PDA

View Full Version : A clutch of dirty Antique Shop Lenses - what are they?



Tim Meisburger
27-Jun-2012, 13:14
I was wandering though an antique store recently and came across some beat-up brass lenses (which I bought). When the owner knew my interest, he went upstairs and came down with a variety of other LF-related items. I don't know much about them, but happily bought them (for too much money), seduced by gleaming brass. When I dragged the lenses home and started looking at them closely I realized I might have wasted my money, as the glass on most seem to have problems, and one is missing an element. Here they are.

76228
J.H. Dallmeyer
London
No. 17036
Patent
I
About 90mm f4 and 180 f8 with the front element removed. Seems to cover 5x7, no diaphragm or provision for stops. What is it? Is it a camera lens or something else? Any idea of age?

76227
Unmarked Petzval. I checked to see if the elements would unscrew, but was in a dark shop and bought it without really checking it out. Big mistake, as when I got it home I realized it would not create an image. I pulled it apart and then realized it was missing the rear air-spaced element. Not sure what I can do with it now, unless I can find someone with an extra 2 5/8 in diameter rear element. I can get an image with the front element alone, so at least I could make a meniscus lens.

76225

76226

Fujinar-SC 1:4.7 25cm 132277 in a well-functioning Copal 3. The lens elements have numerous cleaning wisps and the internal elements look dirty, but I cannot figure out how to disassemble those (if its even possible).

more in the next post.

Tim Meisburger
27-Jun-2012, 13:30
7622976230

5x7 Bausch and Lomb Tessar Series 1c Pat. Feb. 24, 1903 No. 2448129 f4.5, 7 ˝”
It has haze on internal elements and a couple chips out of the front element. Not sure if it is possible to disassemble further?, or if it is even worth trying to shoot as is.

76232

Ross London Patent, 15in Homocentric 1:6.3, No. 115659
Again, this lens has haze on internal elements. I took a test shot of my son, and it has great bokeh wide open, but looks soft (probably from the haze?)

76231

Dallmeyer 3b, London, f3, No. 118902, rear flange focus about 7”

This one is in good shape, although the soft-focus ring does not turn. Weirdly, this and the petzval were the only ones not polished. This cost me a lot of money, but I'm pretty happy with it, and plan to rig up a special lens board so I can mount it on my 5x7 B&J and give it a try.

Tim Meisburger
27-Jun-2012, 13:39
One more. These are not lenses, but lens-related.
762337623476235

This is an unused or almost unused flash powder holder. You load the powder in the box, wind it up and pull the trigger and the steel wheel spins over a lighter flint making the spark to ignite the powder. Just like a Zippo (for you older gents) powered by clockwork. I wish I could get flash powder here to give it a try. Not sure how old it is, but I would guess the 1940s.

76237

I also bought these front mounted roller-blind shutters. The smaller one works well, while the larger on is a bit temperamental, and needs the blind replaced (I painted over some holes in the cloth so I could give it a try). I had never seen these before, but they are an elegant solution for all those shutterless lenses I have lying around. For smaller lenses I have been able to cut wooden tuits to adapt them to the larger hole. Any idea where I could get these repaired?

vinny
27-Jun-2012, 14:06
eddie could sell these for 3x what you paid:)

Wojtekred
27-Jun-2012, 14:10
Regarding the roller-blind shutter this (http://www.paulewins.com/old_site/resources/tp_shutter.htm) might be of some help to You.

Tim Meisburger
27-Jun-2012, 14:29
Thanks Wojtekred. That helps a lot with understanding how they work. Although mine are Japanese, and designed to slide on to the end of a lens, rather than be mounted behind it, they appear to be mechanically identical.

drew.saunders
27-Jun-2012, 16:03
Fujinar-SC 1:4.7 25cm 132277 in a well-functioning Copal 3. The lens elements have numerous cleaning wisps and the internal elements look dirty, but I cannot figure out how to disassemble those (if its even possible).


I have a Fujinar 25cm f4.7 in a Copal 3S shutter. If you don't have the retaining ring, it's important to know it's a 3S, not a regular 3. It's a Tessar design, so the rear elements are cemented together, and the front two are air spaced, so you may not have to worry too much about the dirt. It's single coated, which might explain the cleaning marks. If you use a hood on it (it's threaded for a normal modern filter, I think 67mm, but mine's at home), you should be able to mitigate any flare problems from the cleaning wisps and the single coating. I've been quite happy with mine. In good shape, they go for $180-200 or so, yours would go for a bit less with the cleaning marks.

Tim Meisburger
27-Jun-2012, 16:29
Thanks Drew. Is it possible to separate the two air-spaced elements?

I do have the retaining ring. The shutter is nice, and probably worth more alone than the lens. When I was in Myanmar recently I saw the same lens in barrel for $60. I recall it as being in fairly good shape, so if I go back sometime I might take the shutter and see if the elements from that one would fit. According to the internet it covers 10x12, so is perhaps overkill for 5x7...

Joe Smigiel
27-Jun-2012, 21:53
A Dallmeyer 3B just sold on Ebay for $1,711 (auction # 120932572104) so unless you regularly walk around with that sort of chump change in your pocket, I'd guess you got a pretty good deal.

davehyams
27-Jun-2012, 22:43
yeah that 3b was very similar, too rich for my blood, but they are wonderful lenses. good find, interesting to see what lenses traveled where.

Tim Meisburger
27-Jun-2012, 23:20
Interestingly, on that ebay one the name is in cursive, as it is on the small lens in my first post, while on my 3B it is engraved in a very plain font. Don't know what that signifies.

Joe, I couldn't have bought any of that stuff with cash on hand. Luckily, in Thailand they accept plastic;)

Steven Tribe
28-Jun-2012, 01:26
The 3B is the late model with turn of the whole front barrel. This should be no problem (just time, lubricant and careful torque) to fix.
Hell, I made a 3B from cells alone!
The other Dallmeyer is a problem. Doesn't seem to fit in anywhere. This may be one for Seán?
Perhaps one of a pair of Patent Stereographic (Petzvals)? These were made with efl less than 4".

Tim Meisburger
28-Jun-2012, 03:14
Thanks Steven. It somehow reminds me of stereo pairs I have seen before, but I think it odd it has no provision for stops, unless it used washer stops?

After hearing how much that 3b sold for on ebay I was thinking of selling this one, but I screwed the old lensboard to the front of my B&J and took three shots around the house and just developed the negatives and they look great! They are hanging now, but if they re as good when I print them as they look now, I might have trouble letting go of this...

Steven Tribe
28-Jun-2012, 03:44
The serial number is well past the date for Waterhouse stops.
The design might make sense if you could see which stereo camera it was mounted on. Will ask Seán as the ledgers often have data on to whom it was sold.

Tim Meisburger
28-Jun-2012, 06:08
Okay. Who is Sean? Does he work at Dallmeyer? I thought 17,036 would have been a relatively early number, as the 3b is in the hundred thousands, but maybe it doesn't work that way. There used to be a list of the serial numbers with dates online, but I cannot find it anymore.

eddie
28-Jun-2012, 06:22
nice work tim!

sell t hat dallmeyer....the money will go far in thailand....buying more beer for me!

bwah ha ha ha!

Steven Tribe
28-Jun-2012, 08:36
This has been up before (many times!), but Seán in the UK has a complete copy of the Dallmeyer production/sales ledgers for Dallmeyer in the 19th century.
The 3B was such a standard studio "fixture", that it continued in production for a very long time with various designs of soft adjustment and, later, the machine type engraving. I only bother him with the first 20 years or so of production which usually have very incomplete engraved information and few catalogues.

Steven Tribe
28-Jun-2012, 13:00
Tim, 17036 started it's life in July 1871 as a size 1, wideangle landscape (patent) lens.
It was sold to Meagher ( a quality camera retailer).
It was born with rotary stops (according to Seán) - that is, the maximum aperture was heavily restricted (F15). Covers ( 1881 and 1890 catalogues). Covers a little over half plate. It is not one of a stereo pair as this is always given in the ledger entries if it is the case.
I have seen these with rotary stops but perhaps the extra heading in the 1881 catalogue gives the clue:

"The lenses are mounted in Rigid tubes or settings, with rotary stops".
This could be interpreted in 2 ways - rigid tubes without rotary stop OR rigid tubes, also with rotary stops?

Tim Meisburger
28-Jun-2012, 17:48
Thanks Steven. This information is really interesting. Obviously, the front lens is tightly constricted by its metal housing:

76294

What may be less apparent from my previous picture is that there is also an internal constriction (like a brass washer) of a similar size just in front of the rear element (the rear element, unlike the front, is the full diameter of the barrel). I have not tried to punch that out, but I wonder if it is removable so that other, now lost, apertures could be inserted. Alternatively, if it is fixed, it would be relatively easy to make washer stops that would slip in behind the fixed stop.

76295

Tim Meisburger
28-Jun-2012, 17:55
Eddie, that would keep us in beer a long time (or maybe not). I may sell it, but probably not before Christmas, when I am back in the US on holiday. Or I may never sell it, as the images from it look quite sweet. But if I keep it, I'll have to buy a decent 5x7 or 8x10.

Do you think I should polish it? Most of them I see are quite shiny. From the state of this one, I guess it is missing its varnish already (which looks present on the ends).

eddie
29-Jun-2012, 05:26
Eddie, that would keep us in beer a long time (or maybe not). I may sell it, but probably not before Christmas, when I am back in the US on holiday. Or I may never sell it, as the images from it look quite sweet. But if I keep it, I'll have to buy a decent 5x7 or 8x10.

Do you think I should polish it? Most of them I see are quite shiny. From the state of this one, I guess it is missing its varnish already (which looks present on the ends).

i work as an auto body repair man. i polish stuff all day long. NO WAY am i polishing anything after hours!

AND i prefer the lenses in their original found state. i like em looking old. many people polish them. a member and i have an ongoing conversation about this exact topic......he continues to point out that the shiny ones get more at auction (from our unscientific observations that is).

call me when you are stateside.

Tim Meisburger
29-Jun-2012, 06:07
I seem to have no reverence for old. I feel like the craftsman who made the lens (or the camera or the house, etc) would want it to look nice, and we honor his workmanship when we care for his product. But then sometimes I feel like we should just burn down that old house, or shoot them old film holders with a shotgun, cause if we don't, modern carpenters and film holder makers won't have a job (I used to work as a carpenter and really hated remodeling ancient houses. nothing worse than pulling down an old plaster ceiling and sucking up 100 years of black dust).

But I agree, I have no desire to polish a lens... I'd rather shoot it.

On another issue, I am surprised no one has commented on the flash lamp, especially after the heated discussion we had on the danger of flash powder. Have you ever seen one like it before?

Tim Meisburger
30-Jun-2012, 07:43
Hmm.. I just wrote a For Sale ad for the Dallmeyer 3b, for $1700 (the price based on the recent one sold on ebay). That's a lot of money, and I shoot 4x5, and I need a new camera, and I'm going to Europe (Milan) next weekend on a family holiday so I could post it from there. It just makes sense, but after I wrote it I couldn't post it. I was worried someone would actually buy it. Damn...

Mark Sawyer
30-Jun-2012, 14:23
The Dallmeyer will hold its value. Use it for a while, then decide...

eddie
30-Jun-2012, 19:12
Hmm.. I just wrote a For Sale ad for the Dallmeyer 3b, for $1700 (the price based on the recent one sold on ebay). That's a lot of money, and I shoot 4x5, and I need a new camera, and I'm going to Europe (Milan) next weekend on a family holiday so I could post it from there. It just makes sense, but after I wrote it I couldn't post it. I was worried someone would actually buy it. Damn...


Maybe try 2350$. That should make u feel better! :)

Tim Meisburger
30-Jun-2012, 21:18
Yes, that would make me feel better!

Maybe I'll sell the flash lamp instead...