8x10 Burke and James View Camera, advice

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

I just acquired a B&J 8x10, it has a 4x5 sliding back on it. No 8x10 GG, or film holders, or lens. It has been stored in a garage for years. I checked the bellows with a flashlight and found no leaks, there is gaffers tape on every corner. Question is, is it worth finding GG, back, lens, film holders...etc, to get it up and working? It has all movements, front and back. It is rather crude, old, and needs a little TLC(soap, water and lubrication), but it all works and is solid. Now what should I do with it. I do not have the intention of ever having a 8x10 enlarger, but contact prints of that caliber sure would be nice. But is it worth the cost to revamp this one? What would be the cost?
Thanks, Bill

[Ari]

You might find that replacing individual parts cost about the same as would the camera.
Still, if you're interested in trying 8x10, you should go for it.
A number of Chinese manufacturers have become prominent on eBay, selling their bellows, ground glass, etc.
It might be worth a look to try and price what you need before committing to a full restoration.

As you probably know already, everything with 8x10 is more expensive than with 4x5.

[Jim Jones]

At least it should have a long bellows in relation to that 4x5 back. That might make it worth while for a few applications like macro photography. If you are handy with tools, an 8x10 back shouldn't be difficult to make. The same for a GG. For pinhole photography, forget the back and GG, and bungee cord a film holder in place.

[Mark Sawyer]

The B&J 8x10 is a great camera to use, though it's not a collector's item. It may look crude and clunky, but it's very utilitarian; it's very stable and strongly built, and it handles movements better than many cameras in the "cult" status ranks. It's also one of the easiest cameras to work on or restore, thanks to it's simplicity. Watch ebay for an 8x10 back that fits.

[jp]

Once in a while an 8x10 back (with ground glass) will sell for $100 or so here or ebay. You're gonna have to get film holders and lens for any 8x10 setup except perhaps pinhole. Sometimes old cameras come with a packard shutter in the front because the seller thinks it's part of the camera, in whice case you'd be able to use $100 barrel lenses like a 100yo tessar or the wollaston meniscus. Otherwise shuttered lenses for 8x10 start at $350-400.

[ic-racer]

I just acquired a B&J 8x10, it has a 4x5 sliding back on it. No 8x10 GG, or film holders, or lens. It has been stored in a garage for years. I checked the bellows with a flashlight and found no leaks, there is gaffers tape on every corner. Question is, is it worth finding GG, back, lens, film holders...etc, to get it up and working? It has all movements, front and back. It is rather crude, old, and needs a little TLC(soap, water and lubrication), but it all works and is solid. Now what should I do with it. I do not have the intention of ever having a 8x10 enlarger, but contact prints of that caliber sure would be nice. But is it worth the cost to revamp this one? What would be the cost?
Thanks, Bill

I started with something worse than that. Did not cost much to fix it up.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?29267-Here-we-go-Century-8x10-Restoration

[IanG]

Many of us restore cameras that look total basket cases at ver little cost. My current project is a TP Ruby reflex and it was as bad as described by the ebay seller, if not worse as the mirror box and camera body were cracked, but then it was dirt cheap (£20/$31) :D The most expensive part of this particular restoration is a new front surface mirror £16/$25, followed by the fabric to recover the camera and the new shutter curtains less thann £5/$8. This a big restoration but inexpensive.

Some of those Burke & James camears look much nicer when they've lost the battleship grey paint.

There's plent of info on this website and if ypu place wanted adverts for missing parts here or on APUG there's some very helpful people around. You might look at this page (on this website). (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/burke-james/restore8x10.html)

Ian

[Drew Bedo]

Bill,

Check your PM In-Box.

[John Kasaian]

B&J is a perfectly usable camera. 8x10 Backs come and go on ebay and you might even find them at places like MidWest Photo or Equinox or Photo-Graphic Systems. You can probably find some vintage glass such as a Turner Riech for not too much money, or if you happen on a 240 G Claron barrel lens for cheap you can put it in a shutter yourself. The 240 G Claron is a very useful lens on an 8x10. Fillm holders have become kind of pricey laley, but I've seen some listened in the for sale section that seem to be reasonably priced. If you're on a budget check out Arista.edu Ultra or even( cheaper) x-ray film. You will need a pretty substantial tripod for it however.
The biggest danger is that 8x10 will spoil you. Really.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

I'm not afraid of making a back for it, but first I've got to know, does the film holder slide in the same way on 8x10 as it does on 4x5? If so then I'll need to have everything at the same distance from the lens. I'll probably need special springs to hold the back on and allow it to accept the film holder. Right now the 4x5 does not seem to fit light tight. It's like some parts are missing. I'll have to research it.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Thanks, I've got a guy right now trying to sell me a B&J 5x7 Grover view camera, complete kit with aluminum box, don't know what lens it has yet, will see it tomorrow. It has film holders with it, again I do not know how many. Wants $275. I said I'd have to check the bellows and listen to the shutter, and of course look it over. If everything checks out how does that price sound?

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

I know nothing about Packard shutters, except that they are not all that expensive. Are they any good? Why doesn't everyone use them instead of the more expensive shuttered lenses? What is a good price for 8x10 film holders? I'd jump on a $100 back. This camera was in a package deal, a bonus. The thought of 8x10 contact prints is exciting.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

ic-racer, I just read your thread, all I can say is WOW!!! You did a great job, and I learned a great deal. My B&J will be simple to work on compared to that beauty of yours. All I will need is some grey paint.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

IanG, I just read the article on restoring a B&J 8x10. It was very interesting and just what I needed. Thanks, I am learning, I'll be looking at my "Free Camera" in a different light now. There is potential in it!
Bill

[premortho]

Sure Packard shutters are good. I've been using them for almost sixty years. They are air operated, so don't shake the camera when making the exposures. They are (usually) a time, bulb, and instantanious shutter Instant speed is usually in the neighborhood of 1/20 th second. By choosing film speed for various conditions, the instnt speed is not much of a problem.
I know nothing about Packard shutters, except that they are not all that expensive. Are they any good? Why doesn't everyone use them instead of the more expensive shuttered lenses? What is a good price for 8x10 film holders? I'd jump on a $100 back. This camera was in a package deal, a bonus. The thought of 8x10 contact prints is exciting.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

premortho,
I picked up a B&J 5x7 Grover, and it came with a Voigtlander Collinear Series ii no. 6 f 6.3 focus 12 1/2 inch, and I believe a Packard Shutter. I do not have the bulb or little hose/attachment, so I do not know if it works or not. The lens comes apart and the glass is clean. I'm trying to learn something about that lens. It looks like if it was a "No. 8" it would be worth a lot of money. Have not found anything on the No. 6 yet.

[Louis Pacilla]

premortho,
I picked up a B&J 5x7 Grover, and it came with a Voigtlander Collinear Series ii no. 6 f 6.3 focus 12 1/2 inch, and I believe a Packard Shutter. I do not have the bulb or little hose/attachment, so I do not know if it works or not. The lens comes apart and the glass is clean. I'm trying to learn something about that lens. It looks like if it was a "No. 8" it would be worth a lot of money. Have not found anything on the No. 6 yet.

Hey Bill

The lens is a nice high quality Voigtlander Dagor copy with very good coverage stopped down. Something like 80-85 degrees for the series II stopped all the way down.

The other thing is at f6.3 it an very usable speed and will have a great draw at 12 1/2" FL on 5x7.

Also will be very useful as an all around lens on 8x10 if you go that direction and good as universal lens on 5x7 on the longer side FL wise.

Good score man!

You would do well to post photos of the parts your trying to figure out.

Do you need the tube and air bulb to open and close the shutter?

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Louis,
I just had some time to look up Packard shutters, and it is not a Packard. Wrong design. I found Acme written on a dial. Does that mean anything??? Do I CLA this shutter??? Or do I mount it into a better shutter, and if that is the case how does this NEWBIE go about doing that. I live in a small town so the only option is mailing it away or doing it myself. What approx would that cost? Any suggestions? The Acme shutter does not look very promising, not beat up or anything, just very ancient and I'd guess not very reliable at reproducing consistent shutter speeds. I will be the first to say that I have no knowledge or experience to back that up. Which is why I am writing the board.

I've got a lens that is sounding better every minute, now what do I do with it? I have both a 5x7 and an 8x10. I have not used either yet.

[Michael Clark]

Bill, don't know the size of your lens and so do'nt know what size shutter it would fit inn. The Acme shutter you mentioned is made by Ilex and there are different size's #1,2,3,4, ect. Here is a site that might be of help http://www.butkus.org/chinon/ilex/ilex_acme_shutter/ilex_acme_shutter.htm Mr Butkus has spent a great deal of time and energy collecting this info an is a great site when in need of information on the older equipment.

Mike

[premortho]

The Ilex Acme is a good shutter, but probably should be cleaned lubed and adjusted. Any first class shutter tech will be able to get it tuned up again. These are tough and long lived shutters.

[Louis Pacilla]

The Ilex Acme is a good shutter, but probably should be cleaned lubed and adjusted. Any first class shutter tech will be able to get it tuned up again. These are tough and long lived shutters.

Some of the very early Ilex Acme shutters had troubles. But the later rim set Acme shutters (which are most of them we see) are fine shutters. But a CLA will not hurt even if it runs semi OK.

So What premortho said.

[roresteen]

I just saw this post...I have a 5x7 Grover...it's a beast but solid...if the bellows is good, then $275.00 for the camera alone seems lie a good buy.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Thanks to everyone,
If I were going to CLA this Ilex Acme shutter, where would I send it and what would be a good price?
Bill

[premortho]

Have you tried the shutter and diaphram to see if it is not working correctly? I'm not sure if I have the name right, but Carol Flutot comes to mind. She's on the west coast. Once this shutter of yours is CLA'd, it should last you a lifetime.:D

[premortho]

Bill, I should have said that if you were in your early twenties, a good cla should make it last a lifetime or two!

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

The shutter is not working, the diaphragm is very smooth. Thanks for the info, I checked and Carol Flutot has her prices listed, CLA for $65-75.
Here is her contact info

http://flutotscamerarepair.com/index.htm

I'll be contacting her next week.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

premortho, I just spoke with Carol Flutot, she said to say "Hi" to the Forum. In her opinion, this Acme shutter is not worth fixing. Maybe it's just the wrong model, too old.
Now I've got another lens without a shutter. Is that a common problem?

[John Koehrer]

Another technician for view camera shutters is Paul Ebel in Wisconsin.
It's probably(?) worth fixing than replacing. As in finding the correct size. IDK
The Packard is a quick & easy solution but not all Packards have the "I" speed and are B and "depends how fast you squeeze the bulb".
Two other options are a "drop shutter" and "roller blind" shutter. Both of these fit on the front of the lens. The drop shutter is a pretty easy DIY project with material from a hobby shop. Model aircraft plywood(6X12) and styrene sheet(8X10) they both come in different thicknesses and can be worked with something like a utility knife.
A little black paint to finish it up.

[premortho]

These shutters are from 60 to 100 years old. So some of them are past fixing. You need to find a shutter repair service that has a lot of Acme parts, and let them fix it. So, if it was mine, I'd look at the speeds and see how many are there. Some only go to 1/50th. And old ones don't have flash synchro. Not that that's a big problem, there are plenty of solonoids on e-bay. But I'm cheap... I'd get a Packard shutter with the instant device, and mount it behind the lensboard.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Carol @ Fluotots said for me to send the Acme in with 2 other shutters I have for CLA and she'd look it over. I'm looking into the Packard shutter.
The broken Acme I have goes up to 1/300 sec.

[MIke Sherck]

Using a lens without a shutter is fairly common with view cameras, especially for 8x10 and larger. And, of course, most of those using very old lenses don't have shutters. What you need is a hat, or at least a not too tightly fitting lens cap. It's common for exposures to run 1 second or longer, and with practice you can be fairly accurate just taking the cover off (lens cap, hat, whatever) and then replacing it after the requisite time. It's a simple, elegant solution that works better than you might suppose.

Mike

[premortho]

Any Acme with 300 speed is a later one...well worth fixing. That said, remember these were used comercially and it's possible it's totally worn out.

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

John, I'll be giving Paul Ebel a call, Carol Flutot said probably not worth fixing. But with a shutter speed of 1/300, I will want to try and save it.
Your drop shutter looks very interesting, I answered with a bunch of questions.
Bill

[Bill, 70's military B&W]

Mike, with film and stopping down, I know it is easy to have long shutter speeds. But what about portrait work...etc...
I think that with some of my lenses, the collection is growing, I will be able to mount on home made lens boards and they will be great on landscapes using the cap/hat method.
Does anyone have a good way to make a light tight lens cap. I'll need to make several.
Bill