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zenny
18-May-2012, 02:14
Hi:

I am interested to learn more about platinum printing process, new to this area.

Appreciate it if someone experienced explain:

1) The chemical required and the places to purchase
2) The best paper for the process
3) The process involved (stepwise including quantitative and qualitative chemical compositions for developing)
4) The best way to frame platinum prints.

And also let me know drawbacks of the process, if any (except the cost) compared to silver printing.

Thanks again!

/z

Louie Powell
18-May-2012, 04:35
Z -

My suggestion is that you start with a workshop on Pt/Pd printing. That will answer all of your questions, as well as a lot that you haven't thought of yet. There are a number of choose from, but my preference would be for a workshop taught by Tillman Crane because he is one of the real masters of the process, he is an excellent teacher, and an inspiration to be around. He is scheduled for a session at Peters Valley Craft Center (http://www.petersvalley.org/store/html/product.cfm?id=125) in July that should be excellent.

Another suggestion is to purchase Christopher James' "The Book of Alternative Photographic Processes". It's a comprehensive coverage of a wide range of processes including both Pt/Pd and Ziatype.

jonreid
18-May-2012, 05:20
See if the book The New Platinum Print by Richard Sullivan and Carl Weese is still available from Bostick & Sullivan. It's a good primer. Dick Arentz's book is also good but harder to find and more for practitioners with some experience.

Jon

Doug Howk
18-May-2012, 05:29
Agree on the workshop as a best start. With price of chemicals, it will pay for itself. Also agree with recommendation of Tilman Crane. Check out his website.
As to books, the clearest is Ian Leake's "The Platinum Printing Workshop". He does concentrate on the Dichro method but does discuss the other two major methods for contrast control.

D. Bryant
18-May-2012, 06:12
Hi:

I am interested to learn more about platinum printing process, new to this area.

Appreciate it if someone experienced explain:

1) The chemical required and the places to purchase
2) The best paper for the process
3) The process involved (stepwise including quantitative and qualitative chemical compositions for developing)
4) The best way to frame platinum prints.

And also let me know drawbacks of the process, if any (except the cost) compared to silver printing.

Thanks again!

/z

Here are some free links to get you started:

http://www.platinotype.com/pdf/%20Pt-Pd%20Manual.pdf

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/04/the-making-of-a-platinum-print-slideshow.html

http://www.keithtaylorphoto.com/faqs.html

http://www.joelipkaphoto.com/make_platinum.htm

http://www.clayharmon.com/download/downloads/PtPdmanual.pdf

http://www.dickarentz.com/na2.html

Jan Pietrzak
18-May-2012, 14:41
Don,

Just wanting to put my print frame in the ring, I will be doing two Pt/Pd Workshops at the end of September, in Santa Fe, New Mexico. For information jpietrzak.com and find out what I will be teaching.

Jan Pietrzak

zenny
19-May-2012, 01:36
Here are some free links to get you started:

http://www.platinotype.com/pdf/%20Pt-Pd%20Manual.pdf

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/04/the-making-of-a-platinum-print-slideshow.html

http://www.keithtaylorphoto.com/faqs.html

http://www.joelipkaphoto.com/make_platinum.htm

http://www.clayharmon.com/download/downloads/PtPdmanual.pdf

http://www.dickarentz.com/na2.html

Zillion thanks for the links, Don. They are extremely helpful particularly from someone who is really onto the stuff. :-D And thanks to jonreid and Louie Powell for book references.

I am sorry to say that I do not plan to attend any workshops because I would like to be inspired rather than preached. Maybe my weakness, but I feel as if Homo sapiens have evolved enough from the process of old schooling by the time we entered 21st century. Kudos to the Internet.

So I kindly request the forum members to post online resources available (including book references) about the process only rather than info on workshops/trainings.

However, platinum printing process has been very well described in the videos by a reputed pt-pd photographer from Canada V. Tony Hauser in youtube.com.

Part I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdJ7yPqNWyw

...contd.. (because only one video is allowed in one post.)

zenny
19-May-2012, 01:36
Part II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPPf0cKL_Uw

...contd.. (because only one video is allowed in one post.)

zenny
19-May-2012, 01:37
Part III

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5HL1ddGF8I

...contd.. (because only one video is allowed in one post.)

zenny
19-May-2012, 01:38
And Hidden Light LLC owners Corey Allen and Stephen Saunders gave a brief preview of the history, process (including digitized negatives), good enough for an experienced to understand the process, though the video is a promo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAaOCkO2lYw

Hopefully the videos are useful for someone who really wants to understand the process like I do ;-)

jonreid
19-May-2012, 01:52
I am sorry to say that I do not plan to attend any workshops because I would like to be inspired rather than preached.

One of the more arrogant sentences I've read on this forum for a while.

zenny
19-May-2012, 02:18
One of the more arrogant sentences I've read on this forum for a while.

It is not arrogance, but a humble statement of the fact that I cannot learn in an archetype, systematic, formal, training environments. Do not forget that I also mentioned that it could be my weakness. And nobody has any right to judge me for what I am from merely a sentence without further completing the whole para or the post!

BTW, in the beginning of IT revolution when there were no Windows, Mac or even Linux or even many variants of BSDs, I learned them without any formal schooling (because they were none) including the low-level programming. So with the photography and silver printing processes as well as documentary making. I do not want to explain about the milestones I achieved, because you may again rant that I am stating my arrogance again.

The gist is I would love to be self-taught and do not get tired of experimentation to create something new on my own which is not possible with any kind of formal schooling. However that does not mean that I have never been to any formal universities (have degrees in several fields, I am afraid you repeat the arr* word again), but they did not satisfy my quest for creativity and innovation.

It would be productive if you reply with some resources for my curiosity (the original questions) like Don did (you too by referring to a book reference) rather than wasting time commenting on redundant stuffs like how I am because formal form of schooling/training is not my cup of tea at this point of life.

I do not want to further argue on this point rather than focusing myself on platinum printing with an open eyes and ears to the posts that is relevant to the original query.

/z

--

Support http://thehumanape.com

jonreid
19-May-2012, 04:49
Ok, hope you got deep pockets.

D. Bryant
19-May-2012, 18:36
Don,

Just wanting to put my print frame in the ring, I will be doing two Pt/Pd Workshops at the end of September, in Santa Fe, New Mexico. For information jpietrzak.com and find out what I will be teaching.

Jan Pietrzak

Hi Jan,

I didn't know you were doing workshops.

Folks if you don't know Jan's work let me tell you he is a very good palladium printer. And IMO, his workshop fee is very reasonable.

Don

Jan Pietrzak
19-May-2012, 18:49
Don,

Thank you, for the kind words. This will be the second year for the Santa Fe based workshops. Last year we had 4 participants for the 2 sessions, so it was almost a one-one session. My old boss at UC Santa Cruz wanted to take a workshop from me so we started the sessions around her. We had a great time in New Mexico.

Again thank you

Jan Pietrzak

vinny
19-May-2012, 18:58
If you aren't interested in taking the advice on this forum Google "platinum printing". You'll be self-taught in no time.

mdm
19-May-2012, 19:50
I see no difference in being self taught by reading articles and how to's, and learing at a workshop. If you dont want to benefit from the experience and knowledge of others I suggest you invent your own process from scratch, no photo process theory books allowed, even academic ones.

Kimberly Anderson
19-May-2012, 20:20
So you're asking for a leg up, but not the leg up that folks who have been down that road before suggest? Ok.

Wayne Lambert
19-May-2012, 21:35
Wuduv mentioned my workshop which starts in 2 weeks, but I'll probbly preech.

Self-teaching is fine but it's nice to be able to ask a question now and then. Videos aren't much help there.
Wayne

Zaitz
20-May-2012, 00:56
I thought Sandy King had written an article on it but I guess not. His article on Kallitypes was a big help for me. I used these to get me going and they were of great help:

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/platinum/a-non-silver-manual-palladium

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/platinum/platinotype-printmaking

D. Bryant
20-May-2012, 02:54
Come on guys let's give Zenny a break. Many of us never took a workshop and taught ourselves the process. Zenny is also not located in the US so his access to American workshops is probably quite limited.

And though I'm not sure, I don't think English is his native language so we maybe interpreting his comments too literally.

Personally I think people will benefit more from workshops if they have at least dabbled with the process or technique they are curious about. What's the old Dylan line? 'There's no success like failure ...'

Steve Smith
20-May-2012, 03:59
It is not arrogance, but a humble statement of the fact that I cannot learn in an archetype, systematic, formal, training environments.

It did not think of it as an arrogant statement either but I can see why some people might think of it that way.

I don't respond well to formal instruction on how to do things either. I much prefer to work it out for myself. However, everyone is different in this respect.


What's the old Dylan line? 'There's no success like failure ...'

Failure is good as it shows you what doesn't work. If you encounter success on your first try, you will never know the limits of the process.


Steve.

Wayne Lambert
20-May-2012, 07:04
Sorry, but I didn't get the impression that English was not his first language or that he is not in the US. If so, that might explain his use of the term "preach." I've just never considered informative lecturing and discussion as "preaching."

Wayne

sepstein17
20-May-2012, 07:18
This thread seems to be assuming that one has a wunderful neg for Pt/Pl printing -- for someone who's interested in being "self-taught" -- do you just buy the negative because, if not, you might want to self-teach how to develop a negative which will work in your newly self-tsight genre.

D. Bryant
20-May-2012, 16:24
This thread seems to be assuming that one has a wunderful neg for Pt/Pl printing -- for someone who's interested in being "self-taught" -- do you just buy the negative because, if not, you might want to self-teach how to develop a negative which will work in your newly self-tsight genre.

Learning how to make proper negatives is part of the process, so no you don't buy the negative. If you want to be self taught do your research first.

D. Bryant
20-May-2012, 16:26
Take a look a Wayne's website for examples of very good palladium work.

zenny
21-May-2012, 03:13
Thanks to everyone above for spending precious time to post useful suggestions. I am still open for receiving more info/resources on the topic (except workshop recommendations).

zenny
21-May-2012, 04:09
I thought Sandy King had written an article on it but I guess not. His article on Kallitypes was a big help for me. I used these to get me going and they were of great help:

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/platinum/a-non-silver-manual-palladium

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/platinum/platinotype-printmaking

@Zaitz: Thanks a lot, they are very relevant to my query with explanation about the quantitative part of the chemicals! :D

Cor
21-May-2012, 05:19
Zenny,

Did you ever had a a platinum/palladium print in your hands? I'm asking because the aesthetics of a Pt/Pd print is quite different form a glossy FB print (obviously), it's much more silent/subdued, and the texture of the paper is a very prominent factor..I have been printing platinum on and off for years now (and I am NOT a master at all) and still I am not convinced of the mythical qualities sometimes attributed to platinum prints..heresy perhaps but I am strictly speaking for myself.

For some images it sings, for others its well bland..I taught myself Pt printing so that perhaps explains..;-)..but I did had print made by a master printer in my hands (Carl Weese)

Best,

Cor

zenny
21-May-2012, 07:07
Zenny,

Did you ever had a a platinum/palladium print in your hands? I'm asking because the aesthetics of a Pt/Pd print is quite different form a glossy FB print (obviously), it's much more silent/subdued, and the texture of the paper is a very prominent factor..I have been printing platinum on and off for years now (and I am NOT a master at all) and still I am not convinced of the mythical qualities sometimes attributed to platinum prints..heresy perhaps but I am strictly speaking for myself.

For some images it sings, for others its well bland..I taught myself Pt printing so that perhaps explains..;-)..but I did had print made by a master printer in my hands (Carl Weese)

Best,

Cor

@Cor: I have not printed with pt-pd, but have experience with other processes for a long time. A good print relies on several factors (for pt-pd print, I have outlined below). Even a master printer cannot print a mythical print without several exposed strips wasted (as shown in V. Tony Hauser's video). Same applies to other processes including silver print. So, in my view, pd-pt like other processes always remains a trial and error method. Tolerance to bear the failure and a desire to experiment produce a better print, not only in pt-pd printing.

In summary, the variables to produce a "mythical" quality Pt-Pd prints reportedly are:
1) density of chemicals (Potassium chloroplatinite - K2PtCl4 + Palladium dichloride - PdCl2 and Ferric Oxalate- C6Fe2O12) in emulsion
2) quality of negative (Mitsubishi Pictorico OHP transparency for digital negatives with digital colour correction)
3) strength and temperature of the developer (Potassium ferrioxalate - K3[Fe(C2O4)3] )
4) quality and structure of the paper fibers
5) a nose for understanding and experimenting with chemical processes, and
6) the passion to face the challenges of failure to succeed.

Correct me if I missed something. Thanks!

PS: You mentioning "masters" reminded me of an ancient Sanskrit expression that reads, "Nothing can grow under the eminence of a banyan tree." (for knowing more about banyan, visit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banyan)

/z

Vaughn
21-May-2012, 07:20
7) An image worth printing :)

Vaughn

Wayne Lambert
21-May-2012, 07:27
Thanks, Don.

I'm sure that one can learn to be an excellent platinum printer without ever taking a workshop; it's just that many of us like to learn from demonstrations by someone who already knows.

It has been said that platinum printing, like so many other endeavors, is easy to learn but difficult to master. The "master"part comes from long experience and making and dealing with many mistakes.

Best of luck, Zenny. You seem to have the interest and commitment, and I'm sure you will do well if you wish.

Wayne

zenny
21-May-2012, 07:53
Thanks, Don.

I'm sure that one can learn to be an excellent platinum printer without ever taking a workshop; it's just that many of us like to learn from demonstrations by someone who already knows.

It has been said that platinum printing, like so many other endeavors, is easy to learn but difficult to master. The "master"part comes from long experience and making and dealing with many mistakes.

Best of luck, Zenny. You seem to have the interest and commitment, and I'm sure you will do well if you wish.

Wayne


Thank Wayne for encouraging comment. :-) I cannot say for sure that I could be a good one, but try to print some anyway.

Before I posted this comment, I was checking your interesting site as Don advised to. I could see the difference between the quality of platinum and inkjet printing with one of your photographs. I just put them side by side to check the difference (see attachment, but they belong to you).

Some of your pictures are mind blowing! :-D Thank you very much for sharing! And thanks to community here!

/z

zenny
21-May-2012, 07:56
7) An image worth printing :)

Vaughn

Oh missed that part! Thanks for appending! :-D

Wayne Lambert
22-May-2012, 08:09
Zenny,

Thank you for your kind remarks. I have two types of prints because I have two types of 8 x 10 (and 4 x 5) negatives: early negatives that were made for gelatin-silver printing and later negatives made for platinum/palladium printing. Recently, I have printed the early negatives with an Epson 3880 printer and Epson inks. Also, I scanned all the negatives that are represented on my website with an Epson V700 scanner and, for consistency, made the images on my website from these scanned negatives. I experimented with Epson Advanced Black and White until I found a color for the digital prints that closely matches my palladium prints. Also, for the website I use a color that mimics the palladium color. I believe that one of the two images of Arminda is the only image on the website that is scanned from a palladium print; I use it as an example of a scanned print. You reproduced both the Arminda from scanned print and the Arminda from scanned negative. The one on the left is from the scanned print; it's on-screen color is not as warm as the original print. In terms of prints, it is amazing to me how closely the palladium prints and the digital prints resemble each other. I attribute it in part to the fact that I make the digital print the same size as the palladium print.

Wayne