversely, the current model function carriers seem to work fine on the older low profile rails. Precision Camera can modify older function carriers to work with the newer rails, but you can do it yourself and save the $$.

Frank Petronio
29-Jun-2012, 14:06
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?92344-FS-ARCA-8x10-Conversion-Home-Made-but-high-quality-for-a-low-price&highlight=8x10+Arca

Eric has been around the forum for a while and has a good rep but I do not know him ~ just pointing you to the obvious easy solution.

Have you ever used a geared tilt? It's nice but not that big a deal.

I do appreciate that modern F-line Arcas are better quality than Sinars. However finding parts and accessories takes longer and will be more expensive. If you are going for camera build quality then you should be looking for one of the Linhofs, they blow everything else away and some models are not ridiculously bulky, I have seen a very simple, clean 8x10 model whose model ID escapes me.

The older ABC Arcas can be a good value but build quality was never their strong suit. But I did own a $600 8x10 Arca C that was an excellent user and frankly, the best value ever in a light 8x10 field. Last year someone begged to sell theirs for under $1000 and it took them months because people don't recognize a good thing when it is right in front of their nose.

Why not just be patient and get one of those?

Rod Klukas
30-Jun-2012, 13:29
Find a 4x5 171 series camera, then get a Arca-format kit or some other 8x10 back and bellows and change to fit.
This is a great way to go for used set up.
Rod

mortensen
4-Jul-2012, 06:03
... at delayed thanks to all of you - the Bastard Arca starts to form in my mind.
I think I'll look for a Sinar format conversion set and Arca carriers and build an adapter. Lensfielders, this forum and arca-shop.de seems like sources a plenty. So I'll start slowly, part for part.