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View Full Version : Would I really need monorail?



Hyok Kim
17-May-2012, 19:25
I just bought a Meridian 45b, self-enclosing technical field camera with back movement and I read that it is very wa friendly.


My needs are basically...


1. Architectural photo from the outside of an entire building.

I would take 1. only at night, sunrise, sunset, or overcast days.

When taking at night, only with snows in the background, with no flash, only B&W, and only with extra long exposure.


When taking sunrise, sunset, or overcast days, only in color, with no snows in the background, no flash.

In both cases, narrowest aperture for wide DOF.

I definitely would use tripod for this.

2. Street portrait( I would be taking picture without them being aware) of people with interesting facial features, either face, or face and shoulder shot, with the foreground and backgroud blurred out.

When night, no snows in the background, B&W only, with no flash.

When sunrise, sunset, overcast days, color only, no snows, no flash.

In both cases, wide aperture for shallow DOF.


When taking with brilliant sunlit days, B&W only, no kill flash, medium aperture.

I may or may not use tripod for this.

jose angel
18-May-2012, 03:08
AFAIK, the Meridian has an internal focus rail that allow the use of short lenses. So depending on the size of the building, focus distance, lens used and movements needed, you could want or not a monorail with a bag bellows. For "normal" use, I think the Meridian is fine. Obviously, here the tripod should be a "non-detachable" part of the camera.

About the "candid", street shooting, I`d say it`s not the best task for a 4x5"; even being a press camera. To make it worst, you mix available (even low!) light, longer lenses (face, face& shoulders), fast apertures, etc. without tripod (!!!), and... Do you really think that people will not be aware of someone trying to deal with such camera? For that kind of task I`d get a D700 with a telezoom, not a 4x5" sheet film camera!!

It sounds like a joke, more than a real question. Well, PJs did it in the past, so... why not? ;)

Ari
18-May-2012, 03:39
You might need a monorail if you find that the Meridian doesn't offer enough movements; folding tech cameras are great for their versatility and portability, but they can't do everything.
As Jose said, it's hard to be inconspicuous with a 4x5; for run-and-gun street photography, you'd be better off with a smaller format.

Brian K
18-May-2012, 07:44
For architecture rear movements come in handy, especially rear rise and fall. You can't do the easily with a flat bed, a monorail makes those movements easy.

Bob Salomon
18-May-2012, 08:49
Do you want to be able to control the shape of the building? In other words, if you have to tilt the camera up or down you will create converging lines. To correct them you need to make the back perpendicular to the building. To do this you need tilts and swings on the back (depending if the camera is tited to the subject or angled to the subject). These may need to be combined with rear rise/fall and front rise/fall.

So if you will need this type of control you may need a more advaced technical camera like a Linhof Technika which has limited rear tilts and swings or a monorail that has them. The Linhof TK has them and folds into a flat package for traveling.

Hyok Kim
18-May-2012, 10:41
About the "candid", street shooting, I`d say it`s not the best task for a 4x5"; even being a press camera. To make it worst, you mix available (even low!) light, longer lenses (face, face& shoulders), fast apertures, etc. without tripod (!!!),....."


I've seen some works, where it has been done very well. Using 4 x 5 Press Camera, B&W, at night, no flash, long focus length lense, so long as wide aperture and fast shutter was employed.



and... Do you really think that people will not be aware of someone trying to deal with such camera?

Obviously, it can be done. I've seen some street portraits of people taken with 4 x 5. Besides 4 x5 can't be beat for picture quality, and that's why I got into large format. Of course, it's a lot more work.







It sounds like a joke, more than a real question. Well, PJs did it in the past, so... why not? ;)

No, it's not a joke.

Hyok Kim
18-May-2012, 10:47
For architecture rear movements come in handy, especially rear rise and fall. You can't do the easily with a flat bed, a monorail makes those movements easy.

Meridian has rear movement.

Hyok Kim
18-May-2012, 10:49
Do you want to be able to control the shape of the building? In other words, if you have to tilt the camera up or down you will create converging lines. To correct them you need to make the back perpendicular to the building. To do this you need tilts and swings on the back (depending if the camera is tited to the subject or angled to the subject). These may need to be combined with rear rise/fall and front rise/fall.

So if you will need this type of control you may need a more advaced technical camera like a Linhof Technika which has limited rear tilts and swings or a monorail that has them. The Linhof TK has them and folds into a flat package for traveling.

Meridian has back swing and tilt of about 15 degrees.

Bob Salomon
18-May-2012, 11:56
To give you an idea, the TK has 360° of front and rear optical axis swings and tilts as well as the ability to use lenses as short as 35mm.

rdenney
18-May-2012, 12:10
My suggestion is just use what you have. If you run into limitations, make note of them, and use them as requirements for your next camera. There are many monorail cameras at all price points that provide more movements (and easier to visualize movements) than even the most flexible of field/technical cameras. But that doesn't mean that the camera you have won't meet your particular needs.

I use monorails for nearly everything because I like the flexibility. But for hand-held work in large format, I have a press camera (a Speed Graphic). I rarely do that sort of work, and when I do it's mostly fun party-stuff with Fujiroid, but the price of the Speed was low enough to have for those occasions when it is most appropriate. There is no requirement that we have one single camera that can do everything, and in fact, that is probably the most expensive solution.

Rick "who'd rather have two cheaper cameras purpose-built for their different applications" Denney

jose angel
18-May-2012, 14:28
Well, Weegee used to use Graflex cameras back in the thirties... nobody could say he was not a successful street shooter.

But the thing is not the use of a 4x5" but the difficulties of shooting hand-held, wide open, no flash, or with longer lenses. To have a closer candid shot, something in the 300mm range should be used, how can be focus nailed using this setup wide open and hand held? Which ISO should be used to get an affordable shooting speed? Even Weegee used to use flash to save this issues.

Anyway, I`m with Rick; just use what you have. Start shooting, check what works for you. Gear, style, technique... all is susceptible of being improved or changed. And please, show your results!

Hyok Kim
19-May-2012, 01:01
To give you an idea, the TK has 360° of front and rear optical axis swings and tilts as well as the ability to use lenses as short as 35mm.

You're talking about TK 2000, at least V, right? If V, it's kinda out of my budget, if 2000, most definitely out of my budget. I was told Meridian could handle somewhere between 65 to 75mm, which is acceptable for outside architectural photo.

jose angel
19-May-2012, 01:26
I think Bob is refering to Technika and Technikardan (=TK), two different systems.

The ones you refer (2000 and V) are the Technikas (Master Technika). It happens that I use a Technika; maybe a more advanced and complex camera than the Meridian, but based in the same concept. The Technikardan is a compact monorail designed for field use, much more capable than press camera designs.

Hyok Kim
19-May-2012, 02:01
But the thing is not the use of a 4x5" but the difficulties of shooting hand-held, wide open, no flash, or with longer lenses.


There is a bridge that crosses Gene Leahy Mall area that overlooks the snake path, rolling hills, where people like to hang out.

The bridge contains pedestrian sidewalk with walls but with enough opening for narrow angle lense. Most people who walk the path cannot really see who is up there on the bridge unless they actively look for it.

As a bonus for night shooting, path is right next to artificial lake/lazy river that reflects light from nearby office buildings, and street lights along the path.



I've already taken distant candid shots of people , using 35mm Rollei camera. In fact, I think I can even set up a tripod, with minimum height. The size of field camera wouldn't be an issue, but monorail would be since the sidewalk isn't really wide enough.




To have a closer candid shot, something in the 300mm range should be used, how can be focus nailed using thissetup wide open and hand held? Which ISO should be used to get an affordable shooting speed? Even Weegee used to use flash to save this issues.


Thanks for confirming about 300mm! That was my educated guess of what I thought I would need, but I needed advice from those with experience in LF. Fortunately, Meridian is triple fold bellow, and certainly long enough to handle 300mm.

I already talked about more than enough ambient light around the area. ISO, is where I would need some more experiment.


I already decided to stick to 100 for arehitectural photos. Maylbe less even. For street portraits at night, I am going to have to experiment.



And please, show your results!


I don't think my candid shoots would be allowed to be seen in this forum. They're a little too candid for polite company.

Hyok Kim
19-May-2012, 02:17
I think Bob is refering to Technika and Technikardan (=TK), two different systems.

The ones you refer (2000 and V) are the Technikas (Master Technika). It happens that I use a Technika; maybe a more advanced and complex camera than the Meridian, but based in the same concept.o

Wow! So you're a night owl, too. Which Technika version do you have? My understanding is that WA wise, only version V and above are really superior to Meridian. I cannot justify spending for V and 2000 for more of a theoretical advantage for my needs.



The Technikardan is a compact monorail designed for field use, much more capable than press camera designs.
Yes, I agree, and that's one of the reasons why I started this thread. I see monorail cameras for sale on ebay quite a bit, and a lot of times they go for a lot less than technical field cameras, even prestigious brands like Linhof, Sinar, and Arca-Swiss, and totl models to boot quite a bit less than Technika V, and definitely a lot less than 2000.

I had assumed that they would be lot more expensive than V, even 2000, of course I was very wrong. If I get a monorail, I would use it for architectural photos mainly, except in Winter time. In Omaha, winter gets very treacherous, windy, slick, a lot of ice and snow, and I don't want to fall and damage the camera or wind blowing the tripod to the sides. That's when I would use Meridian for architectural photos.

For street portrait, I plan to stick to Meridian, since I know a lot of places where I could wait and hide for the subjects to walk in to a 'trap'. Monorail would be a lot more difficult to hide.

jose angel
19-May-2012, 03:19
I`d start shooting with what you already have. I have many large format cameras; in 4x5", a Sinar monorail (at work), an all metal Canham and the Technika. The Sinar is capable of everything, the Canham of almost everything, designed to be extremely lightweight, and maybe the more "limited", the Technika. It is not the lightest, nor the more capable movement-wise but is the more practical and comfortable to use, so it`s the one I use to carry.

I think the Meridian is fine... if it holds a 65-75mm lens, that`s way more than enough. Personally, I rarely use anything wider than my Grandagon 75. In fact, my most used wide lens is a 110XL. As I mentioned above, you need to start shooting to know what works for you. I think LF takes a way more personal approach than other formats.

Brian Ellis
19-May-2012, 03:21
It's impossible for someone here to tell you whether you need a monorail for the exterior architectural photography that you do. You need a monorail if you find that your present camera lacks something you've found through experience that you need and that's available on some monorail camera that you like and can afford. But FWIW, I've been using field and technical cameras for years doing exterior architectural photographs and have never needed a monorail. My field cameras have all had front and back tilt and swing. When coupled with front rise, tilt, and swing that's all the movements I've needed. Whether that's all you need is up to you.

I'd agree with others that 4x5 isn't the best tool to use for outdoor portraits when you want to be inconspicuous. There are medium format and digital cameras available that will produce images of essentially the same technical quality as a 4x5 camera (unless you plan on printing larger than maybe 20x24) and that will be better suited to candid street portraits.

Bob Salomon
19-May-2012, 04:03
You're talking about TK 2000, at least V, right? If V, it's kinda out of my budget, if 2000, most definitely out of my budget. I was told Meridian could handle somewhere between 65 to 75mm, which is acceptable for outside architectural photo.

Linhof currently makes:
Linhof Master Technika Classic
Linhof Master Technika 3000

The V is a Technika that was replaced by the Master in the early 70s. The 2000 was a Master Technika replaced by the 3000 a few years ago. Both the 2000 and 3000 have an extreme wide angle focusing system built into the body to use lenses down to 35mm.

The TK 45s replaced the original TK a dozen or so years ago.

Hyok Kim
19-May-2012, 19:40
Personally, I rarely use anything wider than my Grandagon 75. In fact, my most used wide lens is a 110XL.

Thank you for that advice. Better to ask for advice from those with experience than coughing up a few hundred bucks for nothing to show for.

Hyok Kim
19-May-2012, 19:42
FWIW, I've been using field and technical cameras for years doing exterior architectural photographs and have never needed a monorail. My field cameras have all had front and back tilt and swing. When coupled with front rise, tilt, and swing that's all the movements I've needed. Whether that's all you need is up to you.

Thanks, I think I will pass on some of the deals I see.




I'd agree with others that 4x5 isn't the best tool to use for outdoor portraits when you want to be inconspicuous

I know that already.




There are medium format and digital cameras available that will produce images of essentially the same technical quality as a 4x5 camera (unless you plan on printing larger than maybe 20x24).

I will take that into consideration. Perhaps I should shop for Baby Press Camera. I know 2 x 3 format has limited choices, but I like B&W for portraits anyway.