Cheapest Good B&W sheet film developing (someone to do it for me)?

[sully75]

Hello all,

So...JOBO drum or not, I really don't like developing film that much. I like the rest of the deal, don't mind scanning, but developing is a real chore.

The one lab I use for color charges $3 a sheet for 4x5 B&W, which is not totally crazy if you think about an hourly rate, probably takes me 1.5 hours to finish 10 B&W 4x5 negs in my jobo drum, so, 3 hours for $60 isn't a bad exchange.

I'm just wondering if there is anyone out there who might be cheaper and still be good. I'm guessing no but just wondering.

Thanks
Paul

[Frank Petronio]

All the labs look at one another's price lists and I doubt you'll find anyone significantly cheaper who is also any good.... You actually want a busy lab that can afford to do it right, as opposed to someone who might only do B&W once a week (old chemistry, lazy, out of practice, etc.)

[Ken Lee]

Perhaps the JOBO is the problem. I had one and got really tired of being able to do only 10 negatives at a time.

With an infra red viewing device (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/index.php#Monocular) and some sterilite shoe boxes (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/devtray.php), I routinely develop 20 or more sheets at a time.

It really helps when you can see what you're doing and when the trays are deep rather than wide - and let's not forget the dishrack film washer (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/dishrack.php) :)

I couldn't imagine having someone else develop my film. Not only because I want to use my own chemistry, but because development by inspection gives control over the development of the negative: a little more or less to bring out the best, and a lot more or less when preventing disasters and encountering surprises.

[jcoldslabs]

Pro Photo Supply here in Portland charges $2.00 per sheet for B&W 4x5.

http://www.prophotosupply.com/p-lab_price.htm

Jonathan

[Lenny Eiger]

I wish I had an answer for you. However, I will add that you want to choose someone who will soup things in a developer you actually like.... as in Xtol, or some Pyro variant, etc. The old time labs used a lot of DK-50, which wasn't so great, IMO. Your photos have a distinct quality and it will matter what they are developed in...

Lenny

[Tim Povlick]

I can't imagine sending out B&W for development as it's part of the fun. Trying different developers / time etc to match the subject / film / lighting.
A while back I sent some TechPan out to a lab that claimed they could handle it no problem, turns out they could not.

I use Jobo 3010 tank and the Combi-Plan. The development chore of hand rotation the Jobo tank was eliminated with a home make "Tank Rotation Device". One can set a timer and well away during the long development / fix / rinse cycles.

Best Regards,

Tim

[mdm]

Learning to develop film in a tray with an IR viewing device is definately worth the effort. Because you can see what you are doing you can learn easier not to scratch the film and also see the image develop so it is an interesting way to spend time. I use cheap 2 litre plastic lunch boxes for 5x7 and 4x5 with a thermometer and a waste sheet in the bottom so it is easy to remove the bottom sheet and to prevent the first sheet being marked or scratched. To tell the truth, I dont even black out the window of the laundry (though I live in the middle of nowhere and there are no other lights around except the moon and stars).

[Henry Ambrose]

I think sending off your film is a bad idea, so I have two words for you:

Tanks

Hangers

Its not a big deal to set up to run 24 sheets (or more) at a time.
And if you refine your procedure you should be able to make one run of 24 in less than an hour, easy.
Look for 6 of the 4-up hangers that fit into 8X10 tanks and some one gallon tanks with floating lids and covers to fit.

Xtol is $9.95 for 5 liters, in theory enough to process 200 4x5 sheets. (100ml stock per 80 sq. ins. of film, 80 sq. ins. = 4 sheets of 4x5)
You won't get this much because of the mixing and time requirements. 5 liters of Xtol diluted 1: 3 will give you 5 runs of 24 sheets or 120 sheets.
A gallon of mixed TF4 at $9.95 will fix all that film and lasts really well in a covered tank, a month for sure.
Only other thing you need is water.

So there you are, 5 runs resulting in 120 sheets of film in one month for $20.00. One run a week and an extra for good measure.
And you are in complete control of what you get.

[Jay DeFehr]

I don't think switching from Jobo drums to tanks and hangers is going to make processing film faster, cheaper, or better. Sure, you could run more sheets in a batch, but how often is that optimum? One of the great benefits of sheet film is the ability to develop each exposure optimally. How often do you have more than 10 sheets that should get the same development? How often do you have less than 10 sheets to process in a batch? I'm not anti-tank/hanger, but you already own the Jobo drum, and I don't think any theoretical benefits of tanks/hangers warrant re-investing in a new process.
As for economy, 100ml of 510-Pyro costs about the same as 5 liters of Xtol, but will develop 400 4x5 sheets of film, or more, whether you want to process one sheet in a batch, or ten, and there are no keeping issues.

But then, I don't see film processing as a major burden, either. Unfortunately, I think the economies of scale necessary to make film processing inexpensive compared to home processing are no longer possible, due to low demand, widely diffused. You'll probably have to decide whether you have more money or patience.;)

[sully75]

I think mostly I'm pissed off at myself for not really exposing a single sheet of film in probably 4 weeks after investing quite a bit. I think that's kind of a danger of buying stuff, if you just have a couple of things, you can kind of feel ok about letting them sit, but if you have good stuff, and you don't use it, you feel shitty. At least, that's me.

Also I have this project where I go and find strangers on the street and try to do good portraits of them. When it works I love the pictures but it's kind of difficult on an emotional level to get out there and do it. So I've been having a lot of brain farts about it. So I'm looking for excuses.

But I kinda do hate developing film, still. I just like the results.

[sully75]

Henry,

Don't want to start another flamey thread, but I've consistently heard people complain about uneven development from tanks and hangers.

The Jobo, from the little I've used it, does a really nice job, better than everything else I've tried.

Paul

[Ari]

I, too, dislike processing film; to me it's a chore, and I process BW and C-41 at home.
But I won't have anyone else process my film; I like the control over the process, and the considerable money I save goes to other things.

Best scenario: suck it up, and accept it as a necessary evil.

I know; it doesn't make me feel any better, either.

[Old-N-Feeble]

I never once had uneven development with 4x5 and single hangers... but I kept my hangers well-separated and used dilute Rodinal for longer development times. Early in the game I tried tray developing and hated it... uneven development and scratches.

[Henry Ambrose]

Henry,

Don't want to start another flamey thread, but I've consistently heard people complain about uneven development from tanks and hangers.

The Jobo, from the little I've used it, does a really nice job, better than everything else I've tried.

Paul

Sure, and keep in mind that the vast majority of sheet film processed commercially was done in hangers.
The complaints are generally based on poor technique. Its lots easier to complain on the 'net than to fix your problems yourself.

I think Ari's post nearby pretty much sums it up:

Best scenario: suck it up, and accept it as a necessary evil.

The other thing is you can set an arbitrary limit on how many sheets you shoot of each subject.
Since 10 sheets is your convenience limit in your Jobo, you could shoot 2 sheets each of 5 subjects to make one run of film.
That should create some discipline for you and you'll end up a better photographer.

[Jay DeFehr]

Paul, I really like your Stranger Portraits, and hope you'll return to the project. For me, anticipation always outweighs the drudgery of film processing. I hate being without film to process, as I am right now. Tonight I'll make some portraits with my new Sinar outfit, complete with reflex binocular viewer and 210 Symmar-S, and I can't wait to process the film!

[cdholden]

Its lots easier to complain on the 'net than to fix your problems yourself.


+1

[SpeedGraphicMan]

I could do it for you for a reasonable fee.

I don't have a JOBO but use a Unicolor drum.

I can do B&W, E-6, C-41.

[Jay DeFehr]

I could do it for you for a reasonable fee.

I don't have a JOBO but use a Unicolor drum.

I can do B&W, E-6, C-41.

I think the intent of this thread is to establish what is a reasonable fee.

I just processed the film from last night's portrait session, and it looks pretty great, drying. I am VERY happy with the reflex viewer -- I don't know how I got along without one!

[SpeedGraphicMan]

Well, lets see...

Maybe $1.00 US a sheet?

I would have to figure out what the exact cost to me was in chemicals/time.

[Jay DeFehr]

Well, lets see...

Maybe $1.00 US a sheet?

I would have to figure out what the exact cost to me was in chemicals/time.

Wow! That's beyond reasonable! I wouldn't touch a sheet for twice that. I might think of processing for 3X that, given a ten sheet minimum, but I'd probably regret it if anyone took me up on it.

[Ari]

Wow! That's beyond reasonable! I wouldn't touch a sheet for twice that. I might think of processing for 3X that, given a ten sheet minimum, but I'd probably regret it if anyone took me up on it.

Agreed.
Bad enough I have to process my own film for free!

[SpeedGraphicMan]

I enjoy time in the darkroom.

[Ari]

I enjoy time in the darkroom.

I do, too, if there's an enlarger involved.
I guess I like the immediacy.

[eddy pula]

I just read this thread, I've checked out Ken Lee's site before, but I thought he was joking about the night vision gear.... wow

[Frank Petronio]

I enjoy time in the darkroom.

If you do this, charge whatever you want but make it clear in correspondence that you are not responsible for anything, especially at a "bro" price like that! The client needs to be really chill if it screws up, not to get too dudish about it.

Even the most expensive labs don't warrant anything beyond the cost of their service and maybe, in a long shot, the film cost. Most of the problems are the photographer's error but the lab usually get blamed for those too.

[sully75]

I do, too, if there's an enlarger involved.
I guess I like the immediacy.

I never noticed any immediacy!

[Ari]

I meant the immediacy of developing prints vs the non-immediacy of developing negatives.

[SpeedGraphicMan]

I would be willing, but I would have to do all the math and write up an agreement, etc.

$1 a sheet was just a guesstimate.

If your interested, PM me and we can work something out.

[jnantz]

tanks and hangers is not a bad idea.
3quart tupperware is cheap at the dollar store and works great
hangers cost about 1$-2$ each

as long as you know what you are doing, and don't plunge your hangers with film into the chemistry
you are OK ... too many people do tanks n'hangers have no idea how to process film that way,
and freak out ...
like anything, you have to learn and be slow + deliberate.

i learned tanks/hangers processing hundreds of sheets of 5x7 film a day for a portrait photographer,
it is a good and consistent way to get great negatives. and a lot of developers can easily be used as a deep tank
developer. just pay attention to replenishment and fixer capacity. but be advised sometimes you can get
a bad hanger and it will mess with you and your film and then hide out in your bevvy of hangers.

that is what happened to me after 6 years and i eventually went to trays and shuffling. much easier ( for me at least )
tupperware trays are cheaper than the quart containers and it takes just as little /as much time to shuffle 10 sheets of film
as it does to do them in hangers ... shuffling is a PITA for some cause if you are too agressive ( see above slow + deliberate )
you drag film corners or whatever and scratch the hell out of your film.


If you do this, charge whatever you want but make it clear in correspondence that you are not responsible for anything, especially at a "bro" price like that! The client needs to be really chill if it screws up, not to get too dudish about it.

Even the most expensive labs don't warrant anything beyond the cost of their service and maybe, in a long shot, the film cost. Most of the problems are the photographer's error but the lab usually get blamed for those too.


totally agreed ...

1$/sheet is insanely cheap labs charge at least 4 maybe 5 times that.

john

[cuypers1807]

It looks like you have this sorted but I wanted to mention the Mod 54 4x5 insert for a Paterson 3 tank. I just developed my 1st six sheets using it and the development was quite even. I would recommend a lot of practice loading it in the light as it is easy to screw up until you know what to feel for.

[Tim k]

Heck I'll do it for 85 cents. But sometimes I get all that liquid stuff mixed up, and in the interest of full disclosure sometimes a sheet (or two) ends up on the floor. :) Its really hard to find em once they hit the floor, Id have to get extra for that.

My local lab is 2 bucks, b&w or color. Seems like a deal for E6.