Fitting an 8x10 and 4x5 for air travel...

[IHS]

Ok, so going to be doing some extensive airline travel in the next few years and I am looking for a solution for bringing an 8x10 and 4x5 camera on board with me. I am not going to check equipment as that scares the living hell out of me.

Is there a backpack out there that can fit a Deardorff 8x10 & and an Arca Swiss F Line with folding rail? I would only need the cameras to fit, and then I would just carry a smaller bag with the film holders and lenses separately.

Is there a place to have custom made quality camera bags produced?

The other option, and I am just wondering if people would think this would be better, would be to just bring the 8x10 Dorff, and then use a 4x5 reducing back, therefore eliminating the Arca Swiss.

Thanks in advance.

[Drew Bedo]

Here is my Kit and how it is packed for carry-on. I like this arrangement because I can hold it on my lap if need be. It will go either overhead or under the seat.

Items:
Six 4x5 holders
Grafmatic Magazine
Filter wallet-1
Loupe
Minolta Autometer IV F
9 Deg sopt attachment
Filter walletr-2
380mm wollensal Tele Raptar
210mm Caltar II N
150mm Fujinon W
90mm Nikkor SW
Wista made Zone-VI camera

This all goes into an older model LoewPro "Magnum 35" bag. It was designed to hold large amounts of 35mm gear in the 1980s. a light weight CF tripod with a magnesium ball head straps to the top of the bag.


74445

[Phil]

<< Is there a place to have custom made quality camera bags produced? >>

Contact Bill Ostrom:
http://www.ostromoutdoors.com/

[jp]

I'd only bring one camera. An 8x10 with two backs would be much nicer than lugging two camera, a big tripod, and two lens systems, etc...

The deardorff 8x10 is relatively compact for an 8x10, but you'll waste a lot of space with film holders and tripod compared to 4x5 where those things are much smaller. The accessories are bigger and heavier than the actual camera.

[IHS]

I should also add that I am a landscape/nature photographer so while on these trips I will be hiking to reach places...this leads me to thinking that I should do what a friend of mine has done and just gone with the arca swiss 4x5, and carries an 8x10 rear standard, and bellows, allowing him to keep his load light and it is easy for him to carry all his gear on the plane.

I would do that but I absolutely love the way the Deardorff looks, and do not particularly care for the way the arca looks. So this is an aesthetics issue.

Also is it doable, to do the same thing with a deardorff. Am I able to purchase a 4x5 and then make a conversion to 8x10 back? therefore reducing the weight, and only keeping one camera?

[36cm2]

I'm confused. You're bringing the Deardorff because you like how it looks? Does the way it looks inspire you to create better work? If not, i wouldn't care if i shot with a pig's rear so long as it got the job done when and how i wanted it done. Don't mean to offend, just seems like an odd reason to go to such lengths. Let me know what i'm missing.

Thanks,
Leo

[cowanw]

I hope you are flying first class. I was just on a trip to Cuba last week and the allowed cabin baggage weight was 6 KG, which was what the Airport Express wheely case weighed empty. Going to Europe on KLM last year with a 4x5 was a nightmare. Don't even get me going on the purses/ duffel bags that women can get away with.

[kurtdriver]

Rather than carry two rear standards and two bellows, take an 8x10 with a 4x5 reducing back. That way you use the same bellows and rear standard.

[Frank Petronio]

I'd learn how to use and fly with any 4x5 first.

[IHS]

Leo, I am selecting the Dorff because of the beauty, it functions just the same (for my needs) as an arca, so then it comes down to aesthetic beauty, and the fact I perfer to use wooden fields over monorails.

Frank, I have flown with 4x5s many times, I am wondering on how people fly with 4x5 and 8x10 if I am going to primarily shoot 4x5.

I am leaning at this point to using a 4x5 reducing back on the 8x10 dorff, and not bringing a separate camera.

[36cm2]

Leo, I am selecting the Dorff because of the beauty, it functions just the same (for my needs) as an arca, so then it comes down to aesthetic beauty, and the fact I perfer to use wooden fields over monorails...

I hear you. In the end it should be whatever you enjoy. I know that I personally wouldn't enjoy the travel burden of packing both a 4x5 and an 8x10, and all the accessories. Then again, these are fortunate problems that I would love to have!

[jeroldharter]

On smaller planes, you often have to check larger carry ons at the gate because they will not fit overhead and you are prohibited from holding them on your lap.

A carry on size Pelican (1510?) is the way to go. Gear is safe even if checked as baggage but meets carry on requirements. It is also dust proof and waterproof.

8x10 with reducing back is the way to go realizing that bellows compression might limit 4x5 wide angle work.

Depending on where you are going, you might consider shipping your gear, or some of it, UPS.

I carry on the Pelican and the put a Photobackpacker backpack (filled with clothes, etc.) inside a suitcase and carry the film in a "purse" style bag (LL Bean zipped beach tote).

[Noah A]

... I am wondering on how people fly with 4x5 and 8x10 if I am going to primarily shoot 4x5. ...

Most photographers wouldn't fly with an 8x10 just because it's pretty if they intended to primarily work with the 4x5.

I travel routinely with a 4x5 Technika (or occasionally the larger Technikardan) in a Lowepro Flipside 400AW backpack. It holds the camera with one lens mounted, around ten film holders, 4-5 relatively large extra lenses and some accessories. I usually carry my film boxes (usually 6 boxes of Portra 160 re-packed with 50 sheets per box) as well as my travel documents in my 'personal item', a very small messenger bag from Manhattan Portage (smaller than a laptop bag, it's really a man-purse I guess). I've had no problems flying internationally this way, I try to fly Lufthansa when I can but I've also recently flown on Continental, United and some others I can't think of at the moment.

I check a Zero Halliburton suitcase which contains my tripod, a few extra (empty) film holders, a backup lens or two and my clothes.

I don't see any reasonable way to carry on all of the gear you're talking about, especially since you'll have to carry your film boxes on as well, you can't check them. If you insist on taking the gear you mention, make sure you have equipment insurance and check the 8x10 in a pelican case. You could probably carry-on the 4x5 gear and all of your film.

I suppose if you're traveling with a companion and you could split the load, things may be different, but if you're alone you'll have problems conforming to the size and weight limits.

If I had to travel with an 8x10 camera, there is no doubt in my mind that I'd shoot with an arca-swiss. It's small, rigid and reliable. It's an even better kit if you absolutely need to carry two formats, since a lot of the parts are interchangeable. But frankly I don't see the point in traveling with two formats these days with all of the tight airline restrictions. You'll be duplicating a lot of gear (holders, some lenses, lots of film boxes, etc.) If you decided to shoot all 8x10 then perhaps you could fit your camera, lenses and film into a carry-on bag. Carrying an 8x10 camera and a reducing back would be an ok compromise I guess, but I don't really get it. If you plan to shoot mostly 8x10 and a few 4x5 pics, why not just stick with 8x10? And if you plan to shoot mostly 4x5, then it's inefficient to carry a large 8x10 camera.

If you go with 8x10 you'll probably have to check your film holders which stinks since you'll be unable to shoot if your luggage gets lost. But I don't see any way around that. Shooting 4x5 lets you carry all of your really critical gear on the plane. The only exception is the tripod, but you could probably find a tripod most places in the world in an emergency.

If you want to really get the most out of a regulation-sized bag, I would suggest one of the Think Tank bags. Some of them are sized specifically to the USA or International carry-on standards and they'll hold quite a lot. Better still, you could go with an aluminum case like a Zero Halliburton or Rimowa. Both make IATA sized carry on cases and because they're aluminum the walls are thin and you can really maximize space inside the bag, though you'd still probably want to add padding of some sort. I don't see the point in making a custom bag since there are plenty of manufacturers who already make bags specifically designed to get the most out of a regulation-sized carry-on bag.

Have you considered just sticking to 4x5 but buying a wooden 4x5 that's pretty like your Deardorff? That would make your travels a breeze.

Don't let all of this dissuade you. I love traveling with 4x5 despite the hassles and the results are very rewarding.

[Noah A]

...

A carry on size Pelican (1510?) is the way to go. Gear is safe even if checked as baggage but meets carry on requirements. It is also dust proof and waterproof.

...

I have one of these and I've considered doing this very same thing. It sounds like a good strategy. I do worry about the weight though. I've never had a carry-on weighed, but if they start doing that, this bag definitely is heavy and obviously so. But if I traveled on smaller planes and had to check my gear, this would be the case I'd do it in, without a doubt.

I try to book my seats towards the rear of the plane. That often means I can board early and it ensures there is space left in the overhead bins. But the great thing about my small 4x5 kit is that the Flipside 400 backpack will even fit under most seats if absolutely necessary, though it would leave me with no legroom.

[Frank Petronio]

Lately they've been loading my planes from the front, so getting good overhead placement means the lower numbered seats.

I used to use the Pelican 1510 until it cracked the hinge and latch on me. The other latch held it from opening but I am no longer a fan, also because of their empty weight.

Right now I use a Think Tank Airport Antidote for a compact 4x5 kit. It is well below the airline regs and I can even slip it under the seat in front of me, so I never have needed to gate check it. I dread the thought of having anything larger to be honest, it is still a serious lump to lug around.

If I were traveling with 8x10 and wanted to really get serious work done, I would invest in a custom Strebor or find a Lightware or Tenba Air case that fits all of my 8x10 gear, including a bag for holders, tripod head, changing tent, etc. Then I would ante up to pay excess baggage or ship it on ahead via FedEx and do it right. Insured of course. None of this is cheap and it means it is usually better to drive if it is within a reasonable driving distance.

Maybe you can get a Dorf into a carry-on but you'll always be leaving something behind or compromising in some way. And you didn't get into 8x10 to compromise did you?

I'd also be mean and brutalistic and use a system monorail like a Sinar/Arca/Linhof/Cambo/Toyo and have a solid camera with full movements once I decide to check or ship it. But the wood ones do make better pictures, lol.

[Alan Gales]

I think the Arca Swiss F line is a beautiful camera also. No, it doesn't look like a piece of antique furniture like the Dorff but it looks great in it's own way. :)

[Noah A]

Lately they've been loading my planes from the front, so getting good overhead placement means the lower numbered seats.


How silly. I've never experienced that other than a few rows of first-class, but when it comes to airlines, nothing surprises me anymore. I'm waiting for the credit card readers on the bathroom doors.


But the wood ones do make better pictures, lol.

Better pictures? I don't think so. But if you get stranded somewhere you can bust 'em up for firewood!

[Frank Petronio]

I bust splinters off to clean my teeth ;-p

[Drew Bedo]

Air travel with film is my worry.

Last year TSA discovered a 50 sheet box of 4x5 Tri-X in my camera bag. They decided to open the box. they took it away for some time and returned it to me with some tape holding the box closed . . .OK.

When I went to load the film, I found that they had opened both inner pouches too. I loaded and shot two sheets. Later on I found that each sheet was either totally black or only half black!

What can be done? Ship film ahead, buy it locally, don't fly.

PS: I have a Kodak 2-D and understand. We are going on a family vacation this summer and the 2-D is staying home. My 4x5 is a lovely little Zone VI.

[Brian Ellis]

There's "air travel" and there's "air travel." It sounds like you're going to be flying all over the place and likely won't always be on airlines with the same rules about carry-on luggage and the same size airplanes. If that's the case and you really really don't want to check your gear even on a small airplane I wouldn't carry any LF gear, I'd bring a medium format system or a good digital camera. I'd be even more certain to do that if I was going to be doing a lot of hiking as you say you will be.

But if you feel you absolutely must use LF gear to accomplish what you want to accomplish, and absolutely must be able to use both 4x5 and 8x10 film, then I think you're on the right track with your last post in which you say you're leaning towards an 8x10 with a 4x5 reducing back.

[Ari]

One large suitcase for 8x10 camera, reducing back, film holders, tripod, etc all wrapped in clothing; that suitcase gets checked.
In your carry-on take lenses and film, and whatever else you normally take with you.
One of the carry-ons mentioned by Noah or Frank is a very good choice.

It's one thing to get it all on a plane and land safely with everything intact, but it's another to move around by bus, taxi or train within a country with all that gear.
And it's another thing as well to figure out how you're going to work, how you will pack for day trips, etc so keep that in mind as you're planning all this.

[Frank Petronio]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/441380-REG/Tenba_634_131_AT_45V_4x5_View_Air.html

I just bought another one of these again, for a 4x5 monorail system but there is no reason an 8x10 field wouldn't work in it or something similar. In any event, I flew around the US doing architecture with an Arca monorail, lenses, holders, and doodads all packed inside and checked through. It was easily under 50 lbs and the dimensional requirements.

Then you keep some personal items, boxes of film and your digital/roll film cameras in a modest carry-on and travel with a semblance of sanity. Tripod, lighting, grip and clothes go into another Lightware or Tenba cargo case. Rent a handcart or get one on location. Join an airline club or get their credit card so the bag goes for free, or you only pay for one extra checked bag.

Use TSA locks if you must but stealing large-format gear is not that attractive to most thieves... they want DSLRs, jewelry, etc.