Sagging bellows: how to stop it?

[Ed Bray]

I have a Horseman LX, at even moderate bellows extensions the standard bellows have a limp look about them, I have on occasions turned the bellows around but within a few minutes they are sagging again. If I take the bellows out to their full length 19.5 inches they only sag a little, but as soon as you move the standards towards each other, saggy bellows develop. I have thought of using something like a bit of bunji cord stretched between the lenshood on the front standard and the similar fitting on the rear standard with a loop of string around the middle of the bellows which can traverse along the bunji cord, or a telescopic rod similar to a radio antenna which can expand or retract with the length of bellows, again with a loop (or two) of string to hold the bellows up.

Am I being too anal about this, or is there some other form of mechanical viagra that will solve my saggy bellows problem?

[Mark Sawyer]

If I ever have that problem at long extensions, I just tuck someting under the bellows to support it.

[Bob Salomon]

A cut off Dixie cup placed between the top of the rail and the bottom of the bellows.

[Ed Bray]

Thanks for the prompt answers Gents,

Sorry Bob, I'm from the UK, I don't know what a Dixie cup is?

[Keith Pitman]

Along the lines you were thinking of: you can use a binder clip as a clamp on one of the folds of the bellows and a rubber band on the front standard to tension the bellows.

[greenrhino]

Thanks for the prompt answers Gents,

Sorry Bob, I'm from the UK, I don't know what a Dixie cup is?

Keep a bag of balloons in your bag, you can blow it up to the right amount for the bellows extension you are using

[Bob Salomon]

plastic, disposable drinking cup.

[Ed Bray]

I have just Googled 'Dixie Cups' and unless you mean I should butcher a female singer from the 60s I am assuming you mean a disposable drinking implement? ;)

[Ed Bray]

Thanks again gents. I don't think it actually imposes on the image path yet, it just looks unsightly and to be honest I tend to use the bag bellows for most things until I want to use a long lens or go in close.

Glad I don't have to butcher a singer though!

[Marc B.]

...I just tuck someting under the bellows to support it.
+1
I have two monorail cameras. Neither one of the bellows has a sewn-in, 'hangar loop,' facilitating support from above.
Just fold-up a lens blanket/wrap, some folded bubble wrap, an insulated winter glove...or two, a knit stocking cap, etc...

[Louis Pacilla]

Hey Ed, how old are your bellow? The reason I ask is if your bellows have some age on them they will tend to sag and with a mint/new/LN set of Sinar/Horseman bellows being so affordable. Just maybe your due a nice new set of bellows? If bought off of eBay and using patients you should be able to find a new Sinar/Horseman reg bellows for $40 or so.

The reason I bring this up is I use a 4x5 Sinar F2 and have three sets of bellows and none sag much if at all. They are all three in LN condition. I use three standards w/ two sets of bellows and I really don't have this trouble.

[Ed Bray]

Hey Ed, how old are your bellow? The reason I ask is if your bellows have some age on them they will tend to sag and with a mint/new/LN set of Sinar/Horseman bellows being so affordable. Just maybe your due a nice new set of bellows? If bought off of eBay and using patients you should be able to find a new Sinar/Horseman reg bellows for $40 or so.

The reason I bring this up is I use a 4x5 Sinar F2 and have three sets of bellows and none sag much if at all. They are all three in LN condition. I use three standards w/ two sets of bellows and I really don't have this trouble.

To be perfectly honest I have absolutely no idea how old the bellows are, they came with the camera when I bought it used a few weeks ago. They look in very good condition though and the camera has very little signs of use either. As I said, at full extension they are fine, when the bellows are quite compressed they are also fine, it is just in the range between 1/4 length and 3/4 length they begin to droop.

I will have a look at buying a new set, I did manage to pick up 2 sets of Sinar Bag Bellows, one of which was still in its box for next to nothing and as I tend to favour the wider end of things tend to use them more than the standard type. It only really became noticeable when I was trying out my new to me 360mm Apo-Ronar.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I have a Canham Light weight 8x10 (replaced my old canham leight weight 8x10 in '06) and it has the WORST bellows sag that I have ever seen. To solve it I use big paper clips (clipped to bellows pleat on either side of the camera) with a string and attach to knob on front standard.

[BrianShaw]

I have just Googled 'Dixie Cups' and unless you mean I should butcher a female singer from the 60s I am assuming you mean a disposable drinking implement? ;)

Dixie is a brand name. Solo cup is another. p.s. Solo cups come in other colors but only the red ones taste good... for some odd reason.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Solo_Cup

Also see YouTube.

[Larry H-L]

Empty film box under the bellows.

[John Kasaian]

if bellows are the only thing you got thats sagging you oughtta stop whining about it! lol!

[Ed Bray]

if bellows are the only thing you got thats sagging you oughtta stop whining about it! lol!

Bit rude to bring up my wife's issues ;)

[RichardRitter]

Get congress to repeal the law of gravity

[Eric Rose]

viagra

[Alan Gales]

Use one of your jockstraps or one of your wife's bra's. ;)

Seriously, if it's not too bad then just wad up your dark cloth and shove under it after you have focussed.

[mandoman7]

A bellows can actually sag a surprising amount before getting in the picture. The top of the back gets its image from the bottom of the lens, so the sag must be more pronounced than you think before it gets in the way. If you remove the rear back you can easily see if there's a problem.

[jose angel]

Not an issue for me, I always carry with a soft bath sponge. If needed, I just put it under the bellows. it weights nothing.

[Jim Noel]

Use one of your jockstraps or one of your wife's bra's. ;)

Seriously, if it's not too bad then just wad up your dark cloth and shove under it after you have focussed.

Bad idea. The dark cloth should always be left over the camera as a precaution against possible leaks. I learned this from Cole Weston who believed that a light trap in a film holder could begin leaking at any time. It also is a precaution against bellows leaks.

[E. von Hoegh]

The problem is not the bellows, but gravity. Just be sure to stay outside any gravitational fields and bellows sag won't be a problem. I particularly reccomend photographing from the LaGrange points.

[BrianShaw]

Why not mount the camera so it hangs from the tripod instead of being held up by the tripod. Doesn't that defeat gravity?

[E. von Hoegh]

Why not mount the camera so it hangs from the tripod instead of being held up by the tripod. Doesn't that defeat gravity?

Silly wabbit. It's better to just turn the bellows upside down in the frames. You can't defeat gravity, but there are areas where it's balanced. http://www.physics.montana.edu/faculty/cornish/lagrange.html

[Ed Bray]

Silly wabbit. It's better to just turn the bellows upside down in the frames.

Actually, that does work for a while, certainly long enough to take a couple of frames.

[Andrew O'Neill]

viagra

empty viagra box. That stuff is too expensive!

[BrianShaw]

How expensive is it? I wouldn't know. Ha ha ha.

[tgtaylor]

I had that problem with a Toyo 810G that I bought last year. The bellows were new but not Toyo bellows - probably the relatively inexpensive Chineese bellows that are advertised on Ebay. The bellows sagged with rise above ~ 40 or 50mm and vignetted the bottom of the film. After asking for similar advise here it was advised to look thru the lens and if you can see all four corners of the GG then you were OK. If not then the bellows will vignette the film. Since I often use front rise I have tried rolling up the dark cloth and placing it on the rail beneath the bellows and the cup method Bob mentioned above. However I have since found that you can raise the bellows to the desired height with one hand while taking the picture and it works perfectly. I haven't experienced a vignetting problem since.

Thomas

[Alan Gales]

Bad idea. The dark cloth should always be left over the camera as a precaution against possible leaks. I learned this from Cole Weston who believed that a light trap in a film holder could begin leaking at any time. It also is a precaution against bellows leaks.

The bellows on my cameras are in great condition so I never worried about that. You do make a very good point, Jim. Thanks for enlightening me!

You learned from Cole Weston? Wow!

[Rod Klukas]

In the UK you could go to these people (http://www.custombellows.co.uk/) and ask them to make you some loops or 6-8" ribbons to creat loops for your bellows. Glue on to the bellows and on the side or top and let dry then pull loop and fasten to one standard or the other.
This the old way to do it and it works well.

Rod

[Nathan Potter]

Like Jose Angel suggested; I carry some pieces of sponge to place under the bellows. That also dampens the bellows when it is windy. Lots of ways to reduce bellows sag - a lot easier than reducing gut sag.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.