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Bill, 70's military B&W
19-Jun-2012, 14:29
What should I be lubricating on a B&J view camera, and what product should I be using?
Thanks, Bill

jose angel
19-Jun-2012, 14:41
Avoid smelly grase... or strong smell ones. They could make you mad. I have lubricated my Technika with bicycle white grease (to keep it clean). It turned to a strange odour, and even after removing and cleaning the grease, the ugly smell is there...
I bought then another brand (minty smell) with similar awkward results.

BrianShaw
19-Jun-2012, 14:54
I recently bought a teflon lube at a bicycle shop. It comes out a milky liquid and quickly evaporates to a dry teflon film. Worked great for the focus rails of my Speed Graphic.

E. von Hoegh
19-Jun-2012, 14:58
Avoid smelly grase... or strong smell ones. They could make you mad. I have lubricated my Technika with bicycle white grease (to keep it clean). It turned to a strange odour, and even after removing and cleaning the grease, the ugly smell is there...
I bought then another brand (minty smell) with similar awkward results.

That's great. The grease will attract dust and grit from the surrounding 5000 square miles, and the resultant grinding paste will wear your lovely camera out in no time.

For wooden cameras, I use a blend of graphite and beeswax. I'll be trying the teflon Brian mentioned for tripods and other things that have to remain as dust free as possible. It would also be good on wooden cameras.

Leigh
19-Jun-2012, 16:01
The teflon lube that Brian mentioned would be a good choice.

Generally cameras want a minimum of lubrication. There are exceptions of course; one should consult the manufacturer.

- Leigh

John Koehrer
19-Jun-2012, 16:12
Any hard wax will do it. Bees wax, ski wax, carnauba car or floor wax, Paraffin.
Pretty much any grease is not a real great idea.

TheDeardorffGuy
19-Jun-2012, 16:53
On Deardorffs I use the exact grease the company used. Lubriplate 630. On the wood bearing surfaces use Pariffin.
The point of lubriplate is that it sticks and does not evaporate. I recomend every year but I looked at my lube records for my heavy used V8 and it was 4 years ago. It still runs fine. If you can't find 630 any lubriplate will be fine. 630 is VERY thick.

BrianShaw
19-Jun-2012, 17:08
Lubriplate is a classic and well-proven product. Some of the newer products, however, are as effective if not more effective. Tradition is great but technological improvements are oftem well worth considering.

BrianShaw
19-Jun-2012, 17:15
P. S. I seem to recall that Graphlex also originally specified Lubriplate as their grease

Leigh
19-Jun-2012, 17:18
Tradition is great but technological improvements are oftem well worth considering.
I agree in theory.

However, I'm obliged to point out that nobody here has the ability to evaluate a lubricant for a particular application.

That requires a facility with a well-trained staff of scientists, engineers, and technicians, and a multi-million dollar budget.

Sticking with existing recommendations will quite likely result in many years of reliable service.

- Leigh

BrianShaw
19-Jun-2012, 17:47
For critical applications you are quite right. Cameras are not critical applications. It doesn't take a team of scientists and engineers to validate the substitution of a modern high-quality teflon lubricant in place of a traditional grease when the result is a smoothly moving mechanism that shows a higher likelihood of not attracting grit. Satellites and pacemakers are different stories. :)

DennisD
19-Jun-2012, 18:06
Be especially careful when lubricating parts made of plastic or nylon, I.e. gears, etc. Many lubricants are not plastic friendly and can cause problems ranging from discoloration to weakening to destruction. In these cases mineral oil based lubricants, synthetic or silicone lubricants might be recommended.

Above all, follow the manufacturer's recommendation.

Below is a link with related information:
http://motionsystemdesign.com/mechanical-pt/lubrication-tips-plastic-gears-0894/

Leigh
19-Jun-2012, 18:08
I already said that Teflon was a good choice (post #5).

Lubricants in general are complicated products, with additives for particular purposes. It's not just oil in a bottle.

- Leigh

Bill, 70's military B&W
19-Jun-2012, 18:48
Thanks to everyone, I've got a lot to read and experiment with. I knew that WD-40 and 3n1 oil were not the answer.
Bill

Leigh
19-Jun-2012, 19:06
WD-40 is paraffin dissolved in a carrier that evaporates, but the smell remains. :D

- Leigh

BrianShaw
19-Jun-2012, 19:07
Leigh, we understand each other. I was reacting a bit to the absolutism and trying to temper it with a distinction between critical lube conditions and everything else. For anyone faced with lube selection decisions sticking with a spec'd lube is a good approach. But there are few products for non-critical applications that don't have reasonable alternatives. As mentioned by you and others in the myriad threads on this topic, having a lube that is compatible with the intended application is essential. Fortunate for us is the www on which application guides are readily available to find n acceptable lube for almost any situation. Most of these application guides are written for a smart reader but not necessarily requiring a Ph.D. To understand.

Peace, brother!

Leigh
19-Jun-2012, 19:18
Hi Brian,

I think we agree.

My main concern is the volatiles in many products.
I have no idea how they might affect sensitized products or lens coatings as they out-gas over time.

- Leigh

Bill, 70's military B&W
19-Jun-2012, 19:30
Leigh and Brian, The out putting of gas is very important! My brother and I bought a couple of brief cases, for pistol cases. We lined them with foam rubber and glued in a soft vinyl. Only glue we had was white Elmers. Got the project done and he put his gun in his case and went home. Lucky for me I did not. About a week later he opened his case and the gun was rusted beyond repair. Those fumes ATE that pistol. Just passing it along so that maybe it will save someone else.
Bill

BrianShaw
19-Jun-2012, 19:45
In a confined environment like a gun case outgassing sure can be problematic. Same as in a vacuum environment like outer space. In an open environment, not so much.

BrianShaw
19-Jun-2012, 19:47
P.S. It may have been the foam or vynal outgassing as much or more than the glue. Buut no matter, what a bad experience.

Bill Burk
19-Jun-2012, 20:00
Here's a practical reason to avoid beeswax. It flakes. Lands on film. Causes pinholes that you have to retouch on neg.

Don't ask how I know.

Leigh
19-Jun-2012, 21:15
In a confined environment like a gun case outgassing sure can be problematic.
Field cameras spend most of their lives closed, so the fumes can build up.

The same is true to a lesser extent with the interior of all other LF cameras.

- Leigh

Kirk Gittings
19-Jun-2012, 22:09
I'm sure it somewhat depends on where you live. If, like me, you live in an environment that is dusty and with wind blown sand on your camera routinely you might want to stay away from lubricants like grease or oil that traps and holds dust and sand in your gearing. I believe I was the first one on this forum to recommend the "dry lube" bicycle type of lubricant (2006) like Pedro's Ice Wax that Brian mentioned above. I started using it on my VCs after years of experience with it on the chains of racing mountain bikes. I have used it now for like 15 years on my VCs and would not consider using anything but such a "dry lube" in the Southwest.

andreios
19-Jun-2012, 22:53
Sorry to sort of hi-jack this thread - but how about lubricating tripod heads? I have a quite old and work FOBA 3-way head - the screws are very stiff, it is sometimes almost difficult to tighten them so that the head would hold steady in some positions. I was afraid using e.g. the mentioned WD40, fearing that if it leaked from the screws to the joints(? I don't know the proper term for the moveable parts of the 3way head) that it might loose it's ability to fasten.. Has anyone experience with this?
Thank you

jose angel
20-Jun-2012, 00:07
I`m almost sure the smelly grease I used for my camera was Teflon based (at least one of them). I don`t have the can here, but I can check them.
My father use to like a Teflon based oil (spray, -not thick grease-). Very clean, odourless, but too thin for a geared mechanism to my taste.

Well, that`s true that grease attracts dust, but a camera is not something to be in contact with dirt like a bike chain... one should take care of the camera, isn`t it? :)

I think I lubricated my Sinar with silicone grease. It`s odourless and transparent. My only issue with it is that the knobs and controls got too loose, too much soft kind of grease.
Graphite powder is great, but the lasting life is extremely short. It simply falls with use. And I try to remember that it was recommended -only if needed- for the Canham (I read somewhere that Keith Canham adviced against the use of lubricants on their cameras, and specially against the use of any kind of grease).

If you work under hot climates, you have to check grease thickness, as they get softer as the temperature grows.

Sevo
20-Jun-2012, 02:18
Sorry to sort of hi-jack this thread - but how about lubricating tripod heads?

Some have dry plastics (PTFE or HDPE) bearings - if you find any plastics disks when taking it apart, clean them. If they prove to be rough or worn, apply some PTFE powder spray (or certified plastics safe silicone grease).

Old school tripod heads need lubrication with a friction grease. As I don't want to pile up a whole assortment of special greases, I use the tube of lens helicoid lube that I already have around - this is a bit on the light side and more expensive than necessary. If you have something more heavy at hand, it would be even more appropriate.

Cor
20-Jun-2012, 03:25
Andreios,

Do you have a FOBA head like this: FOBA ASMIA DUAL-TILTING-HEAD (http://glennview.com/jpgs/tripod/heads/foba/small_1.jpg) ?

I have one, and initially I had the same problem you describe, I do not take it apart, but after using it it started to behave better, it would stay in position without using excessive force. Maybe you should exercise the head a bit ? :)

Best,

Cor



Sorry to sort of hi-jack this thread - but how about lubricating tripod heads? I have a quite old and work FOBA 3-way head - the screws are very stiff, it is sometimes almost difficult to tighten them so that the head would hold steady in some positions. I was afraid using e.g. the mentioned WD40, fearing that if it leaked from the screws to the joints(? I don't know the proper term for the moveable parts of the 3way head) that it might loose it's ability to fasten.. Has anyone experience with this?
Thank you

Sevo
20-Jun-2012, 04:20
I was afraid using e.g. the mentioned WD40, fearing that if it leaked from the screws to the joints(? I don't know the proper term for the moveable parts of the 3way head) that it might loose it's ability to fasten..

Loosening the head as a whole aside, I'd avoid WD40 for its rot factor. It sure is nice as a water displacing oil for heavy steel machinery, but it is no suitable grease for precision mechanics, nor for aluminium parts or plastics.

You probably do not want to loosen the screws, but rather prevent them from seizing - a "copper paste" separating grease (e.g. used to protect steel in aluminium or vice versa screws against seizing) might be suitable there.

BrianShaw
20-Jun-2012, 06:14
Field cameras spend most of their lives closed, so the fumes can build up.

The same is true to a lesser extent with the interior of all other LF cameras.

- Leigh

Ya, I guess you're right. But only for photographers who spend most of their time chatting on the photo forums. Har har har.

Louis Pacilla
20-Jun-2012, 08:04
I like to slather all my cameras in butter. Hard to handle until on tripod but after attached the camera and it's movements are ... well smooth as "butter" ;)

Oh yea. Just in case. I"M KIDDING. DO NOT SLATHER YOUR CAMERA IN BUTTER.

E. von Hoegh
20-Jun-2012, 08:51
I like to slather all my cameras in butter. Hard to handle until on tripod but after attached the camera and it's movements are ... well smooth as "butter" ;)

Oh yea. Just in case. I"M KIDDING. DO NOT SLATHER YOUR CAMERA IN BUTTER.

Correct. Do not use butter. Boiled linseed oil is better, better still is a 50/50 mix of linseed and tung oils; apply this to the tracks and locking mechanisms and you'll never have to worry.

BrianShaw
20-Jun-2012, 08:52
Oh dear God... another advocate for fixed-focus cameras.

E. von Hoegh
20-Jun-2012, 08:56
Oh dear God... another advocate for fixed-focus cameras.

Hey, a Deardorff is just a big box camera made of nice wood. Youll still have the rear focus to work with... all you need for 12" and shorter lenses.

andreios
22-Jun-2012, 13:07
Andreios,

Do you have a FOBA head like this: FOBA ASMIA DUAL-TILTING-HEAD (http://glennview.com/jpgs/tripod/heads/foba/small_1.jpg) ?

I have one, and initially I had the same problem you describe, I do not take it apart, but after using it it started to behave better, it would stay in position without using excessive force. Maybe you should exercise the head a bit ? :)

Best,

Cor

Cor, thank you, yes, that`s the head, practically.. (some older version, the knobs look different, but it is the same construction). I'll try to exercise it a bit - I confess the head and the camera that sits on it have had a very long rest... But I hope to take them out in the morning..

andreios
22-Jun-2012, 13:09
Some have dry plastics (PTFE or HDPE) bearings - if you find any plastics disks when taking it apart, clean them. If they prove to be rough or worn, apply some PTFE powder spray (or certified plastics safe silicone grease).

Old school tripod heads need lubrication with a friction grease. As I don't want to pile up a whole assortment of special greases, I use the tube of lens helicoid lube that I already have around - this is a bit on the light side and more expensive than necessary. If you have something more heavy at hand, it would be even more appropriate.

Sevo, I don't think there is any plastic in the head.. Far too heavy for it.. I'll try to find some friction grease (after I figure out the translation so that I know what to look for :-) )Thank you

Sevo
22-Jun-2012, 15:37
Microtools have quite a variety of them: http://www.micro-tools.de/en/Greases-Oils/Lubricant-Grease-Nyogel-2oz-Tube.html might be the one that you want (at any rate that is the stuff that does not alter the action of video "fluid" heads). But that may depend on the head and whether it has some other damping mechanism built-in.

Drew Wiley
26-Jun-2012, 10:02
I thought fluid heads were meant for underwater use.