Chinese Bellows and IR film

[Cor]

I seem to recall a thread asking if bellows from the chinese vendor: ecbuyonline are IR safe. Cannot find this thread back, so hence a new one.

Anyway recently I obtained a new bellows for my Technika Color (relative of a Tech IV), which are quite nice and function perfect, but I asked the seller about the IR properties..

Hello Cor,


Sorry, they are not IR safe, I am concentrate on this now, do you know where can buy the IR safe material?


Thank you,
Rudy


So that is a bit dissapointing since I do shoot IR film, I guess I'll have to test if my dark cloth thrown over the bellows is sufficiently blocking IR light than..sigh..

Best,

Cor

[vinny]

If your dark cloth has something other than cloth in it, then maybe yes if you seal it all the way around the camera. In my case, it did not work. Others will suggest aluminum foil which is about as practical as an aluminum cape.

[mdm]

Mine has a spongy yellow stuff between 3M black stuff, but I imagine the folds will only be cloth. I also asked him about IR, he also said they are not, but try and see. Unless they are absolutely certain they will always say no.

[David R Munson]

So is there a known source of IR-proof custom bellows presently?

[sanchi heuser]

Have a look at the site of custom bellows, maybe they provide info.
Otherwise ask them.
http://www.custombellows.co.uk/products.html

Andi

[David R Munson]

I actually corresponded with them last week, but apparently forgot that I did so(whoops!). Here's the response I got:


Dave
We use a material called Hypalon, it is a plastic coated nylon, as far as i am aware it is IR proof. My only concern is thye closed dimension of the bellows as it is slightly thicker than our other materials we use for Linhof Arca Swiss etc
regards
Keith

I'm going to get back to him with the dimensions of the Chamonix bellows to see if the Hypalon bellows would be feasible with this camera.

Beyond that, I'm looking into ways to possibly coat the existing bellows.

[Kodachrome25]

Until a professional level solution is made, I made two different sized "Bellows Coats" out of a spare Mylar emergency blanket, 4 layers thick for my Chamonix 45N-2.

One is 5" long and is for 65-135mm, the other is 10" long and is for 150-300mm lenses. I mostly shoot landscapes with IR so I did not need a lot of extension. The structure is reinforced with black gaffers and aluminum tape, pull tabs on the ground glass side to pull it snug into the rear standard. The front has a tapered snout with reinforcements on top and bottom, Velcro closures on the bottom so the front standard can pass through.

It is a pain in the rear, but it works great. In full sunlight, I can have the dark slide out for over 2 minutes and not get any base fog. Besides the look of it and the need to even put it on, the only other down side is the fact I can not fold the camera with it on, even with the reinforcement, it is still just Mylar and delicate.

I had no choice but to make it though, I shoot over half my 4x5 with IR film...

[vinny]

My wehman bellows are ir proof, whoever made those.
David, I just tested a set of shenhao PTB bellows on my chamonix which allow me to use my 450mm (even though the specs and badger graphic said otherwise). The film (konica 750) didn't fog on normal exposures but I did get a bit of fog with the slide pulled for a few minutes. It's an option.

[Kodachrome25]

Vinny, how much are they and do they compress as well as the Chamonix Universal Bellows?

[David R Munson]

Vinny - do the stock Shen Hao bellows mount on the Chamonix or do they need modification to do so?

[vinny]

Vinny, how much are they and do they compress as well as the Chamonix Universal Bellows?
check with badgergraphic.com, around $100 I think. I got mine used. I haven't tried them with my short lenses but they are like most other bellows with pleats til the end, not as supple.


David, exact fit for both the shen hao bag bellows and the PTB bellows (which happen to be the same mount as the shenhao 45hzxwhatevers as well. The bag bellows are leather.

[evan clarke]

Now we're talking...Hypalon. I have a set of new bellows frames for my 11x14 Chamonix and have been messing with thenfabrication of a bag bellows..The Hypalon is the last piece of the puzzle.

[vinny]

Evan, if it doesn't work you fan always make an inflatable boat out of it.

[evan clarke]

Evan, if it doesn't work you fan always make an inflatable boat out of it.

I made a mock up from paper to develop a cutting pattern....it's already a boat...

[Cor]

Answering my own question/post her, as well as Davids suggestion; "try and see"

Last evening I shot 2 sheets of IR film, one with the bellows unshielded and one with the bellows wrapped in my Gnass darkcloth.

Processed them in PyrocatHD; both came out fine! Did not print yet, but the deep blacks on the neg are as clear as the unexposed edges of the film.

Caveat: I used some old rather poor quality IR film from a small batch I obtained for testing in 2008 or 2006 I believe. It's a MACO proto IR film on a very filmsy and thin carrier, presumably made in the old Belgian Geveart factory

It's a true IR film and gives nice Wood effect with a 89b filter. Normally I use MACO aka EFKE IR film, and I am not certain if this film extends further into the IR spectrum maybe longer wavelengths will pass through the bellows cloth and will fog teh EFKE film.

I was using my 150mm lens, with my back to the sun, the sun was hitting about 1/3 of my bellows under an angle, I figured that it would fog my film in this way, if the bellows are not IR proof. In hindsight to be sure I should have extended the bellows to the max, removed the darkslide and turned the side camera to sun.

OTOH I used the camera last evening like I normally would do.

So David seems to have a point

best,

Cor


Mine has a spongy yellow stuff between 3M black stuff, but I imagine the folds will only be cloth. I also asked him about IR, he also said they are not, but try and see. Unless they are absolutely certain they will always say no.

[vinny]

Answering my own question/post her, as well as Davids suggestion; "try and see"

Last evening I shot 2 sheets of IR film, one with the bellows unshielded and one with the bellows wrapped in my Gnass darkcloth.

Processed them in PyrocatHD; both came out fine! Did not print yet, but the deep blacks on the neg are as clear as the unexposed edges of the film.



Caveat: I used some old rather poor quality IR film from a small batch I obtained for testing in 2008 or 2006 I believe. It's a MACO proto IR film on a very filmsy and thin carrier, presumably made in the old Belgian Geveart factory

It's a true IR film and gives nice Wood effect with a 89b filter. Normally I use MACO aka EFKE IR film, and I am not certain if this film extends further into the IR spectrum maybe longer wavelengths will pass through the bellows cloth and will fog teh EFKE film.

I was using my 150mm lens, with my back to the sun, the sun was hitting about 1/3 of my bellows under an angle, I figured that it would fog my film in this way, if the bellows are not IR proof. In hindsight to be sure I should have extended the bellows to the max, removed the darkslide and turned the side camera to sun.

OTOH I used the camera last evening like I normally would do.

So David seems to have a point

best,

Cor

The easiest way to test is by not making an exposure but pulling the dark slide half-way for a period of time. In my case it's a couple minutes since the wind isn't always cooperating and very long exposures are necessary in overcast conditions, not to mention waiting for wind, etc. How long did you have the dark slide out?

[Cor]

The easiest way to test is by not making an exposure but pulling the dark slide half-way for a period of time. In my case it's a couple minutes since the wind isn't always cooperating and very long exposures are necessary in overcast conditions, not to mention waiting for wind, etc. How long did you have the dark slide out?

Hi Vinney,

I deliberately had the dark slide out for about 45 seconds, made the exposure of 4 seconds and put the slide back, I usually do not have the dark slide out long periods, certainly not minutes. If the wind permits, I even leave the dark slide in for about 1 cm into the holder. But usually that is not possible

Best,

Cor

[Leszek Vogt]

Thanks Vinny. My last IR exposure was a total fiasco and I'm thinking that the bellows could be the culprit I'm hoping it's not
my changing bag.

Les